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Old 03-09-2012, 03:04 AM   #1
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JEEP WRANGLER 2012 RTI Score VS Toyota 200 series RTI score

these vehicles are in a completely different league ,

the 200 series deep down under that stock look is an expedition vehicle , even though its mainly used by soccer moms in the US .

The Jeep is a rock crawling beast .

Its still interesting though to see how well both of these vehicles compare on a basic rti ramp .


Bone Stock Wrangler 2012 , only after market wheels and tyres













With the tyres the RTI score is 626 , bone stock with stock factory tyres its 561 .


Bone stock 200 series Land Cruiser









RTI = 647

Impressive from the 200 series .

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Old 03-09-2012, 11:13 AM   #2
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Okay - I'll bite.

While 'interesting' to review, RTI truly tells you very little about a vehicle's suspension, and all bets are off when you compare two different vehicles. There are just too many variables that affect the outcome; some can be accomodated for, some can't ...

Tire pressure, size of tires, wheel travel ratio from front to rear all affect travel up the ramp and can be adjusted to give a better score.

RTI can't account nor be adjusted for track width. Decrease the backspacing on the wheels on either one of those vehicles and their score goes up ... regardless of whether the suspension is actually 'better'.

Also, RTI tells us nothing about the balance of flex between front and rear. I used to see this on Defender 90 set-ups all the time when they first came to the US. It was EASY to double the 14" of wheel travel in the rear, but relatively hard to increase front wheel travel due to the suspension design. D90s, because of such a low center of gravity, could drive wayyy up ramps with huge increases in rear wheel travel and only marginal increases in front wheel travel - effectively giving them awesome RTI scores ... but the suspension designs sucked in the real world. It's an extreme example, but points out the fallability of RTI.

The update measurement of "CTI", or "Corner Travel Index", is an improvement over RTI IMHO, but it still can't take into consideration track width ... CTI on Wikipedia

And, I'd put a bone stock JK up against a 200 Series off-road any day. ... unless I was driving around the world, then I'd have to say 200 all-the-way.

T

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Old 03-09-2012, 11:22 AM   #3
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That Jeep looks stock. Was the sway bar disconnected? Would have drove over the RTI ramp if so. Also in a real off camber situation the Jeep will have feet more firmly planted than any IFS vehicle.

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Old 03-09-2012, 11:24 AM   #4
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Wheelbase. Impressive nevertheless.

(I do realize wheelbase reduces RTI, but I don't think the relationship between the chassis angles and RTI "reach" are fully defined by the existing RTI calculation. Does that make sense?)
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:25 AM   #5
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I honestly had no idea that these were even slightly capable off road. From the outside they seem like the ultimate mall crawler vehicle for all the soccer parents

I guess I could be at least partially wrong. I like the looks of the wrangler a lot better tho
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:06 PM   #6
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Yeah, Yotas basically rock.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:38 PM   #7
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interesting...
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Old 03-10-2012, 10:49 PM   #8
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According to various sources:

Stock Jeep JK: RTI score = 720 - 730
Stock Jeep JKU: RTI score = 624 - 630
Stock Jeep JKUR, disconnected: RTI score = 820

This guys pathetic Toyota mall crawler = 647 (OPs numbers)


Even the official Jeep website: 2012 Wrangler | 4WD Capabilites Tour | Jeep says:

"Electronic Sway Bar Disconnect
... On a 20-degree RTI ramp Rubicon scored a remarkable 822 with its standard Electronic Sway Bar disconnected ..."


In case you need a recap, That's 647 vs 822.

I call total BS Toyota propaganda!

I'll keep my Jeep, thanks anyway!
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:05 PM   #9
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lol^ nice
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:11 PM   #10
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Jeep vs Toyota Junk.. Yeah I'll stick with Jeep.. Thanks
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Old 03-10-2012, 11:26 PM   #11
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And look at the clearance specs:

Toyota Land Cruiser 200:
Clearance: 8.9”
Approach angle: 30°
Departure angle: 20°..... <- that is absolutely laughable!
Breakover angle: 21°

Jeep JKUR:
Clearance: 10.1”
Approach: 44.4°
Departure: 40.5 deg.
Breakover: 20.8 deg

Jeep - capable off road champ!

Toyota - pathetic mall crawler wanna-be.


I have to admit that the OP has a lot of guts coming on a JK forum and insinuating that the Land Cruiser is a superior crawler to the JK..... Nice try!
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:44 AM   #12
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The Jeep was used as a benchmark to compare the 200 series RTI ( in this thread ) meaning the jeep is a good example in this case .

It was never stated that the 200 is a superior rock crawler .

One is a rock crawler and one is a very durable expedition vehicle .

Numbers aside , i have respect for jeeps and their rock crawling abilities , how ever when it comes to crossing the sahara desert , or transporting people in a war zone . Nothing does it better than a Land Cruiser . Built like tanks and will last a very long time.

You have seen how hard they drive land cruisers in the middle east , its far from a wanna be offroad vehicle .
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:02 AM   #13
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I agree that Landcruisers are very capable vehicles, which have been softened in the USA market for soccer moms. Otherwise very well engineered for the "outback"!

But I still would never choose one for my dailly drive over a Wrangler!
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:10 AM   #14
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I don't know, if someone said "you can have this 2012 Landcruiser or this 2012 Wrangler for free". I'd take the Landcruiser.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:39 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballandchain View Post
I don't know, if someone said "you can have this 2012 Landcruiser or this 2012 Wrangler for free". I'd take the Landcruiser.
^^^ .....And sell the vastly overpriced LC (BASE MSRP $69,120) and buy a couple of JKURs!
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLIDAXLE View Post
The Jeep was used as a benchmark to compare the 200 series RTI ( in this thread ) meaning the jeep is a good example in this case .

It was never stated that the 200 is a superior rock crawler .

.....
Real 20° RTI ramp scores are easily available. The numbers used here were completely bogus. The comparison is nothing more than totally biased Toyota propaganda based on fabricated data. Useless!
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:01 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ballandchain View Post
I don't know, if someone said "you can have this 2012 Landcruiser or this 2012 Wrangler for free". I'd take the Landcruiser.
Not me! - unless it was to sell so i could then buy another JKUR ... and, maybe a new GS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SOLIDAXLE View Post
The Jeep was used as a benchmark to compare the 200 series RTI ( in this thread ) meaning the jeep is a good example in this case .

It was never stated that the 200 is a superior rock crawler .

One is a rock crawler and one is a very durable expedition vehicle .

Numbers aside , i have respect for jeeps and their rock crawling abilities , how ever when it comes to crossing the sahara desert , or transporting people in a war zone . Nothing does it better than a Land Cruiser . Built like tanks and will last a very long time.

You have seen how hard they drive land cruisers in the middle east , its far from a wanna be offroad vehicle .
"Nothing" ... that should be "few do it as well as". And, while Cruisers certainly are amazing rigs (especially those solid front axle variants we don't get in the USA), those Land Cruisers getting heavy desert/military/expedition use aren't 200 Series LCs. Maybe 100 Series if you're lucky, and certainly 80 Series. As for other vehicles, the G-wagon and diesel Defender 110s (particularly the older Tdi) need to be thrown onto that list, IMHO.

As an anecdotal 'case and point', I have a friend who just recently left the State Dept. He was based out of Dubai and they always had 2 vehicles 'at-the-ready' for him - a 100 Series Land Cruiser and a G-wagon.

T
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:02 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill View Post
Real 20° RTI ramp scores are easily available. The numbers used here were completely bogus. The comparison is nothing more than totally biased Toyota propaganda based on fabricated data. Useless!
And, as I said in my first post ... RTI is basically useless: there are far to many variables to change the numbers PLUS it doesn't take into account track width.

T
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:13 AM   #19
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WOW. I'm amazed a comparison was offered between a 4 door boat and a 2 door wrangler. Really! What's next, a comparison between an apple and an orange? Man that toyota is ugly. It should be called DAS BOOT.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandbaja View Post
... Man that toyota is ugly. It should be called DAS BOOT.










"Love" that spoiler thingy over the rear window [/sarcasm]
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:22 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Comac90 View Post
Not me! - unless it was to sell so i could then buy another JKUR ... and, maybe a new GS.



"Nothing" ... that should be "few do it as well as". And, while Cruisers certainly are amazing rigs (especially those solid front axle variants we don't get in the USA), those Land Cruisers getting heavy desert/military/expedition use aren't 200 Series LCs. Maybe 100 Series if you're lucky, and certainly 80 Series. As for other vehicles, the G-wagon and diesel Defender 110s (particularly the older Tdi) need to be thrown onto that list, IMHO.

As an anecdotal 'case and point', I have a friend who just recently left the State Dept. He was based out of Dubai and they always had 2 vehicles 'at-the-ready' for him - a 100 Series Land Cruiser and a G-wagon.

T
I appreciate that you actually took time to reply ,

The 100 series and 200 series have been widely used in military applications , i frequently visit the gulf ( middle east ) and many of the local police forces use brand new 200 series land cruisers ( of course stripped down versions , yet still ifs upfront ) . They are also used in the military
Same goes for the 100 series .

They prefer to use Toyota's over the g wagon , land rovers , mainly due to their reliability and the fact that parts are widely available . In second place comes the Nissan Patrol , it is also widely used but not as much as the Land Cruiser which has earned its place in the region . Not to mention it is by far the most sold SUV / 4x4 of any kind in the gulf .

a few pictures



















it is also popular amongst the armouring companies ,
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:41 PM   #22
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Many 200 seris are also used in the desert ,







]



]
















































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Old 03-11-2012, 02:45 PM   #23
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I think you are on the wrong forum friend. You only mention Jeep twice out of 23 posts. You need to find the Toyota love forum. There is a reason Jeep is an American icon. By chance...do you sell Toyotas in the middle east or in the states?
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:47 PM   #24
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OP: I guess you didn't notice that this is a Jeep JK technical forum. Period. This kind of contentious, off topic post is only going to create animosity and maybe get some of us () in trouble with the mods, because it is very tempting to just get rude with you to see if that will make you go away.

I guess you are interested in this sort of thing, but, can't you find a Toyota LC forum, somewhere, where people might share your interest?




Edit: Yeah, and what sand said, too!
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:52 PM   #25
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Probably my favorite thing about sand wheeling is that the complete opposite type of tire is needed from what is used on other terrains
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Old 03-11-2012, 02:54 PM   #26
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This is just getting annoying and most of us probably really don't care. A JK will go anywhere that 'yota will go and a lot more fun. I'm going to go drive my Jeep now
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:00 PM   #27
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No i am just a toyota land cruiser / car enthusiast in general .
I know you can't compare both vehicles as they are in completely different leagues .

Any way , i appreciate the time you have taken to reply .

Thank you .

Solid Axle
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:04 PM   #28
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:05 PM   #29
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Thanks SOLIDAXLE
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:06 PM   #30
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its completely different to rock crawling , but a sure is alot of fun !


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