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Old 09-17-2013, 10:04 PM   #151
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In Kansas, I wouldn't DARE go off road in an area I don't have permission. Land is owned by private citizens. It has cows, crops, or is used for hunting. Wheelin is generally bad for cows, crops and prey. If you want cows, crops, hunting or wheelin buy your own damn land or buddy up with someone that has it. DO NOT go onto some one else's land and expect them to be cool with it.

In the case of the OP he was on public land. If it is for public use, I would expect a rules posting somewhere. If there isn't a rules posting, then why in the heck is the land public? What is it being used for? Why does the government need it?

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Old 09-18-2013, 09:00 AM   #152
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In Kansas, I wouldn't DARE go off road in an area I don't have permission. Land is owned by private citizens. It has cows, crops, or is used for hunting. Wheelin is generally bad for cows, crops and prey. If you want cows, crops, hunting or wheelin buy your own damn land or buddy up with someone that has it. DO NOT go onto some one else's land and expect them to be cool with it.

In the case of the OP he was on public land. If it is for public use, I would expect a rules posting somewhere. If there isn't a rules posting, then why in the heck is the land public? What is it being used for? Why does the government need it?
Ok I know I will be flamed so here it goes. We live in a law positive society unlike Europe. Meaning that everything is legal unless there is a law or statute that deems it not legal. For instance if you don't see a sign that say no u turn u can make a u turn. In Europe the signs says what you can do. Too many times the authorities use Jedi mind tricks like " you should go do this elsewhere". What they did not say is that it is illegal to do it here. We are the public therefore it is our land. If the park ranger or other authorized body knows some reason why a road is closed it needs to be posted, period. Or it needs to have a sign that points you to where to get the information. The weak ass excuse of "we'll we had some issues of people littering" tells me the trail is open but they have had issues and are too lazy to go do their job.

If it were me I would fight it and then get a local jeep club to continue the fight and DEMAND a list of open an closed trails from that department. Go to the supervisor and ask for a list or where to get it and then ask who decides what trail is open or closed and for what purpose, when does this body meet and is it open to the public. As soon as he hears these questions you will see some back peddling. A lot of times the supervisor will close a trail but really not have the authority to do so.

If it were not for people fighting to keep the public trails open, the rubicon trail would have been closed years ago.

Just my 2 cents

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Old 09-18-2013, 09:08 AM   #153
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Thats actually false. Multiple states have laws regarding lethal force and threats to property. There are also instances where deadly force may be warranted based on the level of crime such. 1st degree burglary for example.

Edit: Disclaimer! i am in no way an expert on the law i was just recalling some of my criminal justice class conversations and penal law reviews. Please seek expert advice if you wish to know the ins and outs of defending yourself in any way.
Some states allow deadly force in defense of property but again, you have to make sure that a jury would reasonably believe that your property was indeed under threat. This is why a lot of people on the south border end up in jail because they shoot migrants crossing through their ranches. A guy Jeepin around and accidentally ending up on your property will NEVER EVER be bought by any jury as a threat, in any state.
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Old 09-18-2013, 09:11 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by cornfedksboy View Post
In Kansas, I wouldn't DARE go off road in an area I don't have permission. Land is owned by private citizens. It has cows, crops, or is used for hunting. Wheelin is generally bad for cows, crops and prey. If you want cows, crops, hunting or wheelin buy your own damn land or buddy up with someone that has it. DO NOT go onto some one else's land and expect them to be cool with it.

In the case of the OP he was on public land. If it is for public use, I would expect a rules posting somewhere. If there isn't a rules posting, then why in the heck is the land public? What is it being used for? Why does the government need it?
I have been in Kansas, Wyoming, Colorado, etc etc. Private land is usually easy to spot, as it has at the very least, a wire fence to keep the cattle in. States like Vermont are a PITA because public property sometimes crosses over private property (private property owners have an easement.) Some of the trails in Colorado actually cross private property (hence why they ask you be respectful and not speed or blast music) but again, those are usually marked.
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Old 09-18-2013, 05:15 PM   #155
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I am glad I don't live in NYC the west is the only place to be.
Intruder shot by homeowner faces charges | Local News - Home

Here the right person gets charged if they live to face trial.
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:21 PM   #156
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Im on the OPs side here.

Sometimes theres a fine line between "road" and "not road". Not all roads have signs

Ever drive down a dirt road and end up finding out it's someones driveway? I dont know what OP's trail looks like, but some of these look like legit roads. Some are obviously not. On the other hand, we have legit roads around here that i wouldnt dare touch with a car. Signed and everything.

Every powerline trail here is private property. Literally going through someones yard. I won't touch that. Most dont even have an actual trail, but they have gates in the fences for the right of ways...power companies dont use em a whole lot.

But STATE PROPERTY? Who OWNS THE STATE? The people do. If you're not tearing stuff up, if you're staying on the established trail, if you're not litering, if you're not tearing up environmentally sensitive areas, if you're not spinning your tires in mud holes making them bigger, whats the problem?
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Old 09-18-2013, 06:41 PM   #157
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Im on the OPs side here.

Sometimes theres a fine line between "road" and "not road". Not all roads have signs

Ever drive down a dirt road and end up finding out it's someones driveway? I dont know what OP's trail looks like, but some of these look like legit roads. Some are obviously not. On the other hand, we have legit roads around here that i wouldnt dare touch with a car. Signed and everything.

Every powerline trail here is private property. Literally going through someones yard. I won't touch that. Most dont even have an actual trail, but they have gates in the fences for the right of ways...power companies dont use em a whole lot.

But STATE PROPERTY? Who OWNS THE STATE? The people do. If you're not tearing stuff up, if you're staying on the established trail, if you're not litering, if you're not tearing up environmentally sensitive areas, if you're not spinning your tires in mud holes making them bigger, whats the problem?
I'm with you from the pic he posted (the one with rocks blocking the path which he said were not there) that sure as hell looks like a road to me, coupled with it being state land (public) as well as no signs, I'd say the ticket is bogus.
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Old 09-18-2013, 10:08 PM   #158
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Once I was in Arizona heading to a hike and my gps was wrong and told me to head down a power line to get to the hike. I figured that maybe this was one of the ways in. I slowed down came to a stop. Checked my phone and the nav to see if that seemed right. I admit looking back that I should have known it was not good than to put too much trust in technology when you are disoriented and frustrated trying to get somewhere.

So there's this little gate opening with a huge sign with an ATV with the circle with the diagonal line slash through it stating no atv's. I start to roll forward slowly and then see a tiny white sign saying no offroad travel a third of the size of a license plate!

I back out and a LEO was there from outta nowhere. He was saying how I crossed the line with part of my jeep and he could ticket me if he wanted. I said- wait you saw me pull in, roll up, read the sign and back out, and you'd still consider giving me a ticket for making the right call? He said yes. I explained the situation and said I was following GPS directions and offered to show him the phone. He declined and said I was lying. So I've got an out of state plate, had a route on a phone that was incorrect, and offered to prove I wasn't looking for trouble only a trail to hike on. He then said I know you would have gone forward if I wasn't here. I said I didn't see you at all and was only following a route I thought was correct. He said I got lucky and drive away.

I didn't get ticketed but it was crazy that he was so adamant I was in the wrong and wouldn't even look at the route clearly shown on my phone.

Sometimes LEO'S just don't give a damn and have you pegged as a trespasser not matter what. It's too bad because they probably have had plenty of wheelers go in there intentionally knowing not to and that counts against those of us who are trying our best to stay legal
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:03 PM   #159
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:12 PM   #160
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just tell them you mixed up your weekends and when they were opening the gamelands for 4x4s. check out this article that was posted in the PA local forums

PA Game Commission to Hold State Game Land Tours For Public - NewsChannel5.com | Nashville News, Weather & Sports
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Old 09-18-2013, 11:50 PM   #161
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Its the trespassers responsibility to know where he's at, but if he falls and gets hurt on your property he can sue you. So basically your inviting him to come on in and welcome him to your hard earned money.

The law should be: put signs up. And if some idiot comes on your property, either shoot him or have him arrested. If he gets hurt its his own fault an trespassing charges will be pressed against him.

If it comes to the point where I have to research the hell out of the land that I want to go on before I go for a walk or ride on it... I'm leaving this country....
Come to Canada man it's not like that here I wheel almost anywhere, I wheel from one part of town to the other, never got in trouble people don't even pay attention. I'm sure if I went and started tearing land up littering and acting like an ass I would get in trouble. People park there trucks and trailer loaded up with dirt bikes right beside an asphalt company's gravel pit offload and go have fun for the day and cops drive by the trucks all day. Not a word is said. If the asphalt company complained I'm sure they would do something but they don't seem to mind.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:06 AM   #162
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Come to Canada man it's not like that here I wheel almost anywhere, I wheel from one part of town to the other, never got in trouble people don't even pay attention. I'm sure if I went and started tearing land up littering and acting like an ass I would get in trouble. People park there trucks and trailer loaded up with dirt bikes right beside an asphalt company's gravel pit offload and go have fun for the day and cops drive by the trucks all day. Not a word is said. If the asphalt company complained I'm sure they would do something but they don't seem to mind.
That's how it used to be when I was young 20 years ago. Now the lawyers and those who sued the landowners cause they got hurt F'd it up for us all.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:40 AM   #163
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Come to Canada man it's not like that here I wheel almost anywhere, I wheel from one part of town to the other, never got in trouble people don't even pay attention. I'm sure if I went and started tearing land up littering and acting like an ass I would get in trouble. People park there trucks and trailer loaded up with dirt bikes right beside an asphalt company's gravel pit offload and go have fun for the day and cops drive by the trucks all day. Not a word is said. If the asphalt company complained I'm sure they would do something but they don't seem to mind.
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That's how it used to be when I was young 20 years ago. Now the lawyers and those who sued the landowners cause they got hurt F'd it up for us all.
Exactly. That's how it was.

Nowadays everything is all political and everyone worries about getting sued

I grew up in a place where you could ride a bike one someone's backyard and not get yelled or shot at. Nowadays everyone litters and generally doesn't give a crap about the land they spend their time on....

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