Hey Guys- since we're about 12 pages into the other thread about when it's going to be available etc. I thought I'd start a new thread where people can ask questions about installation, features etc. and I can address them without having to go back and re-read that whole thread again.
As I mentioned in the other thread, I was one of the guys who was selected to get an early version of this top for product seeding and to give feedback about the installation and whatnot. I got this top for free from Bestop with the request that I give them feedback, talk about it online, and if I had any problems with it, give them a chance to deal with it before I flamed them online. They also asked that I don't immediately turn around and sell it.
I don't work for Bestop, and I'm not getting any other compensation from them, so hopefully you can take my word that I'm giving my honest opinion on the quality of the product and the level of difficulty in installation.
To put my comments in context, please keep in mind that the only soft top I ever had before was a OEM soft top and 1/2 doors on a TJ. I've never put together a soft top with bows and whatnot from scratch, so I can't say whether this one is more or less complicated than other ones. However, I grew up wrenching on stuff on the farm and my first career was as an airplane mechanic, so I know my way around a tool box. I would expect that my experience is more or less what a reasonably proficient shade tree mechanic would expect to see.
Here Goes:
First off, It was well packaged. The box is about the size of a flat screen TV and according to my bathroom scale, it weighed 78 lbs. when I opened it up, all the soft pieces were in a plastic bag with paper dividers to keep them from getting scratched and the bag was separated from the hard parts by a cardboard divider. All the hard parts were in their own plastic sleeves and there were no scratches on anything.
The instructions are 37 pages long, but the first 6 pages are just parts lists and the last 9 are instructions for how to put it up and down, so the actual installation instructions are "only" 22 pages.
22 pages is still a lot of instructions, but they're in the same format as the instructions that come with Ikea furniture i.e. lots of pictures and arrows with with some text to go along with the illustrations.
All of the pictures in the instructions are essential, because nothing except the two cross arches and the two bow mount brackets that attach to the aft roll bars are marked. It's very much a case of look at the picture, look for the part that looks like the picture, look back at the picture to see how it's oriented.
I found a couple of issues with the instructions. Nothing significant, but just a couple of things that were a little confusing. Maybe it's just me, but I emailed Cassie at Bestop this morning to see if I could offer some input about how maybe the instructions could be cleaned up a little.
The instructions say that you need a drill driver, but I didn't find in necessary to break one out. For tools, I Just used a ratchet screwdriver and a 1/4" drive ratchet with a couple of sockets and a torx bit. I also used a 6" crescent wrench to hold the teeny nuts that go on the back side of the plastic covers over the springs, because I didn't have a socket that small. They also say you need a pair of vice grips, but the only thing they're used for is to squash the ends of the springs after you hook them through the appropriate hole, so any old pair of pliers will do.
I can see how it would be possible to assemble the hinged side bows for the sun rider feature backward or upside down, especially since you have the top upside down on the floor when you install them. You really have to look at the shape of the parts and the way the hinges work and think about it for a minute to get this right.
I had a buddy hanging out in the garage, and it was helpful to have a second set of hands to help maneuver some of the bigger pieces, but two people aren't really necessary. I could have done it by myself just fine, and I don't think that a second person really impacted the installation time much either way.
The instructions estimate 4 hours for installation. I'd say that they are spot on for a first timer like me. It took me almost exactly 4.5, but I spent the extra 1/2 hour fiddling with the fitment of the door surrounds. I have a Rhinorack backbone system for the hard top. The Rhinorack has a couple of gussets that bolt on under the roll bar padding at the sound bar. It turns out that these gussets are in the way of the Trektop door surrounds and have to come off. No amount of adjusting can make them fit at the same time. Not a big deal, but if you happen to have a rhino rack for the hardtop, then you will have to remove those gussets and then remember to reinstall them when switching back to the hardtop.
The #2 bow assembly has pivot points on both ends that require you to install shouldered plastic bushings into both sides of each hole, slip them into a slot on the side bows and then install a screw. I found it to be next to impossible to keep the bushings in the hole while you're sliding it into the slot. After a few minutes of struggling with this, I put a drop of superglue on the bushings to temporarily hold them in place until I could get the assembly slid together and a bolt through the holes.
It was only about 50 degrees out yesterday, so the fabric didn't have a chance to warm up and it was a tight fit, but with some heaving and tugging, we were able to get everything in place. The fabric was to tight to get the back window attached on both sides, so I pulled into the driveway and left it running with the heater on full blast for about ten minutes and that did the trick. I don't think that it would have been nearly as challenging if it had been a nice hot sunny day and I would expect it to get a lot better over time.
So that's the installation. As far as how it looks, fits etc, I'm impressed. I can see how once it loosens up a little, It's going to be a lot easier to slide the windows on or off than struggling with zippers like my old TJ.
It's also a ton quieter than my TJ top. I don't know how it compares to other modern soft tops, but my TJ was so noisy on the highway that you couldn't hear a cell phone ringing if it was laying on the dash. At 70 mph, I didn't think this top was much louder than the factory hard top, with no buffeting or wind noise to speak of. Immediately after I installed it, I drove about 20 miles on the turnpike, and at 80 mph the tire noise from my OEM M/T's was still louder than any wind noise from the top.
It was dumping rain when I came home a few hours later. I looked over the interior pretty closely with a flashlight and didn't see any sign of water leaks. It's supposed to rain here for the next week pretty much every day, so I'm not going to have a chance to play with putting it up and down for a while, but I'll be able to continue monitoring for water leaks.
Looking at the installation, I don't have any reason to think that it won't operate as advertised, and it seems like a well made product. It also seems like it will be easier to operate than my old zipper top. The fastback look is cool, and it's awesome that you can fold it back. I'm still in the honeymoon phase, but I'm pretty happy with it.
If there are any questions or comments, I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability.
As I mentioned in the other thread, I was one of the guys who was selected to get an early version of this top for product seeding and to give feedback about the installation and whatnot. I got this top for free from Bestop with the request that I give them feedback, talk about it online, and if I had any problems with it, give them a chance to deal with it before I flamed them online. They also asked that I don't immediately turn around and sell it.
I don't work for Bestop, and I'm not getting any other compensation from them, so hopefully you can take my word that I'm giving my honest opinion on the quality of the product and the level of difficulty in installation.
To put my comments in context, please keep in mind that the only soft top I ever had before was a OEM soft top and 1/2 doors on a TJ. I've never put together a soft top with bows and whatnot from scratch, so I can't say whether this one is more or less complicated than other ones. However, I grew up wrenching on stuff on the farm and my first career was as an airplane mechanic, so I know my way around a tool box. I would expect that my experience is more or less what a reasonably proficient shade tree mechanic would expect to see.
Here Goes:
First off, It was well packaged. The box is about the size of a flat screen TV and according to my bathroom scale, it weighed 78 lbs. when I opened it up, all the soft pieces were in a plastic bag with paper dividers to keep them from getting scratched and the bag was separated from the hard parts by a cardboard divider. All the hard parts were in their own plastic sleeves and there were no scratches on anything.
The instructions are 37 pages long, but the first 6 pages are just parts lists and the last 9 are instructions for how to put it up and down, so the actual installation instructions are "only" 22 pages.
22 pages is still a lot of instructions, but they're in the same format as the instructions that come with Ikea furniture i.e. lots of pictures and arrows with with some text to go along with the illustrations.
All of the pictures in the instructions are essential, because nothing except the two cross arches and the two bow mount brackets that attach to the aft roll bars are marked. It's very much a case of look at the picture, look for the part that looks like the picture, look back at the picture to see how it's oriented.
I found a couple of issues with the instructions. Nothing significant, but just a couple of things that were a little confusing. Maybe it's just me, but I emailed Cassie at Bestop this morning to see if I could offer some input about how maybe the instructions could be cleaned up a little.
The instructions say that you need a drill driver, but I didn't find in necessary to break one out. For tools, I Just used a ratchet screwdriver and a 1/4" drive ratchet with a couple of sockets and a torx bit. I also used a 6" crescent wrench to hold the teeny nuts that go on the back side of the plastic covers over the springs, because I didn't have a socket that small. They also say you need a pair of vice grips, but the only thing they're used for is to squash the ends of the springs after you hook them through the appropriate hole, so any old pair of pliers will do.
I can see how it would be possible to assemble the hinged side bows for the sun rider feature backward or upside down, especially since you have the top upside down on the floor when you install them. You really have to look at the shape of the parts and the way the hinges work and think about it for a minute to get this right.
I had a buddy hanging out in the garage, and it was helpful to have a second set of hands to help maneuver some of the bigger pieces, but two people aren't really necessary. I could have done it by myself just fine, and I don't think that a second person really impacted the installation time much either way.
The instructions estimate 4 hours for installation. I'd say that they are spot on for a first timer like me. It took me almost exactly 4.5, but I spent the extra 1/2 hour fiddling with the fitment of the door surrounds. I have a Rhinorack backbone system for the hard top. The Rhinorack has a couple of gussets that bolt on under the roll bar padding at the sound bar. It turns out that these gussets are in the way of the Trektop door surrounds and have to come off. No amount of adjusting can make them fit at the same time. Not a big deal, but if you happen to have a rhino rack for the hardtop, then you will have to remove those gussets and then remember to reinstall them when switching back to the hardtop.
The #2 bow assembly has pivot points on both ends that require you to install shouldered plastic bushings into both sides of each hole, slip them into a slot on the side bows and then install a screw. I found it to be next to impossible to keep the bushings in the hole while you're sliding it into the slot. After a few minutes of struggling with this, I put a drop of superglue on the bushings to temporarily hold them in place until I could get the assembly slid together and a bolt through the holes.
It was only about 50 degrees out yesterday, so the fabric didn't have a chance to warm up and it was a tight fit, but with some heaving and tugging, we were able to get everything in place. The fabric was to tight to get the back window attached on both sides, so I pulled into the driveway and left it running with the heater on full blast for about ten minutes and that did the trick. I don't think that it would have been nearly as challenging if it had been a nice hot sunny day and I would expect it to get a lot better over time.
So that's the installation. As far as how it looks, fits etc, I'm impressed. I can see how once it loosens up a little, It's going to be a lot easier to slide the windows on or off than struggling with zippers like my old TJ.
It's also a ton quieter than my TJ top. I don't know how it compares to other modern soft tops, but my TJ was so noisy on the highway that you couldn't hear a cell phone ringing if it was laying on the dash. At 70 mph, I didn't think this top was much louder than the factory hard top, with no buffeting or wind noise to speak of. Immediately after I installed it, I drove about 20 miles on the turnpike, and at 80 mph the tire noise from my OEM M/T's was still louder than any wind noise from the top.
It was dumping rain when I came home a few hours later. I looked over the interior pretty closely with a flashlight and didn't see any sign of water leaks. It's supposed to rain here for the next week pretty much every day, so I'm not going to have a chance to play with putting it up and down for a while, but I'll be able to continue monitoring for water leaks.
Looking at the installation, I don't have any reason to think that it won't operate as advertised, and it seems like a well made product. It also seems like it will be easier to operate than my old zipper top. The fastback look is cool, and it's awesome that you can fold it back. I'm still in the honeymoon phase, but I'm pretty happy with it.
If there are any questions or comments, I'll try to answer them to the best of my ability.