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Old 11-05-2009, 05:33 PM   #1
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I need some questions answered.

I currently own a 2002 TJ and am looking into selling it and purchasing a 2010 LK Rubicon. I am a bit hesitant about a few things.

1. The engine. Any former or current TJ owners out there can honestly say it wasn't too bad of a change? Does it use a timing belt, or timing chain? The TJ had a timing chain which for me was much better than say oh maybe a Toyota.

2. Transmission. Auto or Manual? Why. I currently have a manual and love it. However I have heard some not so good things about the 6spd. Wondering if the 4spd auto is a more reliable product (Plus wife can't drive stick).

3. Death Wobble? WTF. What is this and what causes it and why hasn't it been fixed. A friend bought a 2008 LJ X and has this problem and Her Jeep is bone stock.

4. Nav system. Is there a problem with the NAV in this thing. I have seen some posts on other forums complaining about problems.

5. Breather Tubes? In my TJ they were already run to the height of the hood both front and rear. Whats the deal hear? Are they done just like the other cars with a stupid accordion thingy stuck on top of the diff's. WTF

6. Any other info or opinions would be great. Thanks guys.


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Old 11-05-2009, 06:49 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by lax71vcu View Post
I currently own a 2002 TJ and am looking into selling it and purchasing a 2010 LK Rubicon. I am a bit hesitant about a few things.

1. The engine. Any former or current TJ owners out there can honestly say it wasn't too bad of a change? Does it use a timing belt, or timing chain? The TJ had a timing chain which for me was much better than say oh maybe a Toyota.

2. Transmission. Auto or Manual? Why. I currently have a manual and love it. However I have heard some not so good things about the 6spd. Wondering if the 4spd auto is a more reliable product (Plus wife can't drive stick).

3. Death Wobble? WTF. What is this and what causes it and why hasn't it been fixed. A friend bought a 2008 LJ X and has this problem and Her Jeep is bone stock.

4. Nav system. Is there a problem with the NAV in this thing. I have seen some posts on other forums complaining about problems.

5. Breather Tubes? In my TJ they were already run to the height of the hood both front and rear. Whats the deal hear? Are they done just like the other cars with a stupid accordion thingy stuck on top of the diff's. WTF

6. Any other info or opinions would be great. Thanks guys.

1. I can't speak on this one.

2. I drive a manual. I wouldn't have it any other way, especially in a jeep. Been off the road a lot and have total confidence in the standard. If you are used to driving a standard, I wouldn't know of a reason to go back to automatic. I traded in a caravan from soccer dad days and that was an automatic. I owned it for 7 years and I'm super pleased with my standard jeep. There has been a few issues with the standard jumping out of gear in first (violently) but judging from the talk, it is rare. Some automatics have caught fire I have read about on this forum but that doesn't seem to be widespread. Absolutely no problems with my standard transmission.

3. Two 08 JKs here a Sahara Unlimited I had for 9 months and a Rubicon Unlimited I currently drive 1 year and 3 months old and both showed no sign of any kind of wobble. The only time I have heard of it is after modifications with the suspension.

4. I have the nav in the Rubicon. Occasionally it will hiccup. Turn the car off for 5 to 10 minutes and it comes back working. It has happened maybe twice. Computer glitch?? I'm a computer guy for a living and am used to this type of thing happening on occasion. No lasting issues with it. It has its share of quarks in its operation but so hasn't every other nav system that I have used over the years.

5. Can't speak on this one.

6. I have been having a blast driving my JK since my first one in Nov. of 07. I'm in my second childhood at mid 50s ish.

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Old 11-06-2009, 08:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lax71vcu View Post
I currently own a 2002 TJ and am looking into selling it and purchasing a 2010 LK Rubicon. I am a bit hesitant about a few things.

1. The engine. Any former or current TJ owners out there can honestly say it wasn't too bad of a change? Does it use a timing belt, or timing chain? The TJ had a timing chain which for me was much better than say oh maybe a Toyota.

2. Transmission. Auto or Manual? Why. I currently have a manual and love it. However I have heard some not so good things about the 6spd. Wondering if the 4spd auto is a more reliable product (Plus wife can't drive stick).

3. Death Wobble? WTF. What is this and what causes it and why hasn't it been fixed. A friend bought a 2008 LJ X and has this problem and Her Jeep is bone stock.

4. Nav system. Is there a problem with the NAV in this thing. I have seen some posts on other forums complaining about problems.

5. Breather Tubes? In my TJ they were already run to the height of the hood both front and rear. Whats the deal hear? Are they done just like the other cars with a stupid accordion thingy stuck on top of the diff's. WTF

6. Any other info or opinions would be great. Thanks guys.


I also had a '02 TJ. Bought new, and did numerous mods to it. Wished I'd never sold it. Just bought a JK Unlimited Rubi Tuesday. My take:

1. 4.0L has grunt in lower RPM band vs. 3.8L which takes more RPM to get the power. Overall, I can't complain. I'd rather have a more basic engine such as the 3.8L vs. as you mentioned a Toyota 4.0L which is far more complicated. Based off what I have found the 3.8L uses a timing chain from the OEM parts catalog.

2. I would only buy a 6 speed. So far no issues other than sometimes is a touch tricky getting into 6th gear. My wife can't drive manual either, so I offered to teach her. No take-up on that offer yet.

3. Don't know enough about the subject, but haven't had it so far.

4. Garmin in mine. Fault free.

5. Not certain I understand this one.

6. I'm very pleased having a 4 door Jeep. While you loose some capability off-road, accomodates the other things in life making it an easier daily driver to live with. Compared to the TJ, more refined, but still no mistaking it for a Toyota or Nissan inside. Storage is better, which isn't saying much. A quieter interior with the correct option package, but still a Wrangler.


Just my $0.02.
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Old 11-06-2009, 08:43 PM   #4
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The JK with the 2.8 CRD engine is like the 4.0L TJ.
The 3.8L JK istn´t that good. Less torque at lower RPMs. It needs way more RPMs for the same power than the 4.0L TJ.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:17 PM   #5
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Thanks Guys

Keep it coming.
This has been helpful so far.

As for the breather tubes...

I am referencing the Differential breather tubes, transmission breather tubes, and transfer case breather tubes. In the TJ they are all vented to the engine.
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Old 11-07-2009, 09:32 AM   #6
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I swapped an '00 Sahara 5 speed manual for my '08 Sahara 4 speed automatic. My observations are that the V6 engine is weaker than the inline 6 but it's more frugal with fuel consumption. The auto transmission is a poor excuse for a tranny, it could be improved quite a bit. It needs a paddle shift on the wheel and smoother shifts.

I didn't get the Nav system, I use my Garmin Nuvi 350 that I move from car to car. IMHO, the built in Nav systems are way overpriced for what you get and if you have several vehicles you'll need one in each. There's a lot to be said about the portability but I suppose many like the notion of having it fixed permanently in the dash.

I haven't experienced any death wobble on my old TJ or the new JK.
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:05 AM   #7
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It needs a paddle shift on the wheel and smoother shifts.

Now that's funny! Thank you for giving me a good laugh this morning!
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Old 11-07-2009, 10:34 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lax71vcu View Post
Keep it coming.
This has been helpful so far.

As for the breather tubes...

I am referencing the Differential breather tubes, transmission breather tubes, and transfer case breather tubes. In the TJ they are all vented to the engine.
Front and rear axle breathers are long (ish) hoses capped with plastic check valves. The front is routed and clipped to the top of the drivers side shock tower. Rear is clipped to the inboard side of the passenger side wheel well.

Not sure about the location of trans or tc breathers.

I've been in a lot of water that was over the check valves and I have yet to find any contaminated gear oil.
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Old 11-07-2009, 03:28 PM   #9
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I didn't get the Nav system, I use my Garmin Nuvi 350 that I move from car to car. IMHO, the built in Nav systems are way overpriced for what you get and if you have several vehicles you'll need one in each. There's a lot to be said about the portability but I suppose many like the notion of having it fixed permanently in the dash.
I've got the built in nav system. The radio upgrade was a whopping $1200.00 or there abouts. That included a lot more than just the nav. For instance, upgraded speakers, DVD player, upgraded amplifier and oh, by the way the nav is included. Now, was it worth it? Well.......HELL YA. I don't have to get my ape suit on and monkey around under the dash, in the dash, or where else I was going to spend time "upgrading" as I go....hell, I got the whole thing all at once. I'm an audiophile from when I was a teen back in the 70s and my professional credentials are in electronics so I have some knowledge here. This sound system is the best I have had in a stock system in any car that I have owned. Could I improve on it? Hell yes. But why? It already sounds pretty sweet. I don't spend that much time in it to justify that.

Now here is my take on the nav. It was included. It performs well. Are there better out there? Yes. But I'm happy with it. Here is one feature that you might consider: A portable nav system placed on the dash is an attractive nuisance for a thief. If you leave it on your dash with your soft top on, it is one slice away from as good as gone. Then you are out the money for the nav and your top has to be repaired. Or with the hard top on the thief comes along and pop, there goes your window and your nav is gone. Same situation. The all in one radio just sits there and looks like a radio. Can it be stolen? Sure, but not as easy as the slit or smash and grab. Think about it.
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Old 11-09-2009, 09:05 PM   #10
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Thanks Guys

Scott Rock:
Good info on the Breather tubes. Exactly what I was looking for.

Jkin:
Thanks for the heads up on the nav system. All good point will definitely take into consideration.
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Old 11-11-2009, 08:19 AM   #11
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I trade my 01 Tj sport in a couple of years ago on a used o7 X Unlimited. This is what I found so far.

1. 3.8l engine surprised me quite a bit, as I loved the 4.0. It has plenty of power only thing I don't like is the lag behind throttle input since everything is controlled by the computer. Good news is a company came out with a fix for this and you can read the article in this months JP mag. I plan on buying this module soon.

2. I have the manual and it is pretty good, however every once in a while I accidently shift into fourth when try to upshift to sixth.

3. DW had it in mine wich is bone stock at 39K miles. Jeep never gave me a answer or figured out what was causing it, eventually it just disappered. Don't know if that is a good thing.

4. Don't have a GPS. I know how to read a map.

5. Mine has the check valves. Just curious did you buy your 02 used, b/c I had to run the breather tubes to the engine compartment myself on my 01.

6. One problem I hear on the JK is the plastic clip on the 4wd shifter bust alot. I never experienced this yet on mine though.

Overall I am pleased with my JK except for my DW experience. I had experienced it b/4 on lifted jeeps, but mine was bone stock. I believe more people will experiance it as they get more mileage on their jeeps. Most accounts I read seem to develop it around 40k miles.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:08 AM   #12
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DW had it at 30K on a stock JK. Had it alligned and it has not repeated, but we will see.
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Old 11-11-2009, 10:48 AM   #13
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Now that's funny! Thank you for giving me a good laugh this morning!
+1 jeep NEEDS paddle shifter? WTF?
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:20 PM   #14
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death wobble is caused by the steering stabilizer going soft. replace it, cheap and easy, with a better aftermarket one dont buy a new oem one because i will just go soft again. its worth the money to replace the stabilizer and not wreck your jeep over something so simple and easy. heres one and i think 44 bucks it totally worth it

Skyjacker Steering Stabilizers for Jeep Vehicles - Quadratec
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Old 11-12-2009, 06:44 AM   #15
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Steering Stabilizers just mask a bigger problem. I know that jeeps have crappy SS to begin with, but they also don't cure the main problem. Jeep replaced mine under warranty when they were trying to diagnose the problem and it still didn't fix it. I could see it wearing out again, but it didn't even stop it for a day.
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Old 11-12-2009, 07:40 AM   #16
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death wobble is caused by the steering stabilizer going soft. replace it, cheap and easy, with a better aftermarket one dont buy a new oem one because i will just go soft again. its worth the money to replace the stabilizer and not wreck your jeep over something so simple and easy. heres one and i think 44 bucks it totally worth it

Skyjacker Steering Stabilizers for Jeep Vehicles - Quadratec
I installed that same one recently because of some minor bump steer. The bump steer has vanished. They actually sent me 2 in the box. I'd be willing to sell it cheep. The only things missing are the bushings and sleeves.
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Old 11-12-2009, 01:27 PM   #17
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Steering Stabilizers just mask a bigger problem. I know that jeeps have crappy SS to begin with, but they also don't cure the main problem. Jeep replaced mine under warranty when they were trying to diagnose the problem and it still didn't fix it. I could see it wearing out again, but it didn't even stop it for a day.
please dont tell me your running the 4 inch lift and 33's that are in your sig with a stock steering stablizer cause if you are then there is your problem. get a skyjacker one and the problem will be solved not masked the soft crappy stock stabilizer is the problem thats why they make much better ones. even if someone was driving a completly stock jeep i would still suggest to get a better steering stabilizer cause the oem ones are a joke

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