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Old 02-02-2013, 06:35 AM   #91
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Is it me or there are way more Unlimited Jeeps than there are 2 doors?

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Originally Posted by CosmoMonster View Post
What really happened with the whole 2 dr / 4 dr thing was all the guys that used to drive 2dr grew up an got married, then kids happened and then ... Well , most of us convinced the wife that the jeep four door was the way to go with the kids. Or something like that. There has to be some humor in this.
Bingo. Had a 2 door TJ my wife and I loved. Along came our son and I moved up to a 4 door JK for the room and convenience yet it's still a Jeep.

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Old 02-02-2013, 06:36 AM   #92
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Isn't it great a choice for the needs of the buyers. For me a 2dr was just what I needed I removed the back seat the day I brought it home. For the wheeling we do here in Michigan it's great for us. Since my wife drives a Suburban as our DD our off road toy the 2 dr Jeep.
Had I been looking for nothing more than a toy, I'd have gotten a two-door, just based on price alone. I needed a daily driver and the Unlimited was the perfect choice. I've needed the extra space more than a few times.

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Originally Posted by CosmoMonster View Post
What really happened with the whole 2 dr / 4 dr thing was all the guys that used to drive 2dr grew up an got married, then kids happened and then ... Well , most of us convinced the wife that the jeep four door was the way to go with the kids. Or something like that. There has to be some humor in this.
Dunno about anyone else but where's the fun in owning a toy if you can't share the experiences with both, your wife and kids? Not to mention, you really wouldn't have fun with your wife, either, because she'd be at home with the brood while you're out galavanting around in your toy that won't fit three kids in the rear. The four-door Unlimited is the best thing to ever happen to a Wrangler and Jeep, for that matter. The sales numbers speak for themselves; 60% of us wanted and/or needed a four-door Jeep. Good thing, too, because I would have wound up in an H3.

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Old 02-02-2013, 07:45 AM   #93
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Some comments in here are ridiculous. Its a matter of personal preference. I like my two door. I dont need a four door. If I did, I would have got one, as there is nothing else with 4 doors that comes close. They BOTH have their unique advantages and drawbacks. Yes, the four door helped save Chrysler and Jeep. Sales are insane. If soccer moms want to buy them and drive them great. If college girls want to buy a two door and drive it, great. As long as THEY do, WE benefit. Look at the jump in engineering from the TJ to the JK. You think that would have been possible if they didnt plan on marketing big sales? My only fear is it worked so well, the Wrangler loses its identity and off road capabilities for more street friendliness when its refreshed. I think ALL of us can agree on that.
Based off the the fallout posts resulting from SPOOLS post, this ^^ post is where the thread should of ended. socal-jk, this was a great post. I also understand where your concern is coming from regarding Jeeps being watered down based on who is buying them.

That said, I do not think it is going to be a problem. Jeep knows the formula that makes it popular. It views the Wrangler as the top of the branding Totem Pole. You cannot have an honest adherence to a brand without an honest product. People have NOT taken their Jeeps off-roading for quite a while, and Jeep knows it. That notwithstanding, Jeep also knows that customers purchase Wranglers because they like to think that they can go off-road... "If they have or want to."

Hopefully Jeep uses the money from the "soccer moms" (emphasis on the "air quotes") and pumps it back into Wrangler development, to include improving its off-rod performance. They gotta pay for diesel RDT&E somehow.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:07 AM   #94
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Based off the the fallout posts resulting from SPOOLS post, this ^^ post is where the thread should of ended. socal-jk, this was a great post. I also understand where your concern is coming from regarding Jeeps being watered down based on who is buying them.

That said, I do not think it is going to be a problem. Jeep knows the formula that makes it popular. It views the Wrangler as the top of the branding Totem Pole. You cannot have an honest adherence to a brand without an honest product. People have NOT taken their Jeeps off-roading for quite a while, and Jeep knows it. That notwithstanding, Jeep also knows that customers purchase Wranglers because they like to think that they can go off-road... "If they have or want to."

Hopefully Jeep uses the money from the "soccer moms" (emphasis on the "air quotes") and pumps it back into Wrangler development, to include improving its off-rod performance. They gotta pay for diesel RDT&E somehow.
And therein lies the problem with everything you said. The Wrangler's success will be its failure. The days for the solid rear/front axles are numbered. The Wrangler will eventually wind up with an IFS and Jeep will simply still market it as being some awesome, rugged, offroader. They'll market it as the most capable vehicle on the trail, but just refined. You said it yourself, "people like to think they can go offroad."

It happens with everything; success will be failure. It doesn't matter whether it's vehicles, Tonka toys, or music (Look no further than Metallica and KISS...).

None of us want to see the Wrangler turned into another "typical" SUV, but if the public is crying for a more "relaxed" Wrangler, it's going to happen. The fact is that most people never take their Jeeps offroad, and if they do, they're not rock crawling. The market for a vehicle like the Wrangler is a small one amongst the automotive landscape. eight out of 10 people aren't going to sit there and say, "I want a vehicle without air conditioning, power windows, or power locks!" Chrysler execs know this stuff. They aren't worried about whether or not their loyal fanbase hates their new creation, they're worried about the bottom line and pleasing the stockholders.

We can talk about "formulas the fans like" and so forth, but even the next Mustang will have an IRS setup. It's already happened to the Camaro. Even Nissan's Pathfinder is no longer on a truck platform. That just changed with their redesign...yet Nissan is still trying to market the Pathfinder as being "capable."

Buy'em up while you can, folks, because it wouldn't surprise me in the very least if the next Wrangler debuts with an IFS.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:22 AM   #95
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Except that you forget that Jeep already has the softer "soccer mom" vehicles in their lineup, AND the Wagoneer is going to satisfy all the "moms" who want Jeep ruggedness with some refinement to boot. Jeep had no reason to soften the new Wrangler. Why would you bastardized your halo vehicle? Camaro and Mustang are completely different stories, not even on the level with Wrangler. Wrangler solids axels actually serve a purpose, Mustangs solid axle was all about cost.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:25 AM   #96
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4 doors are way more popular with families. I'd love to get my wife one, but she won't give up the Sequoia.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:26 AM   #97
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Except that you forget that Jeep already has the softer "soccer mom" vehicles in their lineup, AND the Wagoneer is going to satisfy all the "moms" who want Jeep ruggedness with some refinement to boot. Jeep had no reason to soften the new Wrangler. Why would you bastardized your halo vehicle? Camaro and Mustang are completely different stories, not even on the level with Wrangler. Wrangler solids axels actually serve a purpose, Mustangs solid axle was all about cost.
That's great, but some of those soccermoms are going to want a convertible to go with their mommy-mobiles, especially if they're similarly priced. If you're a soccer-mommy looking for an SUV and you come across a convertible model and a non-convertible model that are similarly priced, you mean to tell me you're not going to look at the convertible? C'mon now...
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:40 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by Con Artist

And therein lies the problem with everything you said. The Wrangler's success will be its failure. The days for the solid rear/front axles are numbered. The Wrangler will eventually wind up with an IFS and Jeep will simply still market it as being some awesome, rugged, offroader. They'll market it as the most capable vehicle on the trail, but just refined. You said it yourself, "people like to think they can go offroad."

It happens with everything; success will be failure. It doesn't matter whether it's vehicles, Tonka toys, or music (Look no further than Metallica and KISS...).

None of us want to see the Wrangler turned into another "typical" SUV, but if the public is crying for a more "relaxed" Wrangler, it's going to happen. The fact is that most people never take their Jeeps offroad, and if they do, they're not rock crawling. The market for a vehicle like the Wrangler is a small one amongst the automotive landscape. eight out of 10 people aren't going to sit there and say, "I want a vehicle without air conditioning, power windows, or power locks!" Chrysler execs know this stuff. They aren't worried about whether or not their loyal fanbase hates their new creation, they're worried about the bottom line and pleasing the stockholders.

We can talk about "formulas the fans like" and so forth, but even the next Mustang will have an IRS setup. It's already happened to the Camaro. Even Nissan's Pathfinder is no longer on a truck platform. That just changed with their redesign...yet Nissan is still trying to market the Pathfinder as being "capable."

Buy'em up while you can, folks, because it wouldn't surprise me in the very least if the next Wrangler debuts with an IFS.
Precisely. Great post.
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Old 02-02-2013, 08:49 AM   #99
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Precisely. Great post.
It's a scary thought. The amount of enthusiast-based vehicles is quickly shrinking. I'd really love to believe the Wrangler will stay true to its truckish roots and continue to be the hardcore offroader as we know it but I'm just not confident.

The Chrysler company is owned by Italians. The Italians aren't exactly known for being offroading enthusiasts. The only hopes the Wrangler has of continuing to be built for the offroad enthusiasts will be coming from the American designers and engineers, and they're going to have to present one hell of a business case as to why the formula of the Wrangler shouldn't change, so we better hope they're damned good manipulators.

Unfortunately, in this day and age, "heritage" doesn't mean shit. GM stuck "SS" badges on every damned vehicle they built. Goes to show you how important that "SS" heritage really is...
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:02 AM   #100
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If there were only jk models....i wouldnt be a jeep owner today.

4 doors or go home
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:23 AM   #101
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So.....production numbers? Or did I miss it, buried in the bickering?
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:11 AM   #102
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If there were only jk models....i wouldnt be a jeep owner today.

4 doors or go home
Yep, would have never even looked at a Wrangler otherwise, and none of the other Jeep products interested me. I have two kids, the JKU is perfect for me. I would buy a JKU-L in a heartbeat. (And throw in that 30mpg diesel while your at it please).
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:19 AM   #103
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Nissan needed a three row CUV. They already had the truck based SUV covered with the Xterra, which sells ok but nowhere near Wrangler numbers. And the Pathfinder sold just slightly better than the Xrerra. Both of which were fairly low volume vehicles. So they smartly ditched 2 truck based SUV's and created a new CUV that they named Pathfinder. Let's face it, the Pathfinder died in 2012. It'd be the same as Jeep creating the Wagoneer off the Durango underpinnings, killing the Wrangler entirely and instead naming this new Durango clone the Wrangler. Not going to happen.

Jeep IS Wrangler...PERIOD.

All those other truck based 4x4's that have died off with their solid axels and all were NOT, and were never going to be those brands "HALO" vehicles. That is the main point here.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:28 AM   #104
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Just make sure all of you write jeep customer service an email, like I did, explaining all the reasons you love your Wrangler for everything it is, and more importantly, for everything it ISN'T. It helps to hear from the people that buy them and will use the other shift lever and skid plates.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:46 AM   #105
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I wonder how long it'll be before the thread gets shut down. I'm seeing holes in the dam, being plugged with hatred and jealousy.
I don't see anything wrong, we're just Jeepers who are passionate about our own Jeeps, whether that be a 2 or 4 door...of course we are gonna stand behind our purchases. Many who like the 2 door better, like myself, know that if we actually needed more passenger & cargo room we'd get the 4 door in a heartbeat, I know I would. Still better than any other SUV out there!
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:45 PM   #106
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If there were only jk models....i wouldnt be a jeep owner today.

4 doors or go home
Same here. It'd be an H3 or F150 for me...
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Old 02-02-2013, 12:49 PM   #107
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Nissan needed a three row CUV. They already had the truck based SUV covered with the Xterra, which sells ok but nowhere near Wrangler numbers. And the Pathfinder sold just slightly better than the Xrerra. Both of which were fairly low volume vehicles. So they smartly ditched 2 truck based SUV's and created a new CUV that they named Pathfinder. Let's face it, the Pathfinder died in 2012. It'd be the same as Jeep creating the Wagoneer off the Durango underpinnings, killing the Wrangler entirely and instead naming this new Durango clone the Wrangler. Not going to happen.

Jeep IS Wrangler...PERIOD.

All those other truck based 4x4's that have died off with their solid axels and all were NOT, and were never going to be those brands "HALO" vehicles. That is the main point here.
Also keep in mind the Pathfinder isn't exactly Nissan's halo vehicle. With Jeep, the Wrangler is the brand, then there are the rest of them, however, the Grand Cherokee has most certainly made a name for itself as nearly just as much of a "face" of Jeep.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:00 PM   #108
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Is it me or there are way more Unlimited Jeeps than there are 2 doors?
If the current poll in another thread is any indication it looks to be about a 50-50 split.

We bought a two door and took the rear seat out several days after we brought it home. No need for any additional passengers and certainly no need for more than two side doors. I could give additional reasons but that may lead to locking this thread.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:06 PM   #109
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If the current poll in another thread is any indication it looks to be about a 50-50 split.

We bought a two door and took the rear seat out several days after we brought it home. No need for any additional passengers and certainly no need for more than two side doors. I could give additional reasons but that may lead to locking this thread.
I would imagine that poll is heavily skewed since I'd reason that most 2 door owners are Jeep enthusiasts and more likely to be members of Jeep forums. You don't have soccer moms and average buyers who favor the 4 doors here looking for ways to improve and mod their vehicles and such.

All you have to do is look at the real sales data which I think has been presented earlier. Everything else is anecdotal evidence.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:12 PM   #110
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Jeep Wrangler so popular Chrysler to add workers



Wrangler has had strong sales since the introduction of the four-door Wrangler Unlimited in 2007, and sales have boomed since Chrysler installed its 3.6-liter V-6 Pentastar engine and five-speed automatic transmission in the off-roader for the 2012 model year.

Chrysler says about two-thirds of Wranglers sold are the more expensive, four-door Unlimited models.

----------
Yup, bringing in the JKU in 2007, along with the updated engine and tranny in 2012 (and the interior in 2011) has really helped Chrysler attract a new market of buyers.
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Old 02-02-2013, 01:17 PM   #111
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I like my CJ 7, I love my 2 door JKR but next jeep will be a JKUR and I'll pull out the back seats.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:23 PM   #112
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I like my CJ 7, I love my 2 door JKR but next jeep will be a JKUR and I'll pull out the back seats.
unfortuneately pulling the back seats out of a JKU is a pain and not like pulling them out of the JK, they do fold out of the way tho.
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Old 02-02-2013, 03:45 PM   #113
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There was extended "Unlimited" version of the TJ. Not JK.

That's the one. .

I haven't seen any limited JKs, they're all four doored unlimited.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:10 PM   #114
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Sorry i'm not up to date on terminology. What is "IFS" ??
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:14 PM   #115
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Sorry i'm not up to date on terminology. What is "IFS" ??
Independent front suspension. Jeepers tend to cringe when they hear this. It's great for roads and sand, but while rock crawling it leaves the diffs dangerously exposed
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:24 PM   #116
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Actually the diff is way more prorected then ours and have more center clearance its just the CV joints are weak links and they dont articulate
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:42 PM   #117
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That's the one. .

I haven't seen any limited JKs, they're all four doored unlimited.
2 door Unlimiteds were only made 04-06 I believe. I like em.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:32 PM   #118
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Long live the solid front axle!
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Old 02-04-2013, 05:03 AM   #119
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Based off the the fallout posts resulting from SPOOLS post, this ^^ post is where the thread should of ended. socal-jk, this was a great post. I also understand where your concern is coming from regarding Jeeps being watered down based on who is buying them.

That said, I do not think it is going to be a problem. Jeep knows the formula that makes it popular. It views the Wrangler as the top of the branding Totem Pole. You cannot have an honest adherence to a brand without an honest product. People have NOT taken their Jeeps off-roading for quite a while, and Jeep knows it. That notwithstanding, Jeep also knows that customers purchase Wranglers because they like to think that they can go off-road... "If they have or want to."

Hopefully Jeep uses the money from the "soccer moms" (emphasis on the "air quotes") and pumps it back into Wrangler development, to include improving its off-rod performance. They gotta pay for diesel RDT&E somehow.
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And therein lies the problem with everything you said. The Wrangler's success will be its failure. The days for the solid rear/front axles are numbered. The Wrangler will eventually wind up with an IFS and Jeep will simply still market it as being some awesome, rugged, offroader. They'll market it as the most capable vehicle on the trail, but just refined. You said it yourself, "people like to think they can go offroad."

It happens with everything; success will be failure. It doesn't matter whether it's vehicles, Tonka toys, or music (Look no further than Metallica and KISS...).

None of us want to see the Wrangler turned into another "typical" SUV, but if the public is crying for a more "relaxed" Wrangler, it's going to happen. The fact is that most people never take their Jeeps offroad, and if they do, they're not rock crawling. The market for a vehicle like the Wrangler is a small one amongst the automotive landscape. eight out of 10 people aren't going to sit there and say, "I want a vehicle without air conditioning, power windows, or power locks!" Chrysler execs know this stuff. They aren't worried about whether or not their loyal fanbase hates their new creation, they're worried about the bottom line and pleasing the stockholders.

We can talk about "formulas the fans like" and so forth, but even the next Mustang will have an IRS setup. It's already happened to the Camaro. Even Nissan's Pathfinder is no longer on a truck platform. That just changed with their redesign...yet Nissan is still trying to market the Pathfinder as being "capable."

Buy'em up while you can, folks, because it wouldn't surprise me in the very least if the next Wrangler debuts with an IFS.
I wonder.....how much blame is going to be laid at the feet of the "true" Jeepers who are scrambling for the blinged out and bedazzled aniversary Rubicon in all its red leather glory or the latest, greatest 2013? Granted, the aniversary Rubicon is still a capable off road machine (just as the Sport and Sahara are) but are the niceties really necessary?

Only asking this because the current and future state of the Wrangler is consitantly laid at the feet of "soccer moms" as if Jeep totally ignores all other sales of Wranglers to "true" Jeepers and this somehow translates to the "true" Jeepers being absolved of any influence on new Wranglers.
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Old 02-04-2013, 06:26 AM   #120
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I wonder.....how much blame is going to be laid at the feet of the "true" Jeepers who are scrambling for the blinged out and bedazzled anniversary Rubicon in all its red leather glory or the latest, greatest 2013? Granted, the anniversary Rubicon is still a capable off road machine (just as the Sport and Sahara are) but are the niceties really necessary?

Only asking this because the current and future state of the Wrangler is consitantly laid at the feet of "soccer moms" as if Jeep totally ignores all other sales of Wranglers to "true" Jeepers and this somehow translates to the "true" Jeepers being absolved of any influence on new Wranglers.
Well, not that I'm anywhere near an expert on the matter, but I see how things could happen a few different ways.

A) People are going to buy up the Rubicon 10ths like hotcakes and Chrysler's gonna say, "Ooooh, so people like all those bells and whistles! Let's keep adding them!"

B) People boycott these new "tarted up" special editions and Chrysler says, "Well, we need to do something to lure in new buyers. Let's make the ride more compliant, put in an IFS so it handles more on par with a car, and let's sharpen up the handling. The improvements will make the Wrangler more mainstream." Yeah, "mainstream." Look what happened to Metallica. While they may have picked up a few fans, they completely ditched their old fans, and they're not even respected anymore. They're so watered down, even their songs are mediocre, at best.

For me, I couldn't care less about "true" Jeepers, what they do, how they feel towards people who don't offroad, who they feel deserves a Rubicon and who doesn't, etc., especially when most of them are probably sweating for a 10th Anniversary Rubicon, which is loaded with bells and whistles; yes, hypocrisy at its finest.

Personally, I would like to see the Jeep stay on a truck platform with its two solid axles. It's soft enough for people who want to use it as a "mom mobile" and hard enough for people who want to use it as something else. I feel the Wrangler is right where it needs to be, which is being a great compromise between the two.

When most people go out and buy Jeep Wranglers, they're not focusing on offroad adventures, they're focusing on letting the sun in during summer months or joyriding on sunny days, much like Miata owners. Most Miata owners aren't at Summit Point Raceway every weekend, they're banging around town, maybe down a few back roads, etc...

...And then there are the rest of us who have visions of living "Indiana Jones and the Temple of Jeep;" splashing around in the mud, climbing to the tops of epic mountains, crawling through rocks, and speeding away from Mola Ram who's in hot pursuit with every intention of ripping out our hearts, etc. Those of us are few and far between.

I'm guilty. I had those "Temple of Jeep" visions when I bought my Rubicon. I had visions of being offroad every weekend, traveling epic journeys, blah blah blah...and then I got my first taste of "offroading" and hated it. There are far more other options of offroading I'd enjoy than bouncing around in rock gardens for three hours, but I don't know where to find them. Not to mention, I never took into account I'd be beating the living hell out of a vehicle I'd just dropped $35,000 on. Now that I've parted with the money (and that's a lot of money, I don't care what anyone says...), I really don't want to offroad some crazy terrain.

If the Jeep Wrangler loses its way, it's not going to find its way back to its roots. Let's say Chrysler does decide to drop in an IFS and realizes the mistake, they're not going to go back and say, "Ya know, we really _____ed up on this one, we really need to get bring it back to its roots and install the solid front axle again."

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