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Old 11-04-2013, 10:01 PM   #1
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Exclamation I checked my oil. There was none.zero.empty

I've read the threads. But sounds like its too late. Jeep Dealership wants $7,000. Seven Thousand Dollars. I wish I would have read the threads earlier. For those of you that have this problem please tell me what you did. I just bought my new to me JKU a few months ago, after someone totaled my TJ, I'm staying strong. Please keep reading and help a Jeeper.
There was a poll with "oil burning" & 40% responding with "Yes" burning oil too quickly. This has to be a big issue & I'm hoping someone can offer suggestions to what they did - after their engine was dry of oil. My oil was changed LESS than 3,000 miles ago in August and it was bone dry last week. Now the Jeep Dealership wants to replace the entire engine. Saying that the Short block is discontinued and they can only put in the Large Block - I might have that backwards. Point being, they don't want to rebuild it. There is ticking sound under 3,000 RPMs then a slight knocking sound above 3K. The jeep runs, I never noticed oil leaking, it wasn't smelling, wasn't running hot, no smoke, nothing.
They did not drop the engine and take a hard look at the engine they just hooked it up and came to a conclusion bc they have come across this a few times. Just said this is typical with the Jeep and they recommend replacing the engine. They said a "temporary fix would be to change the crankshaft however its not recommended and customers always come back" They were really pushing me to purchase the new engine with the warranty and wouldn't stop pushing me about it. I'm not in the position to make this move. they won't offer to rebuild bc my engine is "discontinued". And probably wouldn't offer anyway.
I'm taking my Jeep to a mechanic tomorrow where a family member of mine has taken cars to for 20 years (should have done that last week) but its 45 min away. Any recommendations, thoughts, ideas? What other fixes it could be? What others have done with similar issues? Thoughts on what to tell the mechanic? I'm sure I'll hear criticism from a few but I'm already down and looking for real suggestions.

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Old 11-04-2013, 10:02 PM   #2
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Sue in small claims court and it will be fixed quickly.

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Old 11-04-2013, 10:09 PM   #3
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Sue in small claims court and it will be fixed quickly.
Sue for what exactly? This wasn't a product of dealer negligence. No one emptied his oil and didnt refill it, it was burned up

As far as a fix, don't take it to that dealer. They haven't given you all of your options. I'm assuming you have the 3.8? Being that it is a modular engine, there are hundreds of thousands of these in junkyards. If you wanted to fix it cheaper you could get one of those. Like they said, I wouldn't just throw a new crank in there. You said you have a knock so your head is pretty much toast too.

I believe you mean the short block is discontinued so they want to put in a long block which is the short block with the new head. That would basically be a brand new engine which would be nice, however do you want to/have the ability to spend that kind of money?
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:20 PM   #4
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I checked my oil. There was none.zero.empty
I know this won't solve the problem but I'm curious. Wasn't there any warning indicator on the IP that alerted you to a possible low oil pressure problem when the oil level decreased to a certain point?

I don't want my wife to do something similar to her new Jeep and I don't check the fluid levels every week. I rely on her to tell me when something is wrong with it.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:22 PM   #5
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In this case, the dealership might not be the best option.
Engines can be rebuilt. But would yours be worth it, or just replace it?
How much oil does she burn?! That's insane
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:28 PM   #6
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Did the oil light come on? If it did not then there was oil flowing thru the pump/filter. It could of been low enough where the dip stick did not show oil but that does not mean " bone dry".

Ho get another opinion on engine. It's easy and safe for dealer to say replace engine.

Put fresh oil change, drive 500 or so miles then take a oil sole for analysis. Any caterpillar or heavy equipment shop can do it for about $25. The analysis will without question tell you the health of your engine. Oil analysis places do this for million dollar equipment, they have this science down to an art. They will give you proof if your engine is healthy, struggling or on borrowed time.


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Old 11-04-2013, 10:30 PM   #7
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Damm spell checker. **** oil sample*** was the word I was shooting for.


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Old 11-04-2013, 10:35 PM   #8
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I agree with the put fresh oil in it and see how it works for a while and have it analyzed

Do JK's have low oil lights? All of my old cars had them but I've never seen the light in my jk(3.8l too) although I've never really ran it low enough
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:45 PM   #9
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do your self a favor and throw a motorcraft oil filter on it when you put your oil in. It will take care a lot of engine noise and keeps the oil up in it on start up. No offense to Chrysler, but their mopar filters suck on the 3.8. I learned this little trick on my 07 rubi. That is a lot of oil to burn that quick. There should of been a blue cloud around your jeep when it was running, or giant puddles under it. FL400s I believe the filter number is. Try it you will be surprised how much quieter the engine is at start up.
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Old 11-04-2013, 10:56 PM   #10
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Depends where you got it serviced. If they did it, you may be able to work that angle. If not them, it would depend who did. I had to replace an engine in a Subaru years ago and learned that their dealers had separate insurance that covered issues from service. Can they say that they put in the required amount? Even non car people can see when you are burning that much oil so it is reasonable to think they did not refill properly.

Good luck, from experience I know this will be a tough time.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:01 PM   #11
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If it runs drive it. The dealer doesn't want to install or warrant a junkyard/salvage motor. A private garage will install one (might be ~ 2K) from LKQ or similar (out of a lower mileage wrecked JK). Nothing wrong with going this route.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:06 PM   #12
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Do yourself a favour and put a bottle of Lucas oil stabilizer in it. Yes, it's a bandaid, and not a permanent solution by any means. It will buy you time though, to find a good used engine.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:12 PM   #13
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Im not a mechanic but i cant be the only one thinking that the dash would light up like a christmas tree am i?
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:19 PM   #14
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The oil light comes on when it's to late....check your oil regularly.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:21 PM   #15
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Im not a mechanic but i cant be the only one thinking that the dash would light up like a christmas tree am i?
When my Subaru exploded I asked the same question. Their indicator light would only come on if and when there was no oil left. Which would be right after it launches a rod in the case of my car.
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Old 11-04-2013, 11:34 PM   #16
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My wife's 05 Town and county mini van has a 3.8 and after 30K mikes it was using oil. I took it to the dealership and was told it was the pcv
valve. They would not replace it because if it used under 2 quarts in 3000 miles it was within factory specs. If you are down more than 2 quarts it will not even show on the stick. I now add 1/2 quart every 1000 miles.
It now has 70K miles on it. The pcv valve has always been a problem on the 3.8. Now I have 2010 JK with 3.8 40K miles and no oil loss at all.
(PCV valve = Positive crank case vent = pollution control crud)
PCV valve vents the crank case back into the top of the motor to be burnt off. This is my understanding anyway. correct me if I am wrong.

If it burnt off 5 quarts in 3000 miles this would be out of factory spec and lead to the demise of the motor. warranty?
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:11 AM   #17
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Lots of threads in here on this already, do yourself a big favor and grab a beer and sandwich and sit down for a long read.

Use the search function and look up -

PCV
crankshaft
oil leak

Does it still run? If it does, I'd put oil in it and drive it awhile, keeping an eye on the level. Send a sample for an oil test and see how bad it looks. If it keeps running, you may get lucky for awhile at least.
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Old 11-05-2013, 12:34 AM   #18
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Lots of threads in here on this already, do yourself a big favor and grab a beer and sandwich and sit down for a long read.

.
First of all, I am sorry for this expensive lesson that you have just learned!

I would ask myself, why didn't I check my oil level once a week, or at least at gas fill ups?
This is a basic responsibility of ownership of any vehicle.

If I did this, then I would take responsibility for my own actions, learn from my mistake, and not try to blame somebody else!

Now, the only thing worse than this would be, to have a back alley shop fix it, and here we go again. So make sure that you have a reputable shop make the repairs, and that you receive warranty on the work performed!

After this, you will probably need several BEERS..........
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:05 AM   #19
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Sue for what exactly? This wasn't a product of dealer negligence. No one emptied his oil and didn't refill it, it was burned up...

Precisely.

Take the Jeep to several quality independent garages and see what they charge for purchase and installation of a re-manufactured engine. It will be markedly less than $7,000.

Contact a quality engine re-manufacturer and see what their customer direct cost is for an engine. If your block is burned up, you'll have to eat the core charge, but it will be far less than that dealer's pricing. If you can find an ASE certified Master tech who wrenches on their spare time, you can save cash by buying a quality re-manufactured engine and paying cash to the tech to install it for you.
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:19 AM   #20
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My oil was changed LESS than 3,000 miles ago in August and it was bone dry last week.

Please don't tell me you drove nearly 3000 miles without checking your engine oil level.
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Old 11-05-2013, 01:44 AM   #21
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Precisely.

Take the Jeep to several quality independent garages and see what they charge for purchase and installation of a re-manufactured engine. It will be markedly less than $7,000.

Contact a quality engine re-manufacturer and see what their customer direct cost is for an engine. If your block is burned up, you'll have to eat the core charge, but it will be far less than that dealer's pricing. If you can find an ASE certified Master tech who wrenches on their spare time, you can save cash by buying a quality re-manufactured engine and paying cash to the tech to install it for you.
Agreed. I forgot to put that in there. You should be able to source a used engine, even a rebuilt for a lot less than $7k. A new engine with a warranty and dealer install - I can see that price.

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Old 11-05-2013, 01:46 AM   #22
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First of all, I am sorry for this expensive lesson that you have just learned!

I would ask myself, why didn't I check my oil level once a week, or at least at gas fill ups?
This is a basic responsibility of ownership of any vehicle.

If I did this, then I would take responsibility for my own actions, learn from my mistake, and not try to blame somebody else!

Now, the only thing worse than this would be, to have a back alley shop fix it, and here we go again. So make sure that you have a reputable shop make the repairs, and that you receive warranty on the work performed!

After this, you will probably need several BEERS..........
I think you've had your limit... Sir, how many beers have you had tonight?

Sir, please spell the alphabet backwards or you're going to jail.

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Old 11-05-2013, 02:02 AM   #23
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Sorry to say but if the beers don't leave regret, the final bill will.
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Old 11-05-2013, 05:23 AM   #24
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I think you've had your limit... Sir, how many beers have you had tonight?

Sir, please spell the alphabet backwards or you're going to jail.

.
Old Dogger is correct. Even the owners manual tells you to check your fluid levels. Oil and coolant are the 2 most important fluids in any engine. If you choose not to check them and the engine dies, it's your own fault. Basic maintenance. Less than 2 minutes per week and the op's engine would be fine. Maybe it did have a problem, but checking would have alerted the owner to the issue without wrecking the engine.

Not only that but the OP admitted to reading threads about jeeps burning oil. Did this not set alarm bells off?

One reply said to sue. For what?

That is what is wrong with the world today. Even if it is our own stupidity, we want to blame someone else.
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Old 11-05-2013, 06:33 AM   #25
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Old Dogger is correct. Even the owners manual tells you to check your fluid levels. Oil and coolant are the 2 most important fluids in any engine. If you choose not to check them and the engine dies, it's your own fault. Basic maintenance. Less than 2 minutes per week and the op's engine would be fine. Maybe it did have a problem, but checking would have alerted the owner to the issue without wrecking the engine.

Not only that but the OP admitted to reading threads about jeeps burning oil. Did this not set alarm bells off?

One reply said to sue. For what?

That is what is wrong with the world today. Even if it is our own stupidity, we want to blame someone else.
Not questioning responsibility or Old Dogger's commentary. I'm trying to figure out who lost their motor... Lusus? or RedGdawg?



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Old 11-05-2013, 07:07 AM   #26
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Wow, that's too bad it really is. The bottom line is they'll blame you for not checking the oil, then say engines use oil as much as a qt/500 miles, and they'll be off the hook if it goes to court. It might be worth a try though, but be prepared to lose.

I'd get some compression readings, and go from there. The oil use could be from bad valve stem seals an easy fix if no damage was done to the rings, and bearings, or it could be from one of the Mexican built 3.8 engines [more info is needed] with the rings installed upside down. Now if that's the case you might have a claim if you have a savvy lawyer, and can lead him in the direction that gets him the info needed to prove that Chrysler had a batch of bad 3.8L engines. It might be a shot.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:15 AM   #27
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I appreciate the comments questioning my advice for suit in small claims court. I should explain.
A relatively new engine with catastrophic failure is generally regarded as a manufacturing defect. Even though I was also taught to check oil weekly, total oil loss in 2000-3000 miles is not acceptable in cars post 1990.
In addition, other documented cases of total oil loss point more to a manufacturing defect - probably limited - than a few people committing some sort of terrible mistake by not checking their oil.
Manufacturers are regulated under specific laws protecting the consumers against these defects - e.g. recent massive Toyota recalls.

I know I'm going to take more flak for these comments, but I'm not a fan of lawsuits - I hate them, but sometimes big entities (like car companies) only take the "little guy/gal" seriously when a court sends them a letter.

And taking responsibility - I am a big proponent - because a big percentage of my check goes to Uncle Sam, who gives it away to people without responsibility.
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Old 11-05-2013, 07:40 AM   #28
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A lawyer, for a $7,000 engine, or any other relatively small claim (meaning under about $15K) for that matter? I don't think so. Unless it's an attorney fee case (meaning that there is a contract or statute providing that the prevailing party gets legal fees paid, not very often the case), the legal bill would gobble up most, if not all, of the recovery......in the unlikely event that there was a recovery. In actuality, it'd more likely be throwing good money after bad. Facts suck sometimes, and they definitely do here.

I'm old school(, both legally and) mechanically. I check my oil every time I fill up. I am tempted not to, rarely find the oil level down in any of my vehicles anymore, but once in a while it happens......
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:19 AM   #29
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Had a Camry that was using a bit of oil. Toyota says one quart every 1000 miles is acceptable. I can't imagine Mopar would be any more strict.
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Old 11-05-2013, 08:19 AM   #30
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I think you've had your limit... Sir, how many beers have you had tonight?

Sir, please spell the alphabet backwards or you're going to jail.

.
I can't do that sober!

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