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Old 10-29-2011, 05:00 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XPADREX

This isn't in direct reply to you, but to the concept.

I paid slightly over $22k for a 4x4 convertible that seats four. Look at the competition in that class, for that money. Wait, you cannot.

I kept it simple, and wouldn't be afraid to get it dirty.

I think some people add a bunch of window dressing, gadgetry, and fluff driving the price up- they cry that it's not a value "for the money".

The Wrangler is an absolute steal when viewed for what it is. When trying to make it what it isn't, it may expose its flaws and be tougher to live with.

I love my Wrangler- but I think I love it for all of its characteristics because of its price range. If I spent $40k on a gilded mall crawler I might get a bit miffed at the rough edges. For what I spent, I think it's a steal.

Now, as far as general hatred:

It's all about expectations. Some folks buy a vehicle and think that's the last dime they should spend. Some folks simply by the wrong tool for the job.

Others take no view of their own culpability in how a vehicle has held up.

I ran a motorcycle business for years with both domestic and foreign brands, and we performed warranty work on all. Some brands got a pass, and others were lambasted.

All I can tell you is that everytime I step to my Jeep, I grin ear to ear- and I get a feeling more four-wheeled conveyances cannot give this motorcyclist.

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Old 10-29-2011, 11:35 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XPADREX View Post
This isn't in direct reply to you, but to the concept.

I paid slightly over $22k for a 4x4 convertible that seats four. Look at the competition in that class, for that money. Wait, you cannot.

I kept it simple, and wouldn't be afraid to get it dirty.

I think some people add a bunch of window dressing, gadgetry, and fluff driving the price up- they cry that it's not a value "for the money".

The Wrangler is an absolute steal when viewed for what it is. When trying to make it what it isn't, it may expose its flaws and be tougher to live with.

I love my Wrangler- but I think I love it for all of its characteristics because of its price range. If I spent $40k on a gilded mall crawler I might get a bit miffed at the rough edges. For what I spent, I think it's a steal.

Now, as far as general hatred:

It's all about expectations. Some folks buy a vehicle and think that's the last dime they should spend. Some folks simply by the wrong tool for the job.

Others take no view of their own culpability in how a vehicle has held up.

I ran a motorcycle business for years with both domestic and foreign brands, and we performed warranty work on all. Some brands got a pass, and others were lambasted.

All I can tell you is that everytime I step to my Jeep, I grin ear to ear- and I get a feeling more four-wheeled conveyances cannot give this motorcyclist.
I completely understand that there are not vehicles in the low 20's price range that are as capable but I am stuck thinking that all of the vehicles should really be in the low to mid teens. I find the notion of spending $20K on a vehicle difficult. My other vehicle is an '01 BMW R1150Gs that I paid $6500 for two years ago. There are a lot of guys that do not have a problem spending nearly $20K for a similar late model GS. I find that idea ridiculous for me.

I probably should have some kind of TJ but I am tall, 6'4", and find most Jeeps to be pretty cramped for me. The JK is not. So, I paid more for my JK than any vehicle I have purchased in my life. I hope it lasts. It is an enjoyable ride that makes me happy, unless I have to fuel it. That is another rant though.

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Old 10-30-2011, 12:05 AM   #33
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I think that Jeeps are like Harley's. You have fans and haters in either. Those that hate on Harley's say the vibrate too much, over priced and so on. But the reason the are priced as much as they are is partly because they hold their value so much. I think it could be cheaper but why would Jeep lower prices when demand is at a all time high. Jeeps are an icon in 4x4 history. They have become famous for their look and ruggedness and with fame comes those that love them and those that hate them.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:11 AM   #34
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:40 AM   #35
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I hate Jeeps for ONE reason.. And damn if it isn't because you can "mod" yourself out of a bank account for aftermarket stuff to customize your ride to your own..uhm, idealistic utopia of offroadiness. I still want that bloody ARB freezer but darned if I can justify the cost. May just xerox a copy of a pic of it and tape it to the inside of the rear door.
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:50 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by kbwwolf View Post
Yeah, mine's just @ the shipping point right now; should have it by end of next week. It won't be my first Jeep, but will be my first Wrangler.

I researched it so thoroughly that I almost felt sorry for the salesman, who seemed to be fairly limited in knowledge.

I'm hoping there will be no problems with it, but if there are I'll deal with them and move on.

Can't wait!
That is really funny...
When I've visited a couple of dealers over the last few weeks I felt the exact same way. I've spent the last few months researching every thing there is to know about 2012 JKU's... I have a good idea as to what to expect....and I feel bad for whatever sales person I deal with.

I'm getting excited. Winter Chill might be available after November 2nd for non Arctic Editions and Black Forest Green should be hitting the showroom floors in a week or so. I'm probably two weeks away from ordering.
Edit:
Hmmm....I'm probably 4 weeks away....for no other reason than to order at the end of the month to see if I can get a better deal. (Unless I don't wait on WC and BFG and order Flame Red on Monday).
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Old 10-30-2011, 08:57 AM   #37
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Here's some perspective:

In 1999, I paid invoice for a loaded out Subaru Impreza Outback Sport. 5-speed manual, power windows, security, AC, cruise, AWD, ABS, skid plates, guage pack... ...and it cost me, in cash, about $19500.

My Wrangler is 11 years newer. ABS, AC, cruise, 4x4, convertible, 6 speed (gained a gear!)... and was less than $3k more. My 2010 Patriot, which has every feature my OBS sport had (we bought a Latitude), cost abbout the same as my Wrangler.

I can understand not wanting cars to be in the $20s, but in today's dollars for the safety features, technology, and everyday conveniences.... ...and if you account for inflation- we're getting a lot of ride for the dollar.

I personally think Chrysler has really stepped up to the plate in terms of value, funky fun factor, etc. versus the competition. When we were shopping- hard- for a new car for my wife (we'd put 230k or so on that Subaru), we wound up with the Patriot which- despite the derision of many- has proven to be a best bang for the buck commuter. My wife gets up to 29mpg in that ride. We've gone all over the country in it, and it wants for little in terms of comfort features. I didn't even know it existed, and it was a fluke that we discovered it- I'm thrilled we did.

I looked at offerings from other manufacturers- and outside of the fact that they all look like a cross between a door stop and a Nike sneaker- they were al $8k+ for a comparably equipped ride.

We have owned Jeeps in the past- I had a Grand Wagoneer and my wife had a Cherokee- but we bought both used after they had taken beatings from prior owners and at a time in our loves when we didn't have the $$ to restore them properly. We bought other brands in the meantime- so it was with fresh eyes and open minds that we came back to the brand for our most recent new purchases... ...and so far, we've been well pleased.
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Old 10-30-2011, 10:12 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by rics1997 View Post
I think that Jeeps are like Harley's. You have fans and haters in either. Those that hate on Harley's say the vibrate too much, over priced and so on. But the reason the are priced as much as they are is partly because they hold their value so much. I think it could be cheaper but why would Jeep lower prices when demand is at a all time high. Jeeps are an icon in 4x4 history. They have become famous for their look and ruggedness and with fame comes those that love them and those that hate them.
This is a pretty good comparison except you forgot to include the comparison of being underpowered in stock form. Both can be improved with money though. The comparison stops when a discussion of where each can go though. Harleys are for the road. I know that some do ride on gravel roads but that is a big exception. Even Buell's Uylleses was not a real dual sport (but it was a great bike). My BMW GS is closer to a Jeep. It is designed to go a lot of places that most motorcycles cannot go and cruise down the highway at 90 all day. It is also like a Jeep in that most GS riders never take their bikes off the highway; they can but they don't.
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Old 10-30-2011, 01:14 PM   #39
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I bought a new VW bug in 1969 for $1982 with all the options, including sun roof. Heavily into dirt bikes and off roading at the time, I used it on motorcycle trails as well as highways around the west.

It replaced my 65 bug, which actually spent time on two wheels balanced with friends on the uphill running boards, to get thru an ill-considered woodsy route to a tavern hidden in the hills.

My beloved VWs had certain advantages Jeeps in those days lacked...such as passable heater/defrosters, great fuel mileage, and wide spread repair shops. They had the ability to go nearly anywhere by any route I chose, in any weather. And by the mid 60s I had grown disenchanted with the CJ2 with all it's foibles.

I once drove Boise to Portland and back, for $5.25 gas each direction....which a Jeep wouldn't have managed.

The old beetles are gone, the Wranglers are degrees of magnitude improved over my previous Jeeps, and I don't have time to even wonder or care about the 'haters'.
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Old 10-30-2011, 04:53 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjt94 View Post
This is a pretty good comparison except you forgot to include the comparison of being underpowered in stock form. Both can be improved with money though. The comparison stops when a discussion of where each can go though. Harleys are for the road. I know that some do ride on gravel roads but that is a big exception. Even Buell's Uylleses was not a real dual sport (but it was a great bike). My BMW GS is closer to a Jeep. It is designed to go a lot of places that most motorcycles cannot go and cruise down the highway at 90 all day. It is also like a Jeep in that most GS riders never take their bikes off the highway; they can but they don't.
Couldn't agree more



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