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Old 04-17-2013, 08:36 AM   #31
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:36 AM   #32
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I replaced the BFG 265/70 KM2 with Duratrac 285/70 on stock 2013 Rubi 17" wheels with 2.5" AEV lift.

No spacers.

No rubbing or any other issues so far.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP View Post

No.

You need the wheel spacers in this instance for the lift. TF and a few other 2.5 lifts out there require that you use wheel spacers with any size tire and their lifts when still using the stock wheels. This allows the wheels to clear the extended sway links placed in the front. If you don't run spacers, they will rub the links.
Good info.

Now I need to determine if the Mopar 2" lift has extended links. I'm guessing not, at that height.
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Old 04-17-2013, 09:54 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by ESP View Post
People who have fitted 285s without spacers also have not fitted all 285s out there available. Different 16 or 17" wheels & tires mean different results.

The truth is you may need spacers, just depends.
Sorry but, you're confusing the original point. The original post was about using a 285/70 on a stock wheel. Not a 16" wheel or a different 17" wheel.
Also.... when you say "all 285s", the original answers that I gave didn't include all 285s. A 285/75 is a significantly different tire that is a full 1" larger in diameter than a 70.
There are some minor differences in the different manufactures sizes for the 285/70 tire but if it is a true 285/70, they will not be enough to be a issue.
A 285/70-17 tire is supposed to measure between 32.7 and 32.9 inches tall and 11.5 inches wide. That's what mine are and I'll stand by my statement that, as long as this is what you're buying, it will work better without spacers than with.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:00 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Marc W View Post
Sorry but, you're confusing the original point. The original post was about using a 285/70 on a stock wheel. Not a 16" wheel or a different 17" wheel.
Jeeps come stock with 16, 17, and 18" wheels. I don't get your point here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc W View Post
Also.... when you say "all 285s", the original answers that I gave didn't include all 285s. A 285/75 is a significantly different tire that is a full 1" larger in diameter than a 70.
There are some minor differences in the different manufactures sizes for the 285/70 tire but if it is a true 285/70, they will not be enough to be a issue.
It again depends on the tire and the backspacing of the wheel. You cannot assume all 285/70 or 285/75 tires and wheels work without spacers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc W View Post
A 285/70-17 tire is supposed to measure between 32.7 and 32.9 inches tall and 11.5 inches wide. That's what mine are and I'll stand by my statement that, as long as this is what you're buying, it will work better without spacers than with.
Your stating that your tire and wheel combo works. It does but others sometimes don't. You can stand by your statement because it is specifically in regards to your particular tire/wheel combo. It works and it would work for others but people buy different tires and wheels. Each tire is made a little differently depending on the tread and tire width and the wheels they are mounted on. Each wheel in 16x8 or 17x9 "stock sizes" and "aftermarket" feature different backspacing and offsets which can also cause issues.
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Old 04-17-2013, 12:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ESP View Post
Jeeps come stock with 16, 17, and 18" wheels. I don't get your point here?



It again depends on the tire and the backspacing of the wheel. You cannot assume all 285/70 or 285/75 tires and wheels work without spacers.



Your stating that your tire and wheel combo works. It does but others sometimes don't. You can stand by your statement because it is specifically in regards to your particular tire/wheel combo. It works and it would work for others but people buy different tires and wheels. Each tire is made a little differently depending on the tread and tire width and the wheels they are mounted on. Each wheel in 16x8 or 17x9 "stock sizes" and "aftermarket" feature different backspacing and offsets which can also cause issues.

"The point" was the original posters question pertaining to whether 285/70 Duratracs would work on a STOCK 2013 RUBICON WHEEL without spacers.
Everything else (including you bringing other size wheels or "all 285s" into the question) had nothing to do with what was originally asked and answered.
I am aware that Jeeps come with different size wheels and 285s are not all the same.
I never specifically addressed anything other than the OPs question. He was being told he needed spacers for 285/70-17 Duratracs on a stock 2013 Rubicon wheel and I said he doesn't using my experience as an example.....
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:27 PM   #37
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Good grief..I messed up here.

I re-read through the whole thread and realized what you were saying better. Sorry about the confusion, it was significantly on my part.
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Old 04-18-2013, 08:54 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by Marc W View Post

"The point" was the original posters question pertaining to whether 285/70 Duratracs would work on a STOCK 2013 RUBICON WHEEL without spacers.
Everything else (including you bringing other size wheels or "all 285s" into the question) had nothing to do with what was originally asked and answered.
I am aware that Jeeps come with different size wheels and 285s are not all the same.
I never specifically addressed anything other than the OPs question. He was being told he needed spacers for 285/70-17 Duratracs on a stock 2013 Rubicon wheel and I said he doesn't using my experience as an example.....
UPDATE: after two days i found that i might need spacers after all. There is a minimal rubbing when at full lock towards the right. Not towards the left. I measured it and it is just a less than 1/4 inch problem at full lock and the rubbing happens against a bar in the direction. I visited my jeep dealer service manager and he said that i better learn to live with it because a 1.25 inch spacer will ruin the axle and the direction due to excess stress, the car stability, and it would be unsafe in highway driving as a wheel could come off unless i personally dismount each wheel every couple of months and check the torque on the nuts that attach the spacers to the car (he is refering to high quality spacers such as spidertrax)... With so many jeeps out there with spacers, it is hard to believe, but...
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Old 04-18-2013, 09:56 AM   #39
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Humm. How much clearance do you have on the other side? Maybe one of the variances that do need to be considered is how centered the axels are. I suppose, considering how these things are put together, there could be some varience in whether the axel is off center one way or the other. Jeez I would hope not but...
I know that you can limit how far your wheels will turn by using washers on the linkage to slightly shorten up the lock to lock. The decrease in turing radius will be so small it won't matter but it will stop the rub. I still think that would be better than spacers to deal with a quarter inch but I don't agree with the spacer danger scenareo the service guy says. That's just CYA speak. Hell if that were true every wheel with a reduced back space would be ruining the axels.
I'm going to go out and measure how much space I have at lock and see if there is any difference side to side. I curious now if maybe the "you may need spacers" could be true due to right/left axel center tollerances when they're built.
lol... if that's the case I'll need to give ESP an appology...
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Old 04-18-2013, 10:26 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by Marc W View Post
Humm. How much clearance do you have on the other side? Maybe one of the variances that do need to be considered is how centered the axels are. I suppose, considering how these things are put together, there could be some varience in whether the axel is off center one way or the other. Jeez I would hope not but...
I know that you can limit how far your wheels will turn by using washers on the linkage to slightly shorten up the lock to lock. The decrease in turing radius will be so small it won't matter but it will stop the rub. I still think that would be better than spacers to deal with a quarter inch but I don't agree with the spacer danger scenareo the service guy says. That's just CYA speak. Hell if that were true every wheel with a reduced back space would be ruining the axels.
I'm going to go out and measure how much space I have at lock and see if there is any difference side to side. I curious now if maybe the "you may need spacers" could be true due to right/left axel center tollerances when they're built.
lol... if that's the case I'll need to give ESP an appology...
Well, this is a very minimal issue so probably you are right wrt the root cause. I took the air pressure down from 40 psi suggested by DT guys to 33 and i think I am down to 1/8 of an inch or so...in that case the washer trick might work...i would not notice any problem by reducing the turning by 1/8 of an inch and is probably less messy than spacers (install wise) although wife likes the "attitude" of the car with spacers :-)
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:27 PM   #41
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Ok, Just out of curiosity I wanted to find out what's going on under there so I had the wife hold the wheel at full lock with the engine running (so it was as far as it could go) and did some measuring.
To start... The tire I have is advertised by Nitto as being 32.8 tall by 11.5 wide.
Goodyear says the Duratracs are 33' tall by 11.5 wide, so your's are a little bigger but not enough to make a difference with the measurements I got.

Here's what I found... turning the wheel to the right, I measured the rear of the right tire at a distance of 1.5" to the frame from the closest part of the tire (plenty of room).
On the other side, the front of the left tire was .75" from the swaybar (much closer).

So for a right turn the closest was 3/4 of a inch at the front of the left tire with 1.5 inches of space at the rear of the right.

Turning the other way (to the left)... the rear of the left tire was a full 2" from the frame and the front of the right tire was 1.25" from the swaybar (tons of room in both places).

So the closest clearance I have is 3/4" at the front of the left tire (to the swaybar)when making a right turn.

That's where you are having a issue so it looks like the problem is that the wheels turn farther to the right than they do when going left.

Duh... I know that sounds goofy but that's what the measurements are saying.

I don't know enough about steering linkage geometry and what's going on here to understand why it would do that or if it's even possible.

Actually the most important thing to consider is... the "wife likes the attitude with spacers"....
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Old 04-23-2013, 04:19 PM   #42
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Installed my 285/70/17 Duratracs last week and they rub on the swaybar at full lock when turning left. It isn't even close to the airdam on either side but the 10A's dam is different. I have some spacers sitting here but haven't decided if I'll use them. It's the very edge of the actual thread itself that rubs the swaybar, not the sidewall.
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:17 PM   #43
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That's interesting. I have a quarter inch from the sway bar on the left (turning right) and double that when going the other way.
What is the width of the tread from edge to edge on your Duratracs?
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Old 04-23-2013, 05:38 PM   #44
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Are the Duratrac 285/70/17s everyone is installing P rated or LTs? The only ones I can find listed on Goodyear's website are LTs.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:14 PM   #45
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That's interesting. I have a quarter inch from the sway bar on the left (turning right) and double that when going the other way.
What is the width of the tread from edge to edge on your Duratracs?
They are listed as 11.5. Still thinking about the spacers but want to avoid the tires sticking out past the fenders. It is close to flush right now and I like that.
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Old 04-23-2013, 06:43 PM   #46
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I'm curious about the actual width of the tread part of the tire (the part where you say the corner is touching the swaybar). The advertised 11.5" is the widest part, which is the sidewall to sidewall cross section. I measured the tread width on my Nittos and it is 9.25". I'm wondering if the Duratracs have a wider tread.
Even still, the .75" and 1.25" clearances at the swaybar I have at full lock has me wondering if some of these have more turn built into them. I mean even the side that is 3/4" is a long way from rubbing. That isn't even close!
I know some washers as shims to limit the turn to lock can stop the rub. Considering..... how often do you need to go all the way to the stop while turning these things? Mine is a 2-door and it just about pivits on the real wheel as it is.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:10 PM   #47
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I am running 315 70 17 GY Duratracs on the JKU at 30psi and 28 psi on our 04 TJ Rubicon w /265 75 16. The ride is great and the tire performance even better. I have run in dry, wet, black ice and snow / snowpacked conditions and both rigs feel very surefooted. Been off road on loose and sand and they did good also, don't know bout mud or rocks yet though. Impressed with the tires so far.
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Old 04-23-2013, 07:18 PM   #48
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I ran 285/70/17 duratracs for awhile on stock 17" wheels but had minor rubbing. I DO disconnect, but at full turn, I had minor rub not disconnected. I have a 2" lift from using 4 door springs and ended up getting Spidertrax spacers. NO rub when disconnected now.

I run the tires at 31 psi.

The D load range duratracs are softer than stock SR-As. Better ride for me.
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Old 04-23-2013, 08:01 PM   #49
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I'm sure glad that you guys are getting this sorted out. I have a appointment at Discount tire next week to have a set of 285/70r/17 Duratracs installed on my 2013 Rubicon. I have no plans to lift it, or use wheel spacers, because I thought from past threads that they would fit just fine without Mods.
NOW I'M WONDERING IF I SHOULD CANCEL AND STAY WITH MY 255 MTs?
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Old 04-23-2013, 10:26 PM   #50
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I'm curious about the actual width of the tread part of the tire (the part where you say the corner is touching the swaybar). The advertised 11.5" is the widest part, which is the sidewall to sidewall cross section. I measured the tread width on my Nittos and it is 9.25". I'm wondering if the Duratracs have a wider tread.
Even still, the .75" and 1.25" clearances at the swaybar I have at full lock has me wondering if some of these have more turn built into them. I mean even the side that is 3/4" is a long way from rubbing. That isn't even close!
I know some washers as shims to limit the turn to lock can stop the rub. Considering..... how often do you need to go all the way to the stop while turning these things? Mine is a 2-door and it just about pivits on the real wheel as it is.

Just measured. 9.75" I rarely need full lock which is why I'm considering just leaving it. Another reason is the spacer thing. Even though I have them new in a box, I'd like my tires to stay flush instead of sticking out. My TJ always drives me nuts with how much stuff gets kicked up the glass do to the tires sticking out past the fenders. Paint is one thing but dirty glass annoys me!
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:23 PM   #51
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Since it is a minor rub just at almost full lock to the right, and since we wanted to change the wheels eventually, i wonder if wheels with 4" backsacing rathertha the backspace on the stock wheels will resolve the problem for me? I am just 1/4 of an inch too close. Anyone with custom 17 inch wheels and Duratracks 285/70/17? If so what wheels (backspace)?

Cheers,
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:31 PM   #52
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Installed my 285/70/17 Duratracs last week and they rub on the swaybar at full lock when turning left. It isn't even close to the airdam on either side but the 10A's dam is different. I have some spacers sitting here but haven't decided if I'll use them. It's the very edge of the actual thread itself that rubs the swaybar, not the sidewall.
This is very strange. At full lock turning left i have a good 3/4 inch clearance from swaybar... Towards the right i rub it by 1/4 to 1/8 inch... Same cars, same stock wheels, same tires, different issues maybe related to manufacturing tolerances on tires, wheels, etc.

I will likely get the right custom wheels and call it a day. The right set of wheels should clear the 1/4 inch issue.
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Old 04-23-2013, 11:52 PM   #53
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Just measured. 9.75" I rarely need full lock which is why I'm considering just leaving it. Another reason is the spacer thing. Even though I have them new in a box, I'd like my tires to stay flush instead of sticking out. My TJ always drives me nuts with how much stuff gets kicked up the glass do to the tires sticking out past the fenders. Paint is one thing but dirty glass annoys me!
So the difference between your Duratracs and my Nitto Grapplers is, mine are advertised as 32.8" tall and have a measured tread width of 9.25",
yours are advertised as 33" tall and have a measured tread that is 1/2 inch wider than mine. The Duratrac as it turns out is a slightly larger tire.
That little bit still doesn't seem like it would be a problem if they were on my Jeep with the clearances I've measured, but obviously some minor differences in tire sizes, along with the range of steering movement can make each one it's own case.
I'm not sure that there aren't some minor differences between my 2013 and some of the previous JKs with the steering or something else.
So, although I have room to spare with the 285/70s, I guess the best
advice if you want that size (they are nice) they'll work but be prepared to deal with the possibility of some minor rubbing at full lock. Deal with it meaning... use some washers to limit the range a little or just don't turn the wheel that far...
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:00 AM   #54
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This is very strange. At full lock turning left i have a good 3/4 inch clearance from swaybar... Towards the right i rub it by 1/4 to 1/8 inch... Same cars, same stock wheels, same tires, different issues maybe related to manufacturing tolerances on tires, wheels, etc.

I will likely get the right custom wheels and call it a day. The right set of wheels should clear the 1/4 inch issue.
It really is interesting. I'd gladly take no rubbing! I'll get pictures when i can but it won't be soon unfortunately as I'll be out of town through the weekend.
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:09 AM   #55
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After reading all of your posts, I am going to try it. I also had a TJ, but mine had 3:75 backspacing, which looked good, but stuck out to far and threw mud on me when driving with doors off. I want my tires to stay under the fenders!
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Old 04-24-2013, 12:28 AM   #56
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After reading all of your posts, I am going to try it. I also had a TJ, but mine had 3:75 backspacing, which looked good, but stuck out to far and threw mud on me when driving with doors off. I want my tires to stay under the fenders!
I'll be interested to see how yours do.
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Old 05-12-2013, 09:41 AM   #57
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After installing the Duratrack 285/70/17 on stock wheels and getting some annoying rubbing against the sway bar, i found the perfect excuse to upgrade whels. Installed the Xd with 4.5 backspacing and now everything is good... Next in the list: a 2.5 lift and sound system upgrade :-)
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Old 09-04-2013, 10:26 PM   #58
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Check amazon or quadratec for Spidertrax wheel spacers. I got mine a week ago. Here are a few pics I shot the other day with 285's on.


Attachment 236878

Attachment 236879

Attachment 236880
NWranglerS, what rocker panel add on is that? And who makes if you dont mind me asking? Looks sweet.
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:16 PM   #59
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NWranglerS, what rocker panel add on is that? And who makes if you dont mind me asking? Looks sweet.
They are Rubicon rock rails (Rubi Rails), I forgot where I bought mine from but here is a link to them on quadratech below. I have the OEM Mopar ones but I believe there are other manufacturers out there that make similar ones.

MOPAR 82210585 - MOPAR® Production Rubicon Rock Rails in Satin Black for 07-14 Jeep® Wrangler JK 2 Door - Quadratec
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Old 09-04-2013, 11:53 PM   #60
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Much thanks for the info. I was searching and only found this. Jeep JK Wrangler - Rocker Panel Gaurds - Skid Row Offroad.
That came the closest. Im going to be ordering the ones you got. They are very nice looking. I think it gives it a more finished look to the side of the jeep. And it doesnt stick out either.

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