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Old 08-17-2014, 04:04 PM   #1
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Instead of Bigger Tires and Lifts and Stuff Make this a Priority!

A roll cage!!!!!!

This is what happened to one rig on a simple washboard road on the way home from our club run yesterday - caught a washout with a tire and rolled a few times! Luckily they were not alone and had other jeepers with them to get them to the hospital, and that they suffered no serious injuries! This was on a DIRT ROAD, not on sideways rocks!

So many posts here about tires and gears and lifts and armor - none of it means smack if the living bodies inside dont walk away in one piece! I have just reassessed my priorities for my build....

Who here runs real cages? Post up your pics!
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:08 PM   #2
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That's scary. Glad they are ok. People always think it won't happen to them. Or I'll do that next.

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Old 08-17-2014, 04:20 PM   #3
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Honestly I can't ever see myself doing anything to the point of rolling it over. Anytime my butt starts to pucker I just back away. Call me a wuss but whatev.

If I rolled my brand new jeep, I'd wish I was dead.
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:29 PM   #4
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This very reason is why I go slow off road and even slower at night. One simple washout or bit of geologic subsidence and one'll be lucky to be found/recovered before the animals get to the remains.
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:34 PM   #5
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Hey All,

It's called paying attention. Combine a relatively quick steering short wheelbase vehicle with a bit too much speed on washboard dirt and there you are. Fortunately nobody seriously hurt.

I almost wrecked my grandparents brand new Ford Bronco on a washboard back about 70 or 71. Ton and a half loaded grain truck I drove that morning didn't even notice the washboard but that bronco sure did. Dont know how I didn't wreck their new Bronco as I was outta control and half sideways but apparently the road smoothed out - tires regripped and I only went onto the shoulder on the wrong side of the road. Scared the kkrraapp outta me - I respect washboards ever since.

-Ed-
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Old 08-17-2014, 04:36 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bent jeep View Post
Honestly I can't ever see myself doing anything to the point of rolling it over. Anytime my butt starts to pucker I just back away. Call me a wuss but whatev.

If I rolled my brand new jeep, I'd wish I was dead.
This was not "offroad" per se. This was a pretty much graded dirt road. It has nothing to do with "pucker".

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2five22 View Post
This very reason is why I go slow off road and even slower at night. One simple washout or bit of geologic subsidence and one'll be lucky to be found/recovered before the animals get to the remains.
They were going slow too...
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Old 08-17-2014, 06:56 PM   #7
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Slow being a relative and subjective assessment. You say slow, but clearly it was fast enough. Physics is unforgiving, but fair. Good point on armor for the occupants. Don't stop with the cage, get real deal belts and seats as well.
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Old 08-17-2014, 07:54 PM   #8
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The '78 has a real roll cage on it reinforced with some extra bars too. God knows that I've almost rolled it more than a couple times. It has been rolled before, but not by me. The only thing that happened to it was a dent on the hood you can barely see.... this was in sand dunes.
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Old 08-17-2014, 07:58 PM   #9
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I am going back and forth on next steps for my JK and PSC sport cage is starting to take priority.
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:05 PM   #10
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[QUOTE=mommymallcrawler;12728362



They were going slow too...[/QUOTE]

Sorry to hear about their accident, but apparently they weren't going slow enough.
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Old 08-18-2014, 02:14 AM   #11
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What's wrong with factory roll cage? Teraflex rolled theirs and walked away. Fairly high speed!
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:34 AM   #12
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What's wrong with factory roll cage? Teraflex rolled theirs and walked away. Fairly high speed!
In the first pic of this weekends roll, notice that the roof is still straight and intact as is the cage.

Factory cage...
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Old 08-18-2014, 07:41 AM   #13
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What's wrong with factory roll cage? Teraflex rolled theirs and walked away. Fairly high speed!
It never has been a roll cage. Even when the "cage" part itself was pretty robust, anchor points were flimsy. That's probably why Jeep started calling the exposed "cage" a "light bar" a number of years ago.

Also, remember that when you put a real roll cage in the interior of your jeep, you need head protection in situations where you'll be likely to need protection of the cage. Unyielding surfaces in close proximity to your brain never seem to work out very well.
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:02 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by mommymallcrawler View Post
In the first pic of this weekends roll, notice that the roof is still straight and intact as is the cage.

Factory cage...
This one was quite obviously a higher speed roll than the first.

Low speed rollovers with the factory cage:

2011 Jeep Wrangler Safari Roll over! - YouTube

4-Wheel Roll Over Accident Part 1 Heart Attack Hill Anza Borrego Springs - YouTube

Wrangler rollover!!!!! - YouTube

JK Rubicon Rollover - YouTube
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Old 08-18-2014, 11:50 AM   #15
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I just watched the last one. That was a single roll into soft mud and that whole front cage at the windshield came down and the roof is mangled. You take your chances with the factory cage, your choice.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:47 PM   #16
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I just watched the last one. That was a single roll into soft mud and that whole front cage at the windshield came down and the roof is mangled. You take your chances with the factory cage, your choice.
There are 4 videos in that post for a reason.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:57 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Bubba68CS View Post
There are 4 videos in that post for a reason.
I am not going to waste my mobile bandwidth. You take your chances with that. I will cage. Then we can both go roll our Jeeps and see who comes back to post pictures.
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Old 08-18-2014, 02:36 PM   #18
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I am not going to waste my mobile bandwidth. You take your chances with that. I will cage. Then we can both go roll our Jeeps and see who comes back to post pictures.
Then don't reply. You did the equivalent of ignoring what was said and then acting as though you understood the point well enough to refute it. You clearly don't...you've already tried to pass off an obvious high speed roll over as proof of the stock cage's weakness...then tried to discredit 1 of 4 videos clearly showing the stock cage has no issues protecting occupants with low speed rolls.

You can roll yours...I have no plans to do anything of the like.
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Old 08-18-2014, 02:44 PM   #19
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I wish you luck and safety. It is doing a disservice to forum members telling them that the stock bars are sufficient to protect them in a real roll down an embankment. I hope they are wise enough to err on the side of safety.
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:50 PM   #20
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Everything in life has risks. Everyone has choices on how we mitigate those risks. Some people wear helmets when they ride motorcycles. Some people just don't ride motorcycles. Life is all about compromises. Just because you sadly witnessed a friend of yours roll his Jeep does not mean that everyone must immediately go out and buy a full cage. I understand where you are coming from, and that it hits close to home for you, but most of us are just fine with the factory bars.
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:54 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by mommymallcrawler View Post
I wish you luck and safety. It is doing a disservice to forum members telling them that the stock bars are sufficient to protect them in a real roll down an embankment. I hope they are wise enough to err on the side of safety.


All I'm doing is offering evidence rather than hearsay, fear mongering, and speculation.

If you do anything extreme, it should be obvious a beefed up cage is recommended. But if you're doing something extreme - you likely aren't doing it in a stock Jeep...and you likely know you are putting yourself in a position to roll on a frequent basis...
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:55 PM   #22
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Also would like to point out from the 4 videos linked: Don't listen to bad spotters!! Know your vehicle and if you feel it leaning turn into the lean not away from it!
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Old 08-18-2014, 04:57 PM   #23
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Also would like to point out from the 4 videos linked: Don't listen to bad spotters!! Know your vehicle and if you feel it leaning turn into the lean not away from it!
Had the same thought - REALLY bad spotting.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:00 PM   #24
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Yeah, that last video was massive driver and spotter error.

That wasn't a "soft roll", that was hard roll down what looked like a nine or ten foot enbankment. The driver still walked away. At first I though the throttle got stuck or something.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:06 PM   #25
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Yeah nothing soft about that. In fact that last video had the hardest roll of all of them.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:18 PM   #26
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What's wrong with factory roll cage? Teraflex rolled theirs and walked away. Fairly high speed!
As the pic shows below your post the front member of the stock "cage" is often the the point of catastrophic failure. I've seen a few owners run a longer more stout member all the way down but it can take up a significant amount of the door space and make it awkward to get for large drivers.

With all due respect to occupants of the Jeep, you don't just drive down a dirt path at slow speed and flip over a vehicle like that into a ravine because you catch a washboard. The driver must have been distracted, impaired vision at dusk and got to close to edge which gave out or the speed wasn't so low.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:31 PM   #27
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There's a tight curve, off camber and rutted on my way to my favorite fishing spot. It always catches me not paying attention. I come in too hot and I'm fighting to hold my line as I feather my brakes. But I manage to do it every time. It feels and looks worse than it is. Slow speed roll over on a flat road? I just don't think that's that the whole story.

But I looked into cages. Seems like a no brainier until you realize you've got a much higher chance of getting into an accident on the road, all four tires on the pavement than a roll over on the trail. Then the cage is just more solid metal to closer to your brain. I'm not saying cages aren't an effective safety device but they have a downside. I'm on pavement, like most of you, far more often than I am on the trail. I'm in control on the trail. On the road, I have to contend with all the other idiots.

Life is a series of trade offs. I think the cage poses more harm on road than it might potentially prevent off road.
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Old 08-18-2014, 05:55 PM   #28
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Wow. I found myself wanting to scream SHUT UP YOU MORON at the spotters in #1 and 2. I mean... WTH were they thinking? Clearly they had no idea what they were doing. And that's fine. If you don't know what you're doing, then don't offer advice. But that's the problem with the world today. It seems like the people that don't have a clue are the first to step up and offer advice.
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Old 08-18-2014, 06:59 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by mommymallcrawler View Post
A roll cage!!!!!! This is what happened to one rig on a simple washboard road on the way home from our club run yesterday - caught a washout with a tire and rolled a few times! Luckily they were not alone and had other jeepers with them to get them to the hospital, and that they suffered no serious injuries! This was on a DIRT ROAD, not on sideways rocks! So many posts here about tires and gears and lifts and armor - none of it means smack if the living bodies inside dont walk away in one piece! I have just reassessed my priorities for my build.... Who here runs real cages? Post up your pics!
I appreciate the reminder and as per the original post, I too would like to see who is running real cages and what they look like

I'd be curious about beefing up the roll protection but in my ignorance, I am concerned about the introduction of additional hard surfaces to crack your head on. For those who've seen, or have real roll cages, is this an issue?
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Old 08-18-2014, 07:13 PM   #30
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Ready for my awesome idea? Ditch that folding windshield non-sense and provide some actual structural integrity to that part of the Jeep. Oh, snap! Muahahahaha.

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