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I need an adult

3K views 39 replies 17 participants last post by  jordang2 
#1 ·
Hey all,

I've learned a lot from you all the past few weeks as I've been doing my research on a buy and build. I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on a Rubicon, and I want to make sure my sense of direction is solid. I'm but a boy amongst men when it comes to the JK though, and that's why I need an adult to make sure I'm on track here... Let me first cover many of the common questions that you all seem to ask on these guidance posts. (First post, by the way).

This will be a daily driver/weekend warrior vehicle. I am not a dedicated 4X4 enthusiast, so to speak, and this build is not designed to be Moab bound. However, my adventure streak leads me to remote areas often, including the 300,000 acre Menominee Indian reservation, which has only three roads. I am looking to use this vehicle to access Backcountry areas on the reservation and elsewhere that I cannot access in my current vehicle, out of cell service, to explore, hunt, fish, camp, and just generally explore. The terrain is rough... Muddy, with a lot of fallen timber, and some steep, rocky sections. I've camped out here in bear country with my Glock 20 in a hammock for 10 days, and it's the most amazing place I've ever been. And I've only scratched the surface of it... That's where this rig comes in. It's designed around being my key to the Backcountry.

Essentially, I need a trail capable rig that can also limp through the arduous demands of a non-freeway, 5 days a week, 7 mile round trip work commute. :)

So the Jeep I'm eye balling right now is a 2013 Rubicon with manual transmission. Since the manual trans JKUR's come with 4:10 gears, most of the feedback points to holding off on a regear for now. I'm cool with that. I decided on an all terrain tire since I have to worry about snow and street as well with this rig, and my tire guy sold me on the BFG 35x12.50 KO2 with some 17x9 wheels with 4.5 inches of backspacing and a -12 offset. I'm looking at a rock krawler lift, although my "I need an adult" moment has me wondering what the best size is, since the KO2's run a little smaller than some 35's. 2.5-3.5 is my dilemma... Do I want lower clearance and possible need for bump stops, or higher clearance and extra strain on the driveshaft? I don't see myself itching for 37's later on, but how many of you said that? My brain hurts from all this research, but it's also exciting because it's getting close!

There will be many more mods to come, but for now I just want to iron out my core needs. Also, I realize I could have continued lurking and researching, but you all seem like a friendly bunch so I figured it was time to reach out...

RANT. OVER.

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#2 ·
@jordang2 - I just went through this dilemma, and same tires here (assuming load rating E). I'd recommend 2.5" lift, because without heavy bumpers and armor, it's probably going to be more like 3-3.25" anyway. Since I don't know what your kit comes with, make sure it has the following:

Springs (duh)
Shocks (again, duh)
Bump Stops (I'll stop being obvious soon)
Either - Control arms or Control arm geometry brackets to keep caster angle set proper
Either - Adjustable rear track bar or rear track bar bracket (to keep rear axle centered)
Either - Adjustable front track bar or front track bar bracket (to keep front axle centered)
12.25" front sway bar links
Either - Longer brake lines or brake line drop brackets

You'll also need a ProCal or other tuner to adapt tire size and keep your speedometer/odometer correct with the size-up of tires.

Do yourself a favor now and get LED headlights, foglights, and tail lights. You'll thank me if you do a side-by-side comparo of the single-AA-battery-flashlight stock headlights vs real LED output.

Best of luck, and have fun Jeeping out there!
O_E
 
#3 ·
The stock rubicon will do amazing things off-road. Suggest you see if it meets your off-road needs before going the lift route, especially since this will be a daily commuter as well. Lift kits are extremely well engineered these days but you can't fool physics. Bigger tires and lifts will degrade on-road performance and MPG. Food for thought. Love that you want a manual trans! Long live manuals!!
 
#4 ·
I couldn't agree more. Unless you just want a lifted, big-ass-tire Jeep (with which there is nothing in the world wrong; just admit it to yourself), the chances of you needing more capability than a box-stock 4.10 6M Rubicon offers are pretty darn slim.

Me? I'd drive the Rubicon as is, exactly as you wish to use it. If some day you encounter an obstacle that you cannot negotiate with your Rubicon, and you (with your now better-developed sense of the physics and mechanics of off-roading) ascertain that "just another two inches of tire and I'd have been able to make it", then add the 2" of tire at that point.

On the other hand, if you like the looks of a JK with smallish-35s and a lift, go for it. I would definitely put a 2.5 on. That will keep CG as low as possible. If you decide to upsize in the future, you can go as far as 37s if you replace the fenders with Flatties.
 
#5 ·
Sounds close to what I use my JKU Sahara for. In the fall/winter, we hunt a 170,000 acre Federal recreation area, often staying overnight. Although it has a few paved roads, we're mostly on forest service roads, old logging timber trails, etc...
I have no lift and stock sized 32" Goodyear Duratracs (I don't recommend the load range 'C' in these as I've punctured 2 sidewalls). We carry an axe, chainsaw and shovel and haven't gotten hopelessly stuck yet.
I carry printed, laminated detailed maps of the area and a portable CB radio tuned to the local Ranger channel. We often run across downed trees and have to ask permission to remove them, which the Rangers really appreciate as it keeps them from having to do it.
Not sure about where you are, but if they catch you 'off-road' (not designated trails) and tearing up the area, it's about a $10,000 fine and possible jail time.
 
#6 ·
From the BF Goodrich website KO2 285/70/17/E are showing a rim width of 7.5 - 9" and a diameter of 32.7" The stock KM2 have a diameter of 32.1" I think they should be OK on the stock wheels but adding a 1" level kit to the front may be all you need. Beyond that I agree with the others, LED lighting is a must and I think you will be very surprised how well it will go in stock form. If you are travelling alone you may want to invest in a winch and recovery gear as a safety precaution. Beyond that I'm just jealous with the available land you have to explore. Enjoy!
 
#7 ·
You're going to have a hard time finding many adults around here!! And damn I want to go to this place for a while.
I agree with the comments on trying it stock first. You'd be surprised how much a stock Jeep can do.
If you do decide on bigger tires, I'd stick with a 2.5", the Rock Krawler springs are amazing! As NGB said, with 2.5" you can easily do 37s with flat or trimmed flares.
 
#8 ·
Just because a stock rubicon is capable of the trails you're doing doesn't mean you need to keep it stock, in my opinion. 2.5" lift and some 35" KO2s or Nitto Ridge Grapplers would be my suggestion. You have a whopping 7 mile commute and the on road ride with that setup won't be far from stock. It will take you anywhere you need it to and be way more capable than a stock one just in case you find yourself in that situation. Plus, it looks way cooler :) for a couple grand you can have an incredibly capable Jeep.

Don't forget a nice front bumper and winch and some recovery equipment.
 
#10 ·
2.5" lift and some 35" KO2s or Nitto Ridge Grapplers... will take you anywhere you need it to and be way more capable than a stock one just in case you find yourself in that situation.
A bit of hyperbole in both directions, perhaps? I don't think that setup will "take you anywhere you need it to" unless his needs are very close to what a stock Rubi will take him through, and on the flip side, I don't think adding 35s will be "way more capable" than stock. But I realize that's a matter of semantics.

If I had to turn it into math here's how I'd put it:

Let's assign the value of 100 to "things that can be done with a stock JK Sport on 32 ATs, in all of the terrains one encounters in North America."

Given the addition of lockers, 4.10 gearing, MTs, and the 4:1 t-case I'd rate the JK Rubicon at, say 120-125.

Adding a 2.5 lift and 35s to a Rubicon I'd rate it at maybe 130, with the main difference being getting across downed logs or rocks that are 1.5" taller than could be crossed in a stock JKR. No real increase in mud/sand/snow capability unless it's because of greater floatation from the wider tire. So essentially the same as stock Rubicon on the vast majority of terrain, but able to climb rock a little better, maybe cross sand a tiny bit better.


Sport.................100
Rubicon..............125
JKR + 35s...........130

Plus, it looks way cooler :)
Now you're talking! :D
 
#9 ·
I run with a 2.5" lift, bumper, 10.5K winch with synthetic rope, 33" tires, manual trans.
A winch and a set of MaxxTraxx can get you out of a lot of trouble. Them and your side-arm....
 
#11 ·
High-centering with a stocker is the main threat. 2.5" has been the magic amount of extra belly height for me. And, when that fails, there's the winch.
Put that in your equation.
 
#19 ·
High-centering with a stocker is the main threat. 2.5" has been the magic amount of extra belly height for me.
That's exactly how it works for me, too. I didn't need any more capability than stock; I just didn't want to grind my belly on all of the fun stuff.
 
#12 ·
Lots of good advice thus far, at least in my opinion.
I am leaning in the direction of keeping it stock... maybe, or, as you indicated swap the stock mud terrains for all terrains, I would look at 34x10.50-17 for a stock vehicle, maybe 3/4" spacer up front.
Personally, for your described use, I would divert the lift funds and I would look at some good skids, a winch and some sort of gear management system for inside the rig. Lift and larger tires can come later... if needed.
Not sure how much gear you take, but the the back seat removed the 2dr can take a fair bit of gear... but you may still be looking at a roof rack to take everything, and toss your combustibles (vehicle and cooking fuel) up there.
 
#14 ·
Holy crap, lots of great feedback here... Thanks all! So lemme reply to some of what I've heard.

While I am generally a "function over form" kinda dude, I'll admit that part of the appeal of a jeep for me is deviating from the stock look... I completely understand that stock Rubicon's are one of the most capable factory vehicle's you can get, but I don't want to go to a tattoo shop and pick something out of the standardized book that everyone else has... I want something that is my own! Secondly, I am a little bit of a tinkerer, so I'm not going to be able to drive it stock for long before "the itch" sets in. Hell, I was even considering buying some of what I need to get started BEFORE I buy the Jeep so I don't have to wait. It's already started. So it's a combination of a desire for a jeep that looks aesthetically pleasing to me, AND an off-road beast. And right now what's most appealing to me aesthetically as I've done my research is the 35", 2.5-3.5" lift look. Love the capability that comes with that setup, too.

To answer the question about my area, I'm registered with the Menominee Indian tribe of Wisconsin, so I have full access to the tribal lands, which takes up the entire Menominee county of Wisconsin... It's a sovereign nation, meaning that there's no state or local law enforcement presence on the land at all, and no access is permitted unless you're registered, which only 2,000 people are. So it's essentially closed to the general public, and there's really no rules. ;) There's an unwritten expectation with the tribal leaders to treat the land with respect, and I have no intention of doing intentionally hard wheeling like I said, but naturally some of the areas are going to be incredibly difficult and unmaintained...

So, while I respect the "drive it stock" crowd and probably will for a while due to the reality of being an adult, it's only a matter of time before the Jeep gets a little after market love. Sounds like most think a 2.5" loft is adequate but I need a few pointers on bump stops and spacers and whatever else is recommend for that size... Still trying to figure some of that out. Definitely think a winch a new bumpers, probably a tire carrier rear bumper, and other add ons will come down the road, too. As far as weight, I am generally pretty minimalist when I camp and such... Almost 100% backpacking style, carrying less than 40 pounds of gear usually, more when I canoe or kayak though. So I will be adding some weight down the road to the vehicle itself, but I'm never going to be as weighed down as an overland type vehicle. Does that help narrow things down?



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#35 ·
...I don't want to go to a tattoo shop and pick something out of the standardized book that everyone else has... I want something that is my own!
Then definitely keep it stock. You'll be the only one in North America. ;)
 
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#15 ·
Well, maybe fill in some gaps for us. Rock Crawler 2.5" comes in something like 22 flavors from Quadratec, and range in price from $650 to $6300

Let us know which kit you're looking at, and we can say what you'd need to supplement for best usage / most bang for the buck.

PS I'm jealous of your access to tribal lands. I can trace back to southern Blackfoot in Montana, but no special privileges because I'm not enough "of the blood". Would love to have that kind of opportunity to explore unspoiled nature.

O_E
 
#16 ·
It's honestly amazing, dude. My dad and all of his brothers and sisters were born and raised there, and they all moved off reservation after high school (there was a little bit of a government push to do so), but nobody ever wanted to take me there when I was a kid because they all had a bad upbringing there. There's a lot of poverty, alcoholism, crime, etc... Although it's getting better. So I needed to venture there on my own when I was a little older. I don't see much of the bad stuff except when I stop in town for gas or food... I've got some family there still, but it's hard visiting them because of how far addiction has taken some of them. So most of my time there is spent enjoying the unspoiled, old growth Wisconsin forest.

And I haven't done enough research I guess to know fully what I need. Not looking for a "budget boost", but I just narrowed things down to what I posted about in the last couple days. I only specified Rock Krawler because of a recommendation from a real world friend that was confirmed on the forums. I might just give those guys a call and discuss my needs because I hear that their customer service dudes are pretty helpful when it comes to that. I don't think I'd need coil overs or anything like that for now, but it's also appealing that their lift kits can be "built up" and expanded upon later. So I'll probably start where they recommend and add if I need to down the road.

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#22 ·
X2 for Rick @Quadratec and the Forum Discount as well as the Support We get from Rick.

When building your Rig:
- Go slow, Read a lot and ask questions
- Keep it simple and duty-centric
- Establish your budget and goals IF need be save up BUT Go Quality or go home.
- IF you can - consider doing the work yourself (for many reasons)

That's a good start.
 
#23 ·
The "duty centric" comment is probably the most relevant to me... Ultimately, does a lifted Jeep with bigger tires look cool? Hell yeah! But the reality is performance is my primary goal with this rig. I have some nice knives, but I don't understand the concept of a safe Queen. I will be using this truck, and nothing will be included unless there is a performance gain. Simple is good in my mind. Which is part of the appeal of a Jeep.

Also, thanks to all for the heads up about Qtech and Rick... Good info!

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#33 ·
I'll be the voice that says hold on here. Because you have a JKU I would opt for a 3.5 inch lift. This will help with break over angle with the large JKU. I would also get skids on there as fast as possible. You don't need to play in the rocks to need skids, a branch has no problem putting a hold in an oil pan. Yep, you will need a new drive shaft but IMO that is a small price to pay over being high centered. And I just think JKU's look better at 3.5 inches.
 
#37 ·
2.5" vs 3.5".
I went 2.5 w/ 35's first because of all the advice stating steering and driveshafts would be fine at that height. I though it would be the more budget minded approach. Well, at first I didn't like the steering, so, adjustable control arms went in. Then, the driveshafts started to have a harmonic vibration, so double cardan shafts went in. Then, first time on the trail, I bent the drag link, realizing the tie rod is known to be even weaker, both of those got replaced.
At that point I realized I was a track bar bracket and steering flip away from having a great 3.5" setup, so, when it came time to replace (buy longer) shocks I went with new springs as well. (local shop advised 3.5" over 2.5" and that helped with my decision) With the raised rear track bar, flipped steering and raised front track bar for the 3.5" height, the Jeep handled even better than it did at 2.5" due to the better track bar geometry.

Now, I am real picky about how my rig drives on pavement, and at the time i was commuting 65 miles each way to work, so I had lots of time to sit in the seat and "notice" these things.
So, if you too are going to see lots of daily miles, and are very picky, I'm betting at 2.5" you will end up with everything required for the 3.5" lift by the time you are happy with it's highway manners.
Now, I wheel rocks, that most would not take a $30+k rig on, so the extra height made sense, but having said that, to make the 2.5" behave well(IMO), I was buying everything needed for a 3.5" lift anyways. Was a no brainer.

At 3.5" it goes down the road straight as an arrow, corners flat/predictable, but, it is not a budget 3.5" lift, it has all the recommended bits to make it work right.
If you are willing to compromise some highway manners go with a more budget minded 2.5", but if you're a picky discerning type, I'm guessing you'll end up with everything (but for the drag flip) on the 2.5" that you'll need for a 3.5".

My .02
 
#39 ·
Agreed.
You mention Metal Cloak, that is who I went with and am very pleased.
So, in addition to Rock Krawler, I would suggest OP look at Metal Cloak and, Synergy.
All top level components at comparable pricing.
 
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#40 ·
I guess the reason I'm being very thorough before hand and spending hours reading spec sheets, forums, watching videos, and reviews is because I want to do this right the first time with quality parts that will fit my needs long term. I am likely going to drive this stock for a short time but I fully intend on upgrading soon so this Jeep will not remain stock. I don't want to get a 2.5" lift because it's "enough" only to end up wishing I had done a 3.5" if it has significant off-road performance gains. Consider that my commute is very short, and often in the summer I ride my bike to work. Also consider that I will be breaking trail on many of the trails I'm going on, heading in with a chainsaw and a winch and offroading in places that haven't seen a set of tires in years. Not all of the places on the reservation are like that, but many are. Some of them, even with the best set up money can buy, will simply be impassable. So highway road manners are not my biggest priority... I'm on the highway once every two weeks maybe. Truly this is a DD, but with my specific needs and situation a more trail oriented set up is what I am looking for.

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