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Old 07-08-2012, 03:53 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by neilah View Post
GREAT! Where can I get more than anecdotal data that shows this?!?
You could start by reading complaints from the NHTSA website. Pickup and SUV beds cracking, axles blowing up, engines locking up from sludge, driveshaft recalls, crankshaft recalls, frames literally rusting in half prompting toyota to buy back entire trucks, headlights melting and starting fires, you could go on all day long. Toyota is no less junk than any other brand people like to run their mouths about.

I've owned several new and used vehicles over the past 10 years and the wife has too. The Chrysler products BY FAR have been the most reliable and have spent the least time in the shop.

My father drives a Dodge truck for his job and it's over 300,000 miles now and 6th gear is finally starting to go out and it's finally leaking a little oil. He's gotten his money's worth I'd say. He still drives it daily for work. Point I'm trying to make is just that Chrysler stuff is SOLID. Like anything, it all depends on who owns it and whether they care for it.

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Old 07-08-2012, 04:11 PM   #32
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You could start by reading complaints from the NHTSA website.
WXman, I totally appreciate that. I looked at the NHTSA website and reviewed complaints for 2007 model year vehicles. Nearly 600 for just Wrangler 4x4 4wd Unlimited (non-Sahara) models versus about 380 for all 2007 FJ's. For MY 2007, Toyota sold about half as many FJs as total Jeep Wranglers, so I'd say Jeeps are complained about more often than FJs.

However, reading the complaints are a chore; people gripe about a lot of things.

As for your comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by WXman View Post
Like anything, it all depends on who owns it and whether they care for it.
Absolutely, entirely true.

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Old 07-08-2012, 04:20 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by WXman

You could start by reading complaints from the NHTSA website. Pickup and SUV beds cracking, axles blowing up, engines locking up from sludge, driveshaft recalls, crankshaft recalls, frames literally rusting in half prompting toyota to buy back entire trucks, headlights melting and starting fires, you could go on all day long. Toyota is no less junk than any other brand people like to run their mouths about.

I've owned several new and used vehicles over the past 10 years and the wife has too. The Chrysler products BY FAR have been the most reliable and have spent the least time in the shop.

My father drives a Dodge truck for his job and it's over 300,000 miles now and 6th gear is finally starting to go out and it's finally leaking a little oil. He's gotten his money's worth I'd say. He still drives it daily for work. Point I'm trying to make is just that Chrysler stuff is SOLID. Like anything, it all depends on who owns it and whether they care for it.
I had a 97 ram dually biggest piece of crap I've ever owned. So I switched to ford which was great till 03 when they came
out with the 6.0l. Then I switched to Chevy.

The ram got back under lemon law.
Ford gave me a free lifetime warranty. Because of the problems but I sold it anyway.
Chevy no complaints but no complements either.
Just got an 11 ram dually last year. Best truck I ever owned bar none.

All were dually diesels.
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:22 PM   #34
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Not too bad considering number of units sold.

I meant to quote the above post showing the complaints between fj and Jeep. Damn phone.
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Old 07-08-2012, 04:37 PM   #35
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I really LOVE the looks of the FJ. I wanted one for a while. Never test drove one though. I came off riding a motorcycle every day for the last 5 years, and wanted something as close to riding a motorcycle but with 4 wheels. Jeep was the only option to me, with the removable top and doors. There is no better feeling! The older 4.0 Jeep motors are LEGENDARY. If I could do it over again, I'd probably buy a TJ with the 4.0 in it. Those motors last forever. The cherokee forum that I was a part of had MANY members with cherokee's with 300,000+ miles. Not sure about the longetivity of these newer 3.8L and 3.6L motors, but if its anything compared to the 4.0, you are golden.

Regardless of what you decide to get, I'm sure you'll be plenty happy with it. Both are awesome vechicles. I wanted Jeep because of what it stands for. American made. The culture behind it. Motorcyclist wave to each other, and so do Jeeps. Do you get a wave from a fellow FJ owner? I seriously doubt it. Take some pride in your country and support local economy. I'm sure not everything is 100% american made on these Jeeps, but its good enough for me.
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:44 PM   #36
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WXman, I totally appreciate that. I looked at the NHTSA website and reviewed complaints for 2007 model year vehicles. Nearly 600 for just Wrangler 4x4 4wd Unlimited (non-Sahara) models versus about 380 for all 2007 FJ's. For MY 2007, Toyota sold about half as many FJs as total Jeep Wranglers, so I'd say Jeeps are complained about more often than FJs.

However, reading the complaints are a chore; people gripe about a lot of things.

As for your comment:



Absolutely, entirely true.

Like another member posted, if you look at number of Wranglers sold vs. FJs sold...and express these complaints as a percentage, you'll see that Toyota fails miserably.

Having said that, 2007 was the first year for the FJ and I try to never buy the first model year of anything. There is always a teething period.
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Old 07-08-2012, 06:53 PM   #37
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I'm getting rid of my Wrangler to get an FJ. That's it! I've been over to the FJ forum and asked if they'd rather have a Wrangler and they said no. Imagine that!
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:31 PM   #38
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another stupid thread. were on a roll
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Old 07-08-2012, 07:33 PM   #39
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I'm getting rid of my Wrangler to get an FJ. That's it! I've been over to the FJ forum and asked if they'd rather have a Wrangler and they said no. Imagine that!
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Old 07-08-2012, 08:41 PM   #40
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Perfectly put. Especially how you'll fall in love with your Jeep.

And, for the OP...

Here's my old 1942 GPW. A SEVENTY (70) year old jeep that I owned for for 32 years, pictured as it stands now with it's new owner, who is a member....

Attachment 139013

Edit: still running on it's original engine and drive train!
Very very nice..
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:01 PM   #41
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Both are capable vehicles. I obviously chose the Wrangler. I looked at the FJ, but my wife vetoed it instantly because she thinks it's ugly. I also prefer the look of the Jeep + wanted an American car.

I wanted a convertible + like that the Wrangler has been around for decades vs. the FJ hasn't been around that long. You will definitely find a larger selection of aftermarket accessories for Jeep.

I've also noticed that I rarely see the FJ on the trails. I went to a local off road festival last month (Big Bear Forest Fest). I was looking forward to wheeling with people that drive vehicles other than Jeeps so I could check them out. Sure enough, there wasn't even ONE Toyota in my group of 27. There was even a Ford F250, a Suzuki Samarai. Not one Toyota. Out of around 250+ wheelers, it was around 95% Jeeps. All the vendors were selling Jeep stuff, etc.
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Old 07-08-2012, 09:37 PM   #42
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Fj

HI, if you want a fake jeep get a FJ.
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:24 PM   #43
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I'm getting rid of my Wrangler to get an FJ. That's it! I've been over to the FJ forum and asked if they'd rather have a Wrangler and they said no. Imagine that!
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Old 07-08-2012, 11:38 PM   #44
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Yes, really. If there were a ton of threads specific to my question in search results, I wouldn't have asked
Best of luck regardless of which rig you choose, but do you see the inherent fallacy of posting up an FJ vs. Jeep thread on a forum dedicated to Jeeps? Or vice versa?

What kind of responses did you think you were gonna get? "Oh yeah, I'm such a Jeep enthusiast that I spend time on internet forums dedicated to jeeps so that I can discuss and learn about them all day. And dammit if I don't wish everyday that I was in an FJ."

Sure, you'll see complaints as well as praise about Jeeps on jeep forums. I'm sure you'll see complaints as well as praise about FJs on FJ forums. But, look, no one is a slave to the vehicle they purchased. And if they somehow were, do you think that he/she would go out of their way to spend time on a forum dedicated to that particular vehicle just in the hopes that they can find an FJ vs. Jeep thread so that they can pounce on the opportunity?

If we didn't love our jeeps, we wouldn't be here. Make sense?
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:24 AM   #45
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Best of luck regardless of which rig you choose, but do you see the inherent fallacy of posting up an FJ vs. Jeep thread on a forum dedicated to Jeeps? Or vice versa?
ealive, my original post was asking about failure rates of Jeep components and life expectancy of same; If I should not have said "hey I'm also looking at <insert other vehicle here>", then my bad.
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Old 07-09-2012, 03:09 AM   #46
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Saw a nice running lifted YJ for sale on Craigslist yesterday. Had just over 500,000 miles. 6 cylinder. Looked pretty nice too. It was up in Los Angeles so it's probably 95% freeway miles it's whole life.
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Old 07-09-2012, 05:19 AM   #47
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Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a bit and am narrowing down my next vehicle purchase between a used JK 4dr 4x4 Unlimited and a used Toyota FJ Cruiser. The vehicle will see some off-road but mostly hwy/daily driver, and I'll probably be putting 10-12k miles/yr on the rig. (Off-road: not rock crawling. Likely, lots of dirty/muddy/boggy/snowy/icy roads that would otherwise be entirely impassable in a normal sedan, mainly to get out from civilization and find remote areas to hike into and camp.)

I've searched the forum as best as I can, but I can't seem to find how well Jeep components hold up. I recognize Toyotas tend to have some pretty amazing engineering and legendary longevity with vehicles lasting into 200k-300k+ miles without significant repairs or replacement.

So, how do Jeeps hold up? Should I expect transmissions to fail by 100k?

The vehicle will be in California, and I suspect I will find spots of time to visit the Sierras, Yosemite, Joshua Tree, and more Norcal and Socal spots, etc.

Thanks for any insight, folks. I appreciate it.
ALL vehicles use components such as u-joint, CV joints, clutches, brake pads and rotors; etc. that are actually catagoried as EXPENDABLES. As such to say that Toyotas last longer than those on a JEEP is just ludicrous. If you subject any of them to the same conditions, you can expect results to be very close to the same, especially since it is very likely that most vehicles use the same vendors for their expendable products.

A lot of it is just personal preference. I have yet in my 66 years to find a GM product that I can sit comfortably in!! Does that say that the GM is not as good as a Ford or Mopar?? No way!

In time past, regardless of what Consumer Report says, a lot of foreign steel was just shit; so said Toyota or Honda might still be running after 300,000 miles; but your feet would be dragging the pavement because the floor had rusted completely through!


With all that being said; how well each person MAINTAINS his or her vehicle has much more to do with longevity than ANY brand specific tripe that anyone can come up with.
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:26 AM   #48
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144000 miles

2007 144,00 miles replaced brakes and front end stuff. No other problems. Light wheeling never in rocks. Would/will drive anywhere
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Old 07-09-2012, 06:47 AM   #49
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WXman, I totally appreciate that. I looked at the NHTSA website and reviewed complaints for 2007 model year vehicles. Nearly 600 for just Wrangler 4x4 4wd Unlimited (non-Sahara) models versus about 380 for all 2007 FJ's. For MY 2007, Toyota sold about half as many FJs as total Jeep Wranglers, so I'd say Jeeps are complained about more often than FJs.

However, reading the complaints are a chore; people gripe about a lot of things.

As for your comment:



Absolutely, entirely true.
Say what? If Jeep sold twice as many, it's actually way more than that, then the percentage of Jeep complaints is much lower.

If you really wanted an unbiased opinion (as much as possible anyway) you would have just gone to each forum and simply read instead of creating a thread. Or better yet simply asked if anyone has owned both and asked for their opinion.

I have never owned a FJ and never will. It is an ugly abomination that tried to recapture an unsuccessful vehicle that was a poor copy of an American icon. They couldn't make a superior copy and they failed miserably trying to update that copy. The FJ has been hanging on a thread for several years, barely surviving the chopping block at Toyota.

Years ago it was nearly impossible to find a used Wrangler on a dealer's lot. Now you can, mostly because of the sheer numbers being sold. However, that comes with a premium and Wranglers have been listed at or near the top of the listings for vehicles that hold their resale value. That is a huge indication of the vehicles true quality, not the stupid crap written in various "consumer" magazines.
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:04 PM   #50
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:27 PM   #51
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Well, I think that overall, the FJ will be more reliable and last a long time. However, the JK will be more capable on slow rough trails. I prefer the JK because it is smaller, narrower, and more nimble on the tight trails we have here. Plus, the solid front axle is a bonus.

The big problem the FJ has is a massive blind spot. Other than that, it will handle fast rough roads better (longer wheelbase and IFS) and be a bit more composed on the highway. If all you are doing is exploring and not rock crawling, the FJ may be a better option BUT check out that blind spot, and see if it bothers you. The visibility is much worse.
Longevity- the Toyotas outlast pretty much everything else, with much fewer major repairs. Most of my friends and family are Toyota fans, though I have owned Honda cars and still own a Subaru.

The offroading I do is not rock crawling- just exploring mining roads, forest roads, Moab and CO trails/passes, etc. Some are really slow going since they are rocky and steep. Others are more mild. You will be fine with either but the FJ may be more up your alley. Jeep does sell lifetime warranties too...just do not overpay if you go with a JK. They are overpriced at dealerships.
X2 -

I have both a 2008 FJ and a 2004 jeep. For me the FJ is a great daily driver. It very comfortable for me (i'm 6 ft), it drives great (no steering issues), and zero problems. If you change your own oil, you will love the FJ design! The best part is I get 20 mpg avg. The down side is I needed more ground clearance offroad. I thought about getting bigger tires. That would kill my mpg, performance and handling. So I decided to get a jeep to offroad in and keep the FJ as my daily driver. My jeep is lifted and has 35" tires. I love driving the jeep but it is in no way a daily driver. The on road handling is nowhere near as good as the FJ. Like wise the FJ can not handle offroad like the jeep. Oh and the mpg in the jeep sucks.
I would say for light offroad and a daily driver, go with the FJ...
Oh and about the FJ's blind spot. Yes it's there. But I have had trucks all my life and I got use to using my mirrors. I have no problem with the FJ. If you are use to a car, than yes the blind spot will be an issue.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:04 PM   #52
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This is a friendly discussion , we are adults so I know you can all keep it that way. If not I will close it
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:18 PM   #53
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:20 PM   #54
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JEEP

JEEP

JEEP

now go do the right thing
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:20 PM   #55
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Heck I don't even know why you would look at an FJ. It came down to 4runner or Wrangler for me. If Toyota made a convertible 4runner I would have strongly considered it. Heck if Dodge would make a convertible 4 door Ram, I would have strongly considered it. I am not into rock climbing or mudding. Wrangler is the only convertible 4x4. Now I can't wait for some cooler, dryer weather in Florida to utilize that feature but I will!

As far as buy American argument, has everyone forgotten that Obama gave Chrysler to Fiat? Although I do think the Fiat leadership had done a remarkable job at making them successful again they are now an Italian owned company. If you really wanted to buy American go with Ford who didn't require a taxpayer bailout.

Fiat Plans to Own 62% of Chrysler

Fiat Plans to Own 62% of Chrysler
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:39 PM   #56
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. If you really wanted to buy American go with Ford who didn't require a taxpayer bailout.

Fiat Plans to Own 62% of Chrysler

Fiat Plans to Own 62% of Chrysler
If the Big Blue Oval still made an equivalent of the early Bronco with solid front axle and removable top; guess what!!!! I would be driving one!!!
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:40 PM   #57
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OK, so I realize that renting an FJ does not exactly equate to the ownership experience, but I will share my impression:

1.) the JK is more refined...yeah, I said it. Your opinion may differ, but the FJ I drove in Utah last winter did not impress with its level of refinement.

2.) the FJ does have some known issues...check around. I personally observed the hood flapping about at highway speeds, though at this point I cannot remember if that was the extent or simply the most memorable.

3.) the blindspot is RIDICULOUS. Absolutely huge. The JK is like sitting in a green house by comparison.

4.) speaking of ridiculous, the "suicide" doors. I'm not fond of the concept, though if that does it for you, by all means...

5.) the JK Unlimited will hold more stuff more easily, but the FJ does have a better tow rating (and you can get a TRD Supercharger for it...)

Honestly, I looked at 'Yotas and quickly determined I would be in a 4Runner long before an FJ. The trail edition with KDSS isn't cheap, but it's a capable vehicle and a hell of a lot more practical than an FJ. When all was said and done, I felt you could roll the dice between the JK Unlimited Rubicon and the 4Runner Trail with KDSS depending on how you prioritized their various attributes. However, the JKUR priced a solid 4,000+ less than the 4Runner...and that is a hard attribute to over look.

For what it's worth, the FJ's suicide door does a decent job of keeping the wheelbase a bit shorter to improvde the break over angle on the 'Yota versus the JK Unlimited. The JK, however, kills the FJ on approach and departure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilah View Post
Hi everyone, I've been lurking for a bit and am narrowing down my next vehicle purchase between a used JK 4dr 4x4 Unlimited and a used Toyota FJ Cruiser. The vehicle will see some off-road but mostly hwy/daily driver, and I'll probably be putting 10-12k miles/yr on the rig. (Off-road: not rock crawling. Likely, lots of dirty/muddy/boggy/snowy/icy roads that would otherwise be entirely impassable in a normal sedan, mainly to get out from civilization and find remote areas to hike into and camp.)

I've searched the forum as best as I can, but I can't seem to find how well Jeep components hold up. I recognize Toyotas tend to have some pretty amazing engineering and legendary longevity with vehicles lasting into 200k-300k+ miles without significant repairs or replacement.

So, how do Jeeps hold up? Should I expect transmissions to fail by 100k?

The vehicle will be in California, and I suspect I will find spots of time to visit the Sierras, Yosemite, Joshua Tree, and more Norcal and Socal spots, etc.

Thanks for any insight, folks. I appreciate it.
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Old 07-09-2012, 01:45 PM   #58
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Fords seen plenty tax payer money...


Are we going to pretend Ford didn't get a bail out just because the money didn't change hands as overtly?

Plenty of folks started buying new Fords long before the programmed wear out on the old models at Big G's request.

Additionally, if you spent any time in Iraq or Afghanistan you may have noticed the US Gov't buying Fords hand over fist to gift to our allies over seas.

You could certainly argue Ford didn't need a bailout because they were politically connected enough to avoid being constrained by market competition...though I would argue that government money is government money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeperz Creeperz View Post

As far as buy American argument, has everyone forgotten that Obama gave Chrysler to Fiat? Although I do think the Fiat leadership had done a remarkable job at making them successful again they are now an Italian owned company. If you really wanted to buy American go with Ford who didn't require a taxpayer bailout.

Fiat Plans to Own 62% of Chrysler

Fiat Plans to Own 62% of Chrysler
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Old 07-09-2012, 02:40 PM   #59
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Are we going to pretend Ford didn't get a bail out just because the money didn't change hands as overtly?

Plenty of folks started buying new Fords long before the programmed wear out on the old models at Big G's request.

Additionally, if you spent any time in Iraq or Afghanistan you may have noticed the US Gov't buying Fords hand over fist to gift to our allies over seas.

You could certainly argue Ford didn't need a bailout because they were politically connected enough to avoid being constrained by market competition...though I would argue that government money is government money.
I like the way you think!


Do remember though, that the government doesn't have any money that it hasn't taken through threat of force from the productive individuals who earned it.

It's not government money, it's our money!


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Old 07-09-2012, 02:44 PM   #60
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