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Old 07-26-2012, 01:46 AM   #61
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Caster is key! Driving my 12 JK stock was no problem on the highway at all. I regularly got up over 80 mph w/o any of the scary bump steer that you're talking about. About a month or so ago I added a 2.5" lift, 33" tires, and OME shocks and my 1st drive was sketchy to say the least. Even going over 35 mph I'd hit small bumps and the Jeep felt like it was going to pull me off the road. Going over 70 was downright terrifying. I tried to get an alignment at a Town Fair Tire and ran into the same problem you did. They didn't want to scratch my rims and they did everything they could to convince me that the alignment wouldn't do anything and the problem was I modified my vehicle. I was kinda freaking out about spending that much money to make my Jeep ride like crap. But I got some great advice from the folks on this forum. To solve my problem 1st I lowered my PSI to about 29. This had an immediate impact but the problem was still there. I then picked up a set of AEV brackets and installed those. These brackets have 3 settings that affect your caster (I like to call it rake since I'm a MTB'r). I noticed an instant improvement and was able to get the Jeep comfortably over 70 w/o any bump steer at all. I had my alignment done by a true alignment shop and my toe was a little off but my caster was within parameters but on the low end of the scale so I moved up to the next hole in my AEV bracket and that improved things even more. I was now able to go 80+ and have it feel just like stock. It actually feels better than stock now as the new shocks and lift make it feel better for normal Daily Driving. So my advice like the others is to drop your tire pressure then go to a good alignment shop and pay attention to your caster. Plan on picking up some AEV brackets or LCA's to slacken out the front and get the stability that you're looking for.

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Old 07-26-2012, 03:40 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by MudderNuker View Post
Hi all,

I Wanted to ask the experts here in a last attempt to salvage what I call a love hate relationship.

I love how my 2012 Jeep JKU Sahara looks, the features and capabilities.

I absolutely HATE how it drives.

This thing is hard to drive in a straight line without constant steering input/correction. This wandering can be exhausting on a long trip. I traded a BMW X3 for the Jeep and now I'm looking to trade the Jeep for an X1.

I know it's a Jeep and they are different but what I can't understand is how Jeep sells a vehicle that is really not meant for highway driving at normal Hwy speeds. Sometimes, in windy conditions it even feels scary to drive. God forbid you drive with one hand only while holding your coffee or changing the tunes. Before you know it you are on the other lane or hitting the rumble strips.

The Jeep has a Teraflex 2" budget boost, and 33" tires.

What can I do to improve the handling/steering of this beast? Steering dampers? Magic? Voodoo? Is it even possible?

Thanks for your input.

I'm sure I will get some people telling me it's a Jeep or is a Jeep thing or just live with it because it is a Jeep, please don't.

I'm sure I'm not the only one with this problem, most if not all know what I'm talking about. Don't be shy, its ok, you too call vent about the poor handling.

My girlfriend refuses to drive this thing as she thinks it is unsafe.

Please be kind with your replies.
Uh, didn't you drive it before you bought it? If you hated the way it drove, why'd you buy it? Also, consider you're stepping out of a BMW into a Jeep. I know you don't wanna hear the, "It's Jeep thing," but that's what it is.

FWIW, I HATE the way mine drives too. The best way I can explain it is that it feels like a cruise ship on roller skates. The damned thing wanders all over the road with every bump I hit. It gets a bit disconcerting when I have to drive through construction areas and I have a semi on the left side of me, a barrier on the right, and am hitting bumps. It doesn't seem like it'd take much to either meet the semi or meet the barrier, depending on where the bumps are. I figured the "sensation" was just because I wasn't used to driving an SUV, yet I don't have this issue with my wife's 2012 Subaru Forester.

Given the Wrangler has TWO solid axles, differences in handling can be expected. Despite that, it's scary how different the handling is from a vehicle with either an independent front suspension or independent suspension all around.

In the end, I just really wanted a Wrangler for many reasons, and I just suck it up. FWIW, I wouldn't even bother with a BMW X1, as they're just notoriously crappy vehicles, but I guess if you want a "rich man's RAV4," you'll love it.

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Old 07-26-2012, 04:15 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist

Uh, didn't you drive it before you bought it? If you hated the way it drove, why'd you buy it? Also, consider you're stepping out of a BMW into a Jeep. I know you don't wanna hear the, "It's Jeep thing," but that's what it is.

FWIW, I HATE the way mine drives too. The best way I can explain it is that it feels like a cruise ship on roller skates. The damned thing wanders all over the road with every bump I hit. It gets a bit disconcerting when I have to drive through construction areas and I have a semi on the left side of me, a barrier on the right, and am hitting bumps. It doesn't seem like it'd take much to either meet the semi or meet the barrier, depending on where the bumps are. I figured the "sensation" was just because I wasn't used to driving an SUV, yet I don't have this issue with my wife's 2012 Subaru Forester.

Given the Wrangler has TWO solid axles, differences in handling can be expected. Despite that, it's scary how different the handling is from a vehicle with either an independent front suspension or independent suspension all around.

In the end, I just really wanted a Wrangler for many reasons, and I just suck it up. FWIW, I wouldn't even bother with a BMW X1, as they're just notoriously crappy vehicles, but I guess if you want a "rich man's RAV4," you'll love it.
Jaysus... After reading this, I can deal with the minor Bumpsteer hitting single bumps at 10-30 mpg

Shitty roads/road construction the jeep handles sweet. My good old Rancho shocks do a good job of sucking up the rough stuff.

It's just those man hole covers that are sunk in a bit and one tire bumps I hit.
Waaaaa !!!

No more crying for Ken. Rofl
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:59 AM   #64
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I've only had my JK for a few days and my wife uses it for the 10 mile trip to her work whereas I have a Mercury Milan to commute with for mine. Took the JK to work yesterday for the first time and my commute is all highway for 40 miles and it handled like a pickup truck in that it followed all the grooves and bumps in the road. I was a little surprised that it required mostly 2 handed steering but it still rode 100x better than my TJ! Highway cruiser it is not but that's what I expected from such a short wheelbase vehicle.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:23 AM   #65
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Jaysus... After reading this, I can deal with the minor Bumpsteer hitting single bumps at 10-30 mpg

Shitty roads/road construction the jeep handles sweet. My good old Rancho shocks do a good job of sucking up the rough stuff.

It's just those man hole covers that are sunk in a bit and one tire bumps I hit.
Waaaaa !!!

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Originally Posted by Blackpony04 View Post
I've only had my JK for a few days and my wife uses it for the 10 mile trip to her work whereas I have a Mercury Milan to commute with for mine. Took the JK to work yesterday for the first time and my commute is all highway for 40 miles and it handled like a pickup truck in that it followed all the grooves and bumps in the road. I was a little surprised that it required mostly 2 handed steering but it still rode 100x better than my TJ! Highway cruiser it is not but that's what I expected from such a short wheelbase vehicle.
I WISH this thing rode like a pickup truck! Instead, my JKUR feels like the platform's being wrung like a towel every time I make a turn or switch a lane; the front twists one way, the rear twists the opposite! That's just what it reminds me of, I don't know how else to explain it. It's almost as if the the front half is a truck and the rear half is a trailer in the wind...

WITHOUT A DOUBT, the WORST handling vehicle I've EVER driven, yet I still bought it...
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:29 AM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist

I WISH this thing rode like a pickup truck! Instead, my JKUR feels like the platform's being wrung like a towel every time I make a turn or switch a lane; the front twists one way, the rear twists the opposite! That's just what it reminds me of, I don't know how else to explain it. It's almost as if the the front half is a truck and the rear half is a trailer in the wind...

WITHOUT A DOUBT, the WORST handling vehicle I've EVER driven, yet I still bought it...
You are still stock correct?

And you have a JKU, the longer wheelbase helps.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:41 AM   #67
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You are still stock correct?

And you have a JKU, the longer wheelbase helps.
Makes me wonder how poorly the two-door models handle!

I find it nothing short of amusing when people claim how "nimble" (someone used the word, "nimble...") the handling of his Jeep is. In fact, every time someone claims how well his/her Jeep handles, I can't help but let out a slight snicker.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:04 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist

Makes me wonder how poorly the two-door models handle!

I find it nothing short of amusing when people claim how "nimble" (someone used the word, "nimble...") the handling of his Jeep is. In fact, every time someone claims how well his/her Jeep handles, I can't help but let out a slight snicker.
Plukes statement was correct.
"That's what the aftermarket is for"
Some jeeps handle better than others for sure. Depends what the Alignment was set at from the factory.

I think I has asked this earlier. If it was possible to add control arms for more caster on a stock jeep.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:09 AM   #69
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It sounds like the handling can vary, vehicle-to-vehicle. I have a 2012 JK and it handles fine - if I take my hands off the wheel, it tracks straight. I've taken 3 road trips with it, including one of over 1000 miles, and it was great on both highway & back roads (including some short stretches at 80+, mainly to pass idiots who felt the need to speed up to avoid the indignity of being passed by a Jeep). If I'm going over bumpy roads, it does bounce around a bit - but nothing that I'd consider a problem, or scary (actually, I find it kind of fun). This is my first jeep, but I wasn't driving high-performance cars prior to this, so maybe that's some of it. (I drove Mustangs in the 80s & 90s, then got practical/boring & drove Saturns till last April when I bought my Jeep). Maybe I just got lucky, or maybe I've got a higher tolerance for bumpy rides - hard to say. All I know is that I'm absolutely loving mine (it's still stock at this point, BTW).
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:46 AM   #70
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I'm with jkf. I have a stock Sahara JKU as the family vehicle and a lifted JK for my vehicle. Both Jeeps handle just fine. No problems on long trips averaging around 80. My prior vehicles were a MazdaSpeed3 and WRX so yeah, those vehicles handled way better than the Jeep but that's a whole different animal.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:52 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Plukes statement was correct.
"That's what the aftermarket is for"
Some jeeps handle better than others for sure. Depends what the Alignment was set at from the factory.

I think I has asked this earlier. If it was possible to add control arms for more caster on a stock jeep.
I just had the alignment checked on mine about two weeks ago and the numbers were within spec.

I'm almost certain it's a "JK" or "JKU" thing, as I drove a 2011 model and it felt exactly the same way. Maybe it's just a matter of having never driven a vehicle with two solid axles before. While I can't say the handling is "dangerous," it's just a bit...disconcerting.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:04 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist

I just had the alignment checked on mine about two weeks ago and the numbers were within spec.

I'm almost certain it's a "JK" or "JKU" thing, as I drove a 2011 model and it felt exactly the same way. Maybe it's just a matter of having never driven a vehicle with two solid axles before. While I can't say the handling is "dangerous," it's just a bit...disconcerting.
i have never drove a 4 door but sat passenger in one. It drove a lot smoother than my 2 door at the time.

Shocks IMO play a major roll in handling.

Both the Bilsteins and TF's I tried were way to harsh. Instead of playing the lets hope this shock works game. I bought adjustables and absolutely love them.
City driving I keep them pretty soft and long highway commutes I will stiffen them up some.

Have you looked at changing the shocks ??
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:10 AM   #73
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I'm with those who think that the handling is fine. Yes, bumps in the road at high speed do throw you off your line every now and then. Yes, on the highway you better follow the raceline around corners or you will take them slow or almost tip. Yes, it has an amazing turning radius at slow speeds. Yes, at lower speeds my '12 Sahara feels like it's squating into the corners, as long as I hit the apex of the turn.

Bottom line, you have to DRIVE the damn thing! You can't just sit back and not pay attention and expect to get the most out of it, this is a car that requires you to be involved.

Also, none of you have taken into account so far, the differences between the suspensions on the different models, especially the shock absorbers! I would imagine that the red performance shocks are stiffer than the Sahara heavy duty shocks or the regular Sport shocks, making those cars a lot more stable.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:15 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by bloodfart
I'm with those who think that the handling is fine. Yes, bumps in the road at high speed do throw you off your line every now and then. Yes, on the highway you better follow the raceline around corners or you will take them slow or almost tip. Yes, it has an amazing turning radius at slow speeds. Yes, at lower speeds my '12 Sahara feels like it's squating into the corners, as long as I hit the apex of the turn.

Bottom line, you have to DRIVE the damn thing! You can't just sit back and not pay attention and expect to get the most out of it, this is a car that requires you to be involved.

Also, none of you have taken into account so far, the differences between the suspensions on the different models, especially the shock absorbers! I would imagine that the red performance shocks are stiffer than the Sahara heavy duty shocks or the regular Sport shocks, making those cars a lot more stable.
see above
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Old 07-26-2012, 04:15 PM   #75
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I have a question. How can I get my Jeep aligned if the shop was unable to attach the alignment equipment to the wheels?
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Old 07-26-2012, 05:02 PM   #76
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I have a question. How can I get my Jeep aligned if the shop was unable to attach the alignment equipment to the wheels?
I've seen this a few times lately. And it was the same with me
"I don't want to scratch your wheels" i laughed when I read that because it's the same thing I was told lol

Bullshit... They are lazy.

He did say some shops use magnetic heads which somehow mount to the wheel

I have yet to have it done. Have trust in my good old tape measure and iPhone angle app
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Old 07-26-2012, 06:42 PM   #77
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shocks make a huge difference but should be matched with springs. hence the rubi shocks come with a different spring rate.

kjeeper10: using adjustable shocks is a great idea since you have the ability to "valve" them for your particular coil...that is key.

sounds like some just "settle" for the way their jk's handle. as i have said, pluke has said, kjeeper has said, and many others.... matching the right aftermarket parts WILL improve the handling characteristics.

conartist: i think u would freak if you drove my '12 2-door. this jk handles excellent. it may be hard for u to believe but it is very possible to make it happen. the right shocks, coils, trackbar, caster, toe, wheel backspacing, tires and psi will have u driving a whole new JK. mine is WAY better than it was stock.

op: find another shop that has a seasoned tech and they will get the job done for you.
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Old 07-26-2012, 07:47 PM   #78
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Don't know if it is placebo effect but I dropped the tire pressure to 30psi and it felt much better. Someone mentioned bump steer but I don't think that was my problem. It is just not staying straight on the road. Ever so wandering some to the left then some to the right. But it feels better now after dropping the tire pressure, better not cured.

Funny thing is, if I go out for dinner somewhere and I am going to have a drink, I take my other car. I don't want a cop stopping me for weaving in traffic. LOL
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:16 PM   #79
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MN: in trial of this thread, yesterday I had a 250 mile freeway round trip. On the smoothest part & away from traffic, I determined to see how far I could go without any disconcerting lane drift.

I made it nearly 1/2 mile in each direction before having to take the wheel for a slight correction.

This is as good as anything I have ever owned in that regard.

Now, last week I *did* hit a odd patch of layered asphalt on top of concrete under-pavement in the exact apex of a 'lane closed ahead' sign, that required a rather sharp correction when I about bounced off the median barriers.

I've had a similar jounce happen traveling up the east coast Fwy in Georgia where the hurricane had trashed the Interstate.

Solid axles ain't like your granny's Oldsmobile.

Hope you find a way to get it ironed out.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:07 PM   #80
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conartist: i think u would freak if you drove my '12 2-door. this jk handles excellent. it may be hard for u to believe but it is very possible to make it happen. the right shocks, coils, trackbar, caster, toe, wheel backspacing, tires and psi will have u driving a whole new JK. mine is WAY better than it was stock.
You can make anything handle with the right parts, but when it comes to a Jeep Wrangler, it surely isn't happening from the factory.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:36 PM   #81
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You can make anything handle with the right parts, but when it comes to a Jeep Wrangler, it surely isn't happening from the factory.
Sorry your Jeep doesn't handle well....

Mine has handled beautifully from day one. Tracks dead straight, steers easily, one handed all the way at any speed. One of the best handling vehicles I've had the pleasure to drive.

Maybe it's the luck on the draw, some come out of the factory great, some, not so much. Or, maybe it's expectations, experience, or just personal preference. But I have absolutely no complaints about my Jeeps handling!
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:43 PM   #82
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Sorry your Jeep doesn't handle well....

Mine has handled beautifully from day one. Tracks dead straight, steers easily, one handed all the way at any speed. One of the best handling vehicles I've had the pleasure to drive.

Maybe it's the luck on the draw, some come out of the factory great, some, not so much. Or, maybe it's expectations, experience, or just personal preference. But I have absolutely no complaints about my Jeeps handling!
I've driven 3 JKUs and every one of them handled the same. I guess the dealership by me is getting all the crappy handling ones.

Sure, mine tracks straight for the most part, and it's great on long trips, but I'd guarantee you'd experience the same things with yours as I do with mine on some of the roads I drive.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:44 PM   #83
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No, that isn't a "jeep thing". On my 3rd one, never had one handle the way you describe. Had a VW once that you just couldn't keep the alignment straight that I just had to learn to drive constantly pulling on the wheel, but all 3 jeeps have been fine.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:03 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by rtguy
shocks make a huge difference but should be matched with springs. hence the rubi shocks come with a different spring rate.

kjeeper10: using adjustable shocks is a great idea since you have the ability to "valve" them for your particular coil...that is key.

sounds like some just "settle" for the way their jk's handle. as i have said, pluke has said, kjeeper has said, and many others.... matching the right aftermarket parts WILL improve the handling characteristics.

conartist: i think u would freak if you drove my '12 2-door. this jk handles excellent. it may be hard for u to believe but it is very possible to make it happen. the right shocks, coils, trackbar, caster, toe, wheel backspacing, tires and psi will have u driving a whole new JK. mine is WAY better than it was stock.

op: find another shop that has a seasoned tech and they will get the job done for you.
Thread done
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:11 PM   #85
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.... I'd guarantee you'd experience the same things with yours as I do with mine on some of the roads I drive.
I drive on absolutely horrible, partly "paved", partly not, twisting, steep, and rough roads all the time. that's pretty much all there is here, until you get closer to town.

That's why I got another Jeep. The extra stiff suspension of the Rubicon really makes the ride a piece of cake. In "regular" vehicles, it doesn't take too many miles of these roads to actually exhaust your neck muscles from trying to keep your head on, and your arms from trying to keep it on the road.

I guarantee you that my Wrangler drives beautifully on all kinds of roads, and has a ton of get-up-and-go in town and highway driving. You seem to have a very different opinion of Wranglers.

We'll just have to agree that we have different opinions of our Jeeps for whatever reason.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:12 PM   #86
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I've seen this a few times lately. And it was the same with me
"I don't want to scratch your wheels" i laughed when I read that because it's the same thing I was told lol

Bullshit... They are lazy.

He did say some shops use magnetic heads which somehow mount to the wheel

I have yet to have it done. Have trust in my good old tape measure and iPhone angle app
Lol we did the same thing KJ. I just don't usually admit it bc well it's not really recommended as you know. I treat it like I'm rigging a motor on a wing. Weird method I know but it's worked for me over the years. Lol.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:15 PM   #87
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Lol we did the same thing KJ. I just don't usually admit it bc well it's not really recommended as you know. I treat it like I'm rigging a motor on a wing. Weird method I know but it's worked for me over the years. Lol.
You mount motors on wings of planes with a tape measure and iPhone app? Damn I am impressed!
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:16 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snochick

Lol we did the same thing KJ. I just don't usually admit it bc well it's not really recommended as you know. I treat it like I'm rigging a motor on a wing. Weird method I know but it's worked for me over the years. Lol.
Check this out

Don't laugh, it works great

http://www.oldchevytrucks.com/blog/i...-wheel-toe-in/
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:25 PM   #89
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You mount motors on wings of planes with a tape measure and iPhone app? Damn I am impressed!
Lol I won't admit to u how we mount em. It might scare u from flying anymore.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:30 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by snochick

Lol I won't admit to u how we mount em. It might scare u from flying anymore.
I work in aerospace myself. I say this all the time

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