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Old 07-03-2010, 08:59 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
You'd be crazy to take them offroad. They can't handle anything difficult like chase a Unimog up a hill or something, go on a cross-country trip, pre-running in the desert, or outback adventure on a Canadian glacier.
Mall-crawlin' sonuvva minivan.













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Old 07-03-2010, 09:47 AM   #32
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I have seen first hand how "capable" the JK is. Last year a buddy took his wife's new Chrysler T&C hunting with us in South Dakota. He put that thing through everything. Everyone thought he was nuts. Well if the minivan can do what I saw the JK will rock off road.

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Old 07-03-2010, 09:26 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by nick50471 View Post
I have seen first hand how "capable" the JK is. Last year a buddy took his wife's new Chrysler T&C hunting with us in South Dakota. He put that thing through everything. Everyone thought he was nuts. Well if the minivan can do what I saw the JK will rock off road.
Heh. I went through that phase when with the Neon club. I, too, took it "everywhere". Here's a picture (15 miles to nearest paved road):
http://people.redhat.com/zaitcev/neo...ozen_neon1.jpg
However, a couple of things disabused me from the notion of off-roading in a road car. First, on a road from Empire to Silphur in Nevada, I caught a stone while doing something like 40 mph. Good thing it wasn't tall enough, so I ended with a mere dent in the cross-member. But it could be an oil pan and a long stop. Second, eventually I found a track that I could not follow (from Double springs to the saddle of Black Rock Point). After leaving Neon stranded for a day and catching the ride in friend's Tacoma, I figured something had to be done.

So, I switched to RAV4, which increased my reach dramatically. I did not have to leave it anymore when tagging along friends with BOF SUVs. Coincidentially, in the same period, a friend took his wife's Odyssey along... and had to leave it (it was in Panoche in California). I don't think the aforementioned T&C would've done it either. In the same Panoche I also received a lesson on the uses of low gear by descending into a ravine from which there was no exit. Again a Tacoma pulled me out. BTW, picture:
RAV4World - Album - 5744
Similarly to Nick's friend in T&C I put in a few displays in RAV4 that impressed local jeepers by reaching places they did not expect me to reach, and even returned from them all under own power. But I knew it was a sham. It was all about taking a good run-on and knowing the exact trajectory through obstacles. Eventually I got tired of it all again.

Enter JK. Rubicon, actually. I already took it to a couple of places which RAV could not reach in a thousand years (a million years for T&C - get to give the water and wind the time to scrub those rocks). And it went pretty well. So, heh.

-- Pete
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:10 AM   #34
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I've had my stock '08 wrangler for about 2 months now. I took it off road for the first time at the beach. It held its own with all the super lifted trucks and heavily modified 4x4s out there...after I learned how to drive on the beach. Drop the tire pressure....I didn't and ended up burried to my axles. Luckily a kind passer by lent me his kids plastic sand shovel to dig out a little and explained i needed to drop the tire pressure. My girlfriend has several pictures of me digging the wrangler out with the little shovel to hold over my head forever. I have been reading a lot on here about off roading and can't wait to try it out in the mountain trails.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:13 AM   #35
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I've had my stock '08 wrangler for about 2 months now. I took it off road for the first time at the beach. It held its own with all the super lifted trucks and heavily modified 4x4s out there...after I learned how to drive on the beach. Drop the tire pressure....I didn't and ended up burried to my axles. Luckily a kind passer by lent me his kids plastic sand shovel to dig out a little and explained i needed to drop the tire pressure. My girlfriend has several pictures of me digging the wrangler out with the little shovel to hold over my head forever. I have been reading a lot on here about off roading and can't wait to try it out in the mountain trails.
If you're going to play in the sand and your Jeep is an automatic....invest in a transmission cooler.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:17 AM   #36
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After the last trip in the sand, I dont know if I'll ever be able to go back. I dont think anyone will let me live that one down. I will add that to my list of things I want to add to the Jeep. I am really starting to see why someone said Jeep stands for "just empty every pocket".
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:21 AM   #37
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It's more of a NEED than a WANT. If the auto's overheat, they can catch fire. Jeep has a currant recall out that put's a "hot oil" warning in place of your odometer. Doesn't really fix the problem....just gives ya some warning to stop and let it cool down. Anything that stresses the tranny can do it, hard off roading, towing, sand, etc.....
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:25 AM   #38
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Wow...thats a handy piece of information. Thanks, I just had the car in for an oil change, no one told me about that. Is that something I need to talk to the dealership about?
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:25 AM   #39
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Post that pix so we can hold it against you too..... Chadwick was daring enough to post pix of his "troubles"

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I've had my stock '08 wrangler for about 2 months now. I took it off road for the first time at the beach. It held its own with all the super lifted trucks and heavily modified 4x4s out there...after I learned how to drive on the beach. Drop the tire pressure....I didn't and ended up burried to my axles. Luckily a kind passer by lent me his kids plastic sand shovel to dig out a little and explained i needed to drop the tire pressure. My girlfriend has several pictures of me digging the wrangler out with the little shovel to hold over my head forever. I have been reading a lot on here about off roading and can't wait to try it out in the mountain trails.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:28 AM   #40
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Wow...thats a handy piece of information. Thanks, I just had the car in for an oil change, no one told me about that. Is that something I need to talk to the dealership about?
If it's an automatic, then the dealership should take care of it for you. Some dealerships are proactive and check for needed recalls, some wait for you to bring in the little card.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:28 AM   #41
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X2 on those pics.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:29 AM   #42
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The JK is not the most capable Wrangler built, BUT is still capable. I do not hate the JK's, so don't get me wrong. The only thing I do not like is when you guys don't wave back.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:35 AM   #43
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Quote:
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The JK is not the most capable Wrangler built,
I'll argue that it is the most capable stock Wrangler ever built. Stock against stock.
But, as for built Wrangler, she's too big a girl to win that contest.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:37 AM   #44
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Well it would really have to depend, like what packages which includes the axle, and such.
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Old 07-04-2010, 11:39 AM   #45
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Here are the pics my girlfriend thought were the funniest...

Let me know if the pics dont load....I'm new to this





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Old 07-04-2010, 12:14 PM   #46
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Did you lower the tire pressure and turn off ESP before running in that sand?
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Old 07-04-2010, 12:24 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernigoober View Post
Here are the pics my girlfriend thought were the funniest...

Let me know if the pics dont load....I'm new to this
looks pretty funny to me too..lol. Hey at least it wasn't mud that you were crawling around in and digging out.
Dagg is right..definately lower your tire pressure at least down to around 15 psi, and turn of that ESP button. And in soft sand like that you dont wanna slow down, keep a steady pace and dont come on and off the throttle.
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:01 PM   #48
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I needed to lower the pressure to about 10psi to get out of that stuff. I made the mistake of trying to drive through other tire tracks. I had the jeep in 4 low, I thought that turned off the ESP automatically. I'm glad you thought it was funny...after my girlfriend laughed and took pictures she helped dig me out.
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Old 07-04-2010, 01:34 PM   #49
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I needed to lower the pressure to about 10psi to get out of that stuff. I made the mistake of trying to drive through other tire tracks. I had the jeep in 4 low, I thought that turned off the ESP automatically. I'm glad you thought it was funny...after my girlfriend laughed and took pictures she helped dig me out.
Well now that your done taking pics..heres a shovel..

your right about the ESP I think...4 lo turns it off, And 4 hi you have to hold down the button for a few soeconds...Right??
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:04 PM   #50
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Well now that your done taking pics..heres a shovel..

your right about the ESP I think...4 lo turns it off, And 4 hi you have to hold down the button for a few soeconds...Right??
Nope.
4lo-pressing and hold the ESP button turns it completely off.
4hi-pressing and holding the button will only turn it partially off.

Otherwise ESP is on all the time, no mater where your transfer case is set.

Or you can do the steering wheel dance and turn it off altogether. That's what I did.
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Old 07-04-2010, 02:27 PM   #51
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Nope.
4lo-pressing and hold the ESP button turns it completely off.
4hi-pressing and holding the button will only turn it partially off.

Otherwise ESP is on all the time, no mater where your transfer case is set.

Or you can do the steering wheel dance and turn it off altogether. That's what I did.
KBR97 is correct. 4lo automatically turns it off. Don't believe me? Put your JK in 4lo. It will say ESP Off where you odometer used to be. "Partial off" will occur after pressing the ESP off button momentarially. Full off will occur after pressing and holding for 5 seconds. This is not the same as "disabling" ESP. Try reading the OM. There is a wealth of information in it.

The ESP system has three available operating modes in
4H range. The system has one operating mode in 4L
range. Two-wheel drive vehicles and four-wheel drive
vehicles in 2H range have two operating modes.
4H Range (4WD Models) or 2WD Models
On
This is the normal operating mode for ESP in 4H and
2WD vehicles. Whenever the vehicle is started or the
transfer case (if equipped) is shifted from 4L range or
NEUTRAL back to 4H range, the ESP system will be in
this mode. This mode should be used for most all driving
situations. The ESP should only be turned to “Partial Off”
or “Full Off” for specific reasons as noted below.
Partial Off
This mode is entered by momentarily pressing the ESP


OFF switch. When in
Partial Off mode, the TCS portion

of ESP has been disabled and the “ESP/TCS Indicator



Light” will be illuminated. All other stability features of



ESP function normally. This mode is intended to be used


if the vehicle is in deep snow, sand, or gravel conditions


and more wheel spin than ESP would normally allow is


required to gain traction. To turn ESP on again, momentarily


press the ESP OFF switch. This will restore the

normal “ESP On” mode of operation.

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Old 07-04-2010, 02:28 PM   #52
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NOTE:
To improve the vehicle’s traction when driving
with snow chains, or starting off in deep snow, sand, or
gravel, it may be desirable to switch to the “Partial Off”
mode by pressing the ESP OFF switch. Once the situation
requiring ESP to be switched to the “Partial Off” mode is
overcome, turn ESP back on by momentarily pressing the
ESP OFF switch. This may be done while the vehicle is in
motion.
ESP Off (4H Range Only)
This mode is intended for off-highway or off-road use
when ESP stability features could inhibit vehicle maneuverability
due to trail conditions. This mode is entered by
pressing and holding the ESP OFF switch for five seconds
when the vehicle is stopped and the engine is running. In
this mode, all ESP and TCS stability features are turned
off except for the “limited slip” feature described in the
TCS section. After five seconds, a chime will sound, the
“ESP/TCS Indicator Light” will illuminate, and the “ESP
OFF
message will appear in the odometer. Refer to
“Compass and Mini-Trip Computer — If Equipped” in
Section 4 of this manual. To turn ESP on again, momentarily
press the ESP OFF switch. This will restore the
normal “ESP On” mode of operation.

N
OTE:

The ESP system will change to “Partial Off” mode if
the vehicle speed exceeds 40 mph (64 km/h). After the
vehicle speed is reduced below 35 mph (56 km/h), the
ESP system will return to “Full Off” mode.
The “ESP OFF” message will display and the audible
chime will sound when the shift lever is placed in the
PARK position from any position other than PARK,
and then moved out of the PARK position. This will
occur even if the message was previously cleared.


WARNING!

With the ESP switched off, the enhanced vehicle
stability offered by ESP and ERM are unavailable. In
an emergency evasive maneuver, the ESP and ERM
systems will not engage to assist in maintaining
stability. The “Full Off” ESP mode is intended for
off-road use only.
4L Range (4WD Models)


ESP Off
This is the normal operating mode for ESP in 4L range.
Whenever the vehicle is started in 4L range, or the
transfer case (if equipped) is shifted from 4H range or
NEUTRAL to 4L range, the ESP system will be in this
mode. In 4L range, ESP and TCS, except for the “limited
slip” feature described in the TCS section, are turned off
until the vehicle reaches a speed of 40 mph (48 km/h). At
40 mph (48 km/h), the normal ESP stability function
returns but TCS remains off. When the vehicle speed
drops below 35 mph (40 km/h), the ESP system shuts off.
The ESP is off at low vehicle speeds in 4L range so that it
will not interfere with off-road driving, but the ESP
function returns to provide the stability feature at speeds
above 40 mph (48 km/h). The “ESP/TCS Indicator
Light” will always be illuminated in 4L range when ESP
is off.

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Old 07-04-2010, 02:28 PM   #53
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NOTE:

The “ESP OFF” message will display and the
audible chime will sound when the shift lever is placed in
the PARK position from any position other than PARK,
and then moved out of the PARK position. This will
occur even if the message was previously cleared.
WARNING!
With the ESP switched off, the enhanced vehicle
stability offered by ESP and ERM are unavailable. In
an emergency evasive maneuver, the ESP and ERM
systems will not engage to assist in maintaining
stability. The “Full Off” mode is intended for offroad
use only.
Disabling ESP for Modified Vehicles (4WD Models
Only)
Vehicles modified with larger tires and/or suspension
lifts may experience early ESP activations as compared to
a non-modified production vehicle depending on lift
size, tire size, suspension changes and/or driving habits.
If early ESP activations are experienced while driving a
modified vehicle, the additional ability to permanently
turn off ESP is available. A steering wheel/ESP button
maneuver must be performed to permanently disable
ESP and defeat the functionality of the ESP switch.
Repeating the procedure will return the system to normal
ESP operation and restore ESP switch functionality allowing
ESP “Partial” or “Off” modes.
WARNING!
With ESP in the permanent disable mode, enhanced
vehicle stability offered by the ESP and ERM systems
is unavailable. In an emergency evasive maneuver,
the ESP and ERM systems will not engage to
assist in maintaining stability. This disabled mode is
intended for off-highway or off-road use only. Vehicle
modifications requiring the owner to configure
the vehicle in the ESP disabled mode, will seriously
affect the vehicle’s roadworthiness and safety and
may lead to loss of control and/or accident resulting
in possible serious or fatal injuries.
The following procedure will disable (or re-enable) ESP
functionality in the vehicle:
1. Shift the transfer case into the 4H range position.
2. Turn the steering wheel until it is centered and the
wheels are pointed straight ahead.
3. Cycle the ignition key OFF to ON.
4. Wait approximately five seconds for the system bulb
check.
5. Turn and hold the steering wheel one-half turn to the
right (clockwise).
6. Press and hold the ESP OFF button for seven seconds.
7. Turn the steering wheel back to center, and turn and
hold an additional one-half turn to the left (counterclockwise).
8. Press and hold the ESP OFF button for seven seconds.
9. Turn the steering wheel back to center.
10. Press and hold the ESP OFF button for seven seconds.
11. Cycle the ignition key to OFF.
After performing the ESP disable procedure correctly,
“ESP OFF” will be displayed in the odometer for approximately
12 seconds each time the ignition is moved to ON.
Repeating the ESP disable procedure will re-enable normal
ESP operation.
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Old 07-04-2010, 03:09 PM   #54
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Ooops I made a mistake. My apologies. ESP is still a pain in the ass and doesn't belong on a Wrangler.
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Old 07-04-2010, 08:20 PM   #55
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Ooops I made a mistake. My apologies. ESP is still a pain in the ass and doesn't belong on a Wrangler.
You can thank the government for it.
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:29 AM   #56
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The JK is not the most capable Wrangler built, BUT is still capable. I do not hate the JK's, so don't get me wrong. The only thing I do not like is when you guys don't wave back.
See my earlier post in this thread. I've been off roading for 50+ years and have plenty of experience with Jeeps and the JK is, without a doubt, the most capable Wrangler built. If I waved at every Wrangler owner here in Durango, I would need another rotator cuff surgery! When I'm out on the trail or even on dirt back roads, almost every one waves.
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Old 07-05-2010, 12:43 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by abw0004 View Post
The JK is not the most capable Wrangler built, BUT is still capable. I do not hate the JK's, so don't get me wrong. The only thing I do not like is when you guys don't wave back.
Sorry but that's just the way it is. The TJ was the best before it and I'm sure the next one will be even better.
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:21 PM   #58
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Great information here folks.
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Old 07-05-2010, 10:13 PM   #59
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I would like to apologize for ever doubting my new girl. Had her out for the first time today, and she did beautiful. Easily was able to keep up with the two other slightly modified jeeps I was with.

My jeep and her first little obstacle.
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Old 07-05-2010, 10:14 PM   #60
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