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Old 01-01-2013, 04:30 PM   #31
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Well reading this makes me feel better. I thought it was the 3.21 gears that were the culprit when wheeling. My 2010 Rubicon definately made me look like a better driver. I could also feel the hill assist holding me back sometimes.

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Old 01-02-2013, 11:57 AM   #32
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My 2012 6sp has had this same hesitation since new. It not only hesitate it will also stall, but it's slightly different than a typical stall. It will be hesitating & I will do the standard clutch slip to keep it going but then it will do start a erractic idle going from less than 100 rpm to around 500. It will do this for about 5-6 cycles then completly die. Usually this JK has been a quick start even when cold outside, but after one of these stalls it will take 2-3 tries to get it going. Needless to say his can be a pucker if it does it when pulling out to join traffic or cross a road. The hesitation ior stalls don't seem to have any consistency to it, warm, cold, dry or wet, on or off road. The hesistation does seem more noticable since putting on my 255/85r16 tires (3.21), but no change in the stalls (less than 1% of the time). I haven't brought this up to the dealership since it just doesn't happen very often & figure that they would equate the hesistation to the 33's with the 3.21's.

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Old 01-02-2013, 03:39 PM   #33
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Are folks really advising to start off in 1st without giving the jeep any gas, and then once moving start giving it gas? That doesn't sound like it would go well. I can get my jeep moving with no gas, sure, by just letting the clutch get to the friction point but if I keep letting off the clutch and don't give it any gas I feel like the jeep will lurch forward and then stall. I know because I accidentally dropped the clutch while still in first in a parking spot one day after starting my jeep and I thought I was going to drive through a liquor store window. I'll give it a try tonight on my way home.

I've never had this much trouble with a manual either. 2012 w 3.73s. 5500 miles in and I still stall from time to time, but most of the times my starts from stop into 1st gear are far from smooth. That's my biggest gripe....I can't get a smooth take-off, and I've been trying feathering things differently every which way from sunday to no avail. And I usually pick up "feel" type things very easily.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:05 PM   #34
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Sorry to bump this thread but I have about 350 miles on a brand new 13 JKUR 6 speed. Never even drove the auto because for me it is all about feel and fun in driving. This drive by wire or at least the delay the computer has programmed into the throttle response curve has me steaming. You can not feather the throttle at the engagement point at all to fitness the vehicle. Half of the issue for me is also that revs will not drop so its hard in 1st 2hi to negotiate any obstacle from a standstill - popping over a curb for example.

I love manual vehicles and got the Rubi to replace a project 1984 FJ60 with a 4 speed and probably 50 horsepower at the rear wheels. Needless to say that engine will lug way down but because the throttle body does exactly what my damn foot tells it I can drive it anywhere over anything without so much as a hint of clutch burn. The Rubi in 4lo is amazing, I just wish I didn't have to go there to wheel.

Sorry for the long rant I just know what others are feeling with the vague numb throttle clutch feel. It's less than rewarding for a driving enthusiast...

Sprint booster going in tomorrow but I wish they could crack the code on the new computers to override all the horrible fuel efficiency programming.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:39 AM   #35
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Hey Fellas..... I have this same issue on my 2012 JKU Sport 6spd, w/3.73's and 33" tires. Try this an see if you see any difference in the feel of the gas pedal respons/clutch engage. Start your jeep then hold the TCS button down until the dash light goes out. This will take approx 15-20 seconds. I'm not sure what it does but it makes driving around town MUCH more enjoyable. I have not found anything in print that describes this procedure or what it actually does but it does something. I went out to some gravel roads to test a few things and this is what I found. With the TCS on (no light on dash) little to no wheel spin. with TCS off (2wd, TCS light on) wheel spin as much as you want with a bit better throttle response. Hold TCS button for 15-20 seconds (light on dash comes on then goes off) little to no wheel spin but much better throttle response. In the last scenario, it appears that all TCS functions are working but throttle response is vastly improved.

Let me know what you find on your ride......

Dave
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Old 03-04-2013, 07:48 PM   #36
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I also am glad to see that I'm not the only experienced manual trans driver stalling his new wrangler. The throttle response is designed to smooth out rough terrain driving, but I also have stalled this thing more than any other. You can see the intended behavior of this when you go down a smooth road at a steady speed and hit the throttle a couple of times fast and there is no reaction.
I think the hill holder makes it worse, I do better if I turn down the radio at stop lights so I can listen to the engine. Will stay tuned to this thread to hear if anyone else has the solution.
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Old 03-04-2013, 08:34 PM   #37
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Well, I'll add to the "not just me" voices here. Three of my vehicles are manuals and I've mostly driven manuals for close to 50 years, including lotsa high performance and drag cars. This '13 JKUL Freedom w 3.73's takes the cake for crappy clutch take up and throttle response. I do love this Jeep, but after 10 weeks of ownership the drivability of this 6 spd is not what I wanted. What is the Sprint Booster. Guess I can search it and find out. A solution is def in order as I've killed it in intersections several times and feel like a fool.......which pisses me off.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:25 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
With my superchips tune my 07 doesn't lug under under 2K even with 35's.
I can cruise at 1700 easily without lugging.
The sprintbooster/SC combo make drivability 10x better.

Driving a Tj for 10 years, the step up to a JK was a smack in the face.
First mod was the sprintbooster. The tune was more noticeable when I moved up to 35's.

I know the OP posted about his 12 but both the 3.8/3.6 suffer at lower rpms.
Could be a dumb question but what is this sprintbooster mod everyones talking about?
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:36 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeQ9

Could be a dumb question but what is this sprintbooster mod everyones talking about?
It connects under the gas pedal to the connector and decreases the time the signal takes to reach the PCM.

Removes the lag you feel in the gas pedal.
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:13 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
It connects under the gas pedal to the connector and decreases the time the signal takes to reach the PCM.

Removes the lag you feel in the gas pedal.
Gotchya. Whats that run ya?
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Old 03-05-2013, 09:37 PM   #41
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Old 03-07-2013, 04:41 PM   #42
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I can honestly state.. After my ring and pinion regear I have zero lag..hesitation.. None. All gone. Much better
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:54 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by cousineddie View Post
Hey Fellas..... I have this same issue on my 2012 JKU Sport 6spd, w/3.73's and 33" tires. Try this an see if you see any difference in the feel of the gas pedal respons/clutch engage. Start your jeep then hold the TCS button down until the dash light goes out. This will take approx 15-20 seconds. I'm not sure what it does but it makes driving around town MUCH more enjoyable. I have not found anything in print that describes this procedure or what it actually does but it does something. I went out to some gravel roads to test a few things and this is what I found. With the TCS on (no light on dash) little to no wheel spin. with TCS off (2wd, TCS light on) wheel spin as much as you want with a bit better throttle response. Hold TCS button for 15-20 seconds (light on dash comes on then goes off) little to no wheel spin but much better throttle response. In the last scenario, it appears that all TCS functions are working but throttle response is vastly improved.

Let me know what you find on your ride......

Dave
Hey Cousing Eddie, Sorry for the delayed response. I tried your traction control hold technique this morning and it might be that I havent drivent he rig in 5 days but wow - Somehting has changed witht he throttle mapping and response... How did you think of trying this? I wonder if it gets rid of the torque monitiring that is built into the system? It must reset to the original setting everytime it is shut off?

Another thing I noticed when wheeling for the first time in this 13' rubi two weeks ago that when in 4hi the throttle response and ability to lug lower seemed improved as well. I was idling through some rough rutted out terrain where in 2 hi on pavement and a 1% slope it dies...

I have decided to hold off on installing the Sprintbooster until I have about 1500 miles on the odometer because there are some definite changes going on through the break in.

I spoke to Diablo sport last week and they have broken the code on the 11' and 12' computers but don't have a tune for the 13' (12' is out) yet so it is coming. I think this will be the best way to adjust the throttle response as it gets rid of the lag and torque monitoring in the computer itself where the sprintbooster simply "accelerates" the signal to the computer. I still feel this would have a great effect I would just rather nip the issue at the source... And they are the ones that mentioned there was some sort of torque monitoring in the computer which is the lag you feel when shifting take up ect. It must be designed to smooth out the power delivery but I also suspect it is designed to save the powertrain for the 5 year 100K warranty.

If all of this interference was out of the way I suspect this engine and jeep would be a rocket ship...
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Old 03-19-2013, 01:51 PM   #44
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Great Thread..............

But why can't our dealers lead us out of these wildernesses????? Jees!
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:02 PM   #45
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After driving it back to back to lunch and trying it with and without the TC hold setting there does seem to be a definite difference... especially in power delivery lag between 1st and 2nd gear shift and overall power delivery. I wonder if there is some sort of Sport setting left over from the Grand Cherokee Pentastar Programming that is somehow accesed via this?
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Old 03-19-2013, 05:05 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKWrangler2012 View Post
I can honestly state.. After my ring and pinion regear I have zero lag..hesitation.. None. All gone. Much better
What gears did you install?
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Old 03-19-2013, 09:52 PM   #47
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Interesting. Right after I got my 2012 (Auto, 3.73), I experienced the hesitation issue. It went away after a couple thousand miles were on the odometer so I wrote it off as something weird during break-in. It was fine all through the winter, but now that it's started to warm up a bit (for the past couple weeks), I've noticed it again happening again. It seems to disappear after the first few stop sights/traffic lights that I stop at.

I was thinking that it was perhaps because the transmission wasn't warmed up, because it only seems to happen in the mornings when I'm heading out for the day after the Jeep has been sitting all night. I don't notice it when I'm heading home in the afternoon after the Jeep has been sitting all day. I also can't explain why it didn't do it during the coldest part of the winter.

But since the folks with manual transmissions are also experiencing this problem, it's likely not the transmission. And my HSA has been turned off for months. I'm going to have to try the ESC button 20-second-hold to see if it actually changes anything.
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Old 03-19-2013, 11:28 PM   #48
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Cool It's one of the settings on the EVIC

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtybiketrash View Post
If you play with it you can get a feel for the timing of when it will disengage the brake. Is there an easy way to shut-off the hill assist?
It's one of the settings on the EVIC. You can turn it off with the steering wheel menu. You have to be stopped to adjust this setting. I think the prompt is "Hill Assist".

I like it personally. Noticed it the first time today while waiting for a red light on a steep hill. You don't get that rolling back into the guy behind you sensation!

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Old 03-19-2013, 11:34 PM   #49
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Funny enough...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuruYaekob View Post
I don't get what your saying?

Push clutch to floor
let it all the way out? (this would kill it)
then press gas?

I'm lost
Like others here I have found the six speed a challenge. I ride a Harley 30,000 miles a year and never stall it. I've driven stick all my life and have maybe stalled a hard dozen times in my life prior to the Rubi.

I've stalled it six times this week! Mostly playing in deep snow over the door sills in 4 lo! The clutch throttle interface is definitely an issue trying to crawl through crap.

I tried something yesterday that I used to do teaching our kids to drive my previous Jett'as when they were having gas-clutch synch issues.

If you keep your foot off the gas and feather the clutch out gently,there is enough torque to get moving without slipping the clutch. I can go all the way to sixth gear in mine without touching the gas pedal. It's not as good as a diesel for this, but almost!

I notice the lag when I use the gas with the clutch. Am going to try the TC trick earlier in the thread tomorrow. There's definitely a computer involved somewhere and if this was an airplane I'd say the fly by wire is not anticipating the pilot's control inputs properly.
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Old 03-20-2013, 09:59 AM   #50
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I am glad that I am not the only one having trouble with the newer 6 speed. I upgraded from a 06 TJ with a six speed and never had the troubles that I am having now.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:08 PM   #51
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The most difficult part of the drive by wire system is the timing. There is a slight delay from when you hit the gas, to the engine response. Practice getting this down by sitting idle in neutral and revving your engine to different RPMs. I have found it is near impossible to rev to 1800 rpms and hold it steady as once the drive by wire engages it is very sensitive. However, doing this made me a much better driver of this particular manual transmission. I hit the gas and wait a split second for the engine to rev to 1200+ before engaging the clutch slowly. The clutch pedal does engage quick, so having feel for that is also important.

Just keep in mind the throttle delay you are getting from the electronic system. This also applies to upshifting as it takes slightly longer than you'd expect for the engine to drop into the sweet spot for the next gear. Pay attention to the tachometer response relative to your gas pedal inputs--it helped me to learn this Jeep fairly quickly.

At this point, I drive the Jeep as well as any other manual I have owned.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:20 PM   #52
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I finally tried the trick stated above about just letting the clutch out on flat ground and not touching the throttle and it is absolutely true, the computer keeps it from stalling and the engine will rev's on its own without hesitation.
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:37 PM   #53
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Now for another little trick for you boys and girls that have learned to shift your transfer case while the JEEP is standing still( so you can pay attention to your tach with out having to watch where you are going). Watch your tach and slip the JEEP into 4L without muscling it and notice that the engine will pick up about 250 to 300 RPM. This is where the 4:1 TC and deep gearing( I have 5.38's) comes in to play when crawling thru technical stuff. Just figure out which gear you need for optimum power and wheel speed ( this comes from experience), slip the tranny into that gear and ease the clutch out and about all you need to do is watch your spotter and let the JEEP do the hard stuff!! Drive by wire rocks!!!!!
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Old 03-20-2013, 03:25 PM   #54
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Keep in mind this transmission was sourced from Mercedes. Ya'll are trying to drive it like a Jeep, not an expensive German sedan...
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Old 04-02-2013, 05:06 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by njskater59 View Post
HSA Off

If you wish to turn off the HSA system, follow this procedure:
1. Start with the engine off and vehicle in PARK (auto- matic transmission) or NEUTRAL with clutch out (manual transmission) with wheels straight. Apply park- ing brake on manual transmission vehicle.
2. Start the engine.
3. With the engine running, the brake applied, and the clutch out, rotate the steering wheel 180° counterclock- wise from center.
4. Press the ESC OFF switch four times within twenty seconds.
5. Rotate the steering wheel 360° clockwise (180° clock- wise from center).
6. Cycle ignition switch OFF then ON.
7. If the sequence was completed properly, the “ESC Activation/Malfunction Indicator Light” will blink sev- eral times to confirm HSA is off.
Steps 1-7 must be completed within 90 seconds to turn off HSA. Repeat steps 1-7 to re-enable HSA functionality.
Where did you get this information from?
Is there any way to fully disable ESC?
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:47 PM   #56
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Very information thread, thanks folks for sharing.

I just ordered my first Jeep, a Rubicon 10A, couple weeks ago. I have been driving stick shift for almost thirty years, yet I was scared by this hesitation you folks were talking about.

While I plan to have some off-roading in the weekends, I would be using the JK to commute to work in weekdays.

Is there any sure way to start the JK without stalling?

- From stand, shift into 1st, let out the clutch without touching throttle, once the clutch fully disengaged and JK goes forward, step on the throttle?

- What about starting with 2nd gear? Would it bypass the hesitation problem?

- On slopes, does it mean the HSA will keep the brake engaged for full 3 seconds even if I manage to get the JK going in less than 3 seconds?

- Any other tips on having a stall-free daily driving?

Thanks in advance, your inputs will help me decide if I would want to change my order from manual to auto.

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Old 04-02-2013, 07:09 PM   #57
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i don't know.. but i caught myself doing it with a conscious mind lol
For me, a conscious mind is the worst thing to have while shifting! My timing has always been poor if I actually think about it and time it by looking at the rpm.
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:43 PM   #58
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Keep in mind this transmission was sourced from Mercedes. Ya'll are trying to drive it like a Jeep, not an expensive German sedan...
Meaning what? LOL
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:55 PM   #59
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Well I'm not sure if its already been said but the HSA is directly related to YOUR brake pressure... so if your pressing hard on the brake, the hsa will hold it still much stronger than if your were just barely keeping yourself from rolling... Took me about a week to figure that out on my new jeep.. I come to a stop then release as much as I think I possibly can, and no longer have the very tough starts. Hope this helps.
Edit: Spelling ugh..
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:59 PM   #60
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I've also been timing the hsa... just move slowly to the gas instead of jumping straight to it and u won't even notice it anymore

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