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Old 10-07-2010, 12:40 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Droelle View Post
Quote unquote from my wife, "its about time I've got some relief."
must not be doing something right, i've never heard a woman complain.

sorry, left yourself open for that one.

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Old 10-07-2010, 12:45 PM   #32
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I actually have both. The Liberty is definitely a family grocery getter that can go on a trail every now and then. The JK craves the dirt and rocks.
Love the craves the dirt and rocks description!!

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Old 10-07-2010, 12:54 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Droelle
Hey this asked a serious question here. We were all new at one point.
I'm with you. No need to give the guy a hard time. Hell, I didn't know what made independent suspension less rock-worthy. That's why we come on here and ask, right? Sure you could go to jeep.com and read a list of differences in a comparison chart. But Jeep isn't going to tell you what makes one of their products suck more than another and why.
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:55 PM   #34
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When I had RAV4.3, I extracted a lot of enjoyment from tweaking jeep snobs by getting somewhere they had trouble getting.

It has to be noted though that there's a real off-roading, that is getting you, your team, your supplies and weapons somewhere you want to get and where there is NO ROAD, and pretend off-roading where pretend jeeps waddle over pretend obstacles. Pretend off-roading requires all the goodies jeep snobs love so much (like SOLID AXLES). Liberty just won't do for pretend off-roading, but it's great for the real one.

You do need the rear locker though, just in case. It helps in a wide variety of traction conditions.

-- Pete
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:06 PM   #35
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Hey this asked a serious question here. We were all new at one point. Me I was never really a fan of Jeeps. I liked them but never really wanted one. Then I test drove it (mind you its just a sport) and fell in love went home did a little research, saw the after market world for wranglers, saw what people did to there rides and the next day it was mine! Every dead gum day I think about something want to do to it. Maybe because I've only had it for 3 months but to be honest I think more about my Jeep then I do sex now. Lol and I'm only 23.
If you go and look, you'll find that there is a very devoted following for the Liberty as well.
I think they are called LOST KJ.

They mod the heck out of them, wheel them hard and have a great time.

It's all about the owner's preference and what they want to put into it. You Will find though that a lot of guys do go with a solid axle, and lockers of course which is a great start with the Wrangler, regardless of the model.

It also depends on what you want to do and where you want to go, how do you expect to compare an SUV to a Wrangler? They are apples and oranges, from the engine, suspension, drive train, interior, weight distribution everything is different. Oh and one of the biggies. You can mod a KJ all you want, but you'll never get it to go topless!
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:18 PM   #36
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OK, there are a lot of differences, suspension/axles, gearing/tranny, body design, interior, all of which are highly modifiable and specifically designed for the trail. The Liberty is not, even though it says "trail rated", it is a capable vehicle but nothing like the Wrangler. If you want the specs go to jeep.com and print out the 100+ differences that are listed on the window stickers.
I already read the specs
Liberty Wrangler Sport
Command Trac Command-Trac
42 RLE 42 RLE
Axel Ratio 3.73 3.73
Wheelbase 106.1 95.4
Ground Clearance 7.7 10.X (with 17")
Frame All-Steel body, Uniframe Same

For me it's look almost the same. ok ground clearance, dep and app angle it s a BIG + for the Wrangler.



M. Sinister gave me good explanation, ex. suspension, Independent vs Solid Axel.

I'm sorry if I offended someone but "Did you know it before you knew it?
and I thought this forum could be the right place to ask because most of you have been on the trail.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:22 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by goldenfalcon

OH I'M sorry! Maybe it's clear for you but it's not for me.

I didn't compare the Wrangler with the Patriot or the Compass.
but for me, the Liberty could be close to the Wrangler Sport and Sahara (Stock). I know the Rubi is superior with his: Locking diff. , sway bar, Dana 44 Rear AND front. But what I don't know is, why the JK Sport and Sahara (STOCK)are better Off road then the Liberty (STOCK). I don't care about the look or the interior I care about the Off Road
Go to a real orv park and see which one makes it further....
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:41 PM   #38
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When I had RAV4.3, I extracted a lot of enjoyment from tweaking jeep snobs by getting somewhere they had trouble getting.

It has to be noted though that there's a real off-roading, that is getting you, your team, your supplies and weapons somewhere you want to get and where there is NO ROAD, and pretend off-roading where pretend jeeps waddle over pretend obstacles. Pretend off-roading requires all the goodies jeep snobs love so much (like SOLID AXLES). Liberty just won't do for pretend off-roading, but it's great for the real one.

You do need the rear locker though, just in case. It helps in a wide variety of traction conditions.

-- Pete
maybe i'm reading this wrong, but are you saying the rav4 and the liberty are more capable in the real world than a wrangler? i'm certainly not a jeep snob, just looking for an explanation.
haven't seen too many ravs or libertys running gear to the military out in the desert, or getting fire fighters up fire trails.
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Old 10-07-2010, 01:56 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by zaitcev View Post
When I had RAV4.3, I extracted a lot of enjoyment from tweaking jeep snobs by getting somewhere they had trouble getting.

It has to be noted though that there's a real off-roading, that is getting you, your team, your supplies and weapons somewhere you want to get and where there is NO ROAD, and pretend off-roading where pretend jeeps waddle over pretend obstacles. Pretend off-roading requires all the goodies jeep snobs love so much (like SOLID AXLES). Liberty just won't do for pretend off-roading, but it's great for the real one.

You do need the rear locker though, just in case. It helps in a wide variety of traction conditions.

-- Pete
bla bla bla bla bla

Tell ya what buddy, you bring your Liberty on out and let's just see if it can follow me up some of those "pretend obstacles"

If it can then I'll be more than happy to shake your hand and tell you "Well done"
if it cant then I'll expect you to STFU.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:06 PM   #40
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I just sold my 2007 Liberty 4X4 to get a 2010 Wrangler Sport. The reason I made the change was because I was pushing the Liberty too hard off-road. In the hands of a capable driver, the Liberty will go many places that (I suspect) most on this board would find surprising. For example, here in SoCal, I had my Liberty on nearly all of the side-trails (the tough ones) on Cleghorn Ridge. I had more than one Jeep/Modified Bronco say how they were surprised where I could go.

HOWEVER, in doing those types of adventures, things started to fail. For example, I knocked the front-end out of alignment and when I got it aligned, I was told that it was at the limit for adjustment so I must have bent something.

I got the Wrangler because: Superior ground clearance, accepts larger tires without lift, ability to lift beyond the recommended 2.5 or 3" max on the Liberty, far better entry and exit angles, AND WAY EASIER TO MOD.
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:44 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by zaitcev View Post
When I had RAV4.3, I extracted a lot of enjoyment from tweaking jeep snobs by getting somewhere they had trouble getting.

It has to be noted though that there's a real off-roading, that is getting you, your team, your supplies and weapons somewhere you want to get and where there is NO ROAD, and pretend off-roading where pretend jeeps waddle over pretend obstacles. Pretend off-roading requires all the goodies jeep snobs love so much (like SOLID AXLES). Liberty just won't do for pretend off-roading, but it's great for the real one.

You do need the rear locker though, just in case. It helps in a wide variety of traction conditions.

-- Pete
That's illegal in most places these days... which is the only reason designated trails and "pretend obstacles" exist...
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:46 PM   #42
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When I had RAV4.3, I extracted a lot of enjoyment from tweaking jeep snobs by getting somewhere they had trouble getting.

It has to be noted though that there's a real off-roading, that is getting you, your team, your supplies and weapons somewhere you want to get and where there is NO ROAD, and pretend off-roading where pretend jeeps waddle over pretend obstacles. Pretend off-roading requires all the goodies jeep snobs love so much (like SOLID AXLES). Liberty just won't do for pretend off-roading, but it's great for the real one.

You do need the rear locker though, just in case. It helps in a wide variety of traction conditions.

-- Pete
Yeah, cuz thats going to win people to your way of thinking

A RAV4 would stand absolutely no chance of making it up some of the trails I saw in Colorado...you know, those pretend ones that were put there for pretend mines that have pretend spectacular views The Liberty was making extensive use of its skid plates going over an easy pass (you know, a pretend point were you reach the pretend top of a pretend mountain trail with all those pretend spectacular views ).
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:51 PM   #43
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I just sold my 2007 Liberty 4X4 to get a 2010 Wrangler Sport. The reason I made the change was because I was pushing the Liberty too hard off-road. In the hands of a capable driver, the Liberty will go many places that (I suspect) most on this board would find surprising. For example, here in SoCal, I had my Liberty on nearly all of the side-trails (the tough ones) on Cleghorn Ridge. I had more than one Jeep/Modified Bronco say how they were surprised where I could go.

HOWEVER, in doing those types of adventures, things started to fail. For example, I knocked the front-end out of alignment and when I got it aligned, I was told that it was at the limit for adjustment so I must have bent something.

I got the Wrangler because: Superior ground clearance, accepts larger tires without lift, ability to lift beyond the recommended 2.5 or 3" max on the Liberty, far better entry and exit angles, AND WAY EASIER TO MOD.

So, One of the problems is Lack of clearance, departure et approach angle, right? Can you tell me if the suspension makes a big difference?
How about the frame, do you think they are the same (do you fell the frame is more strong in your Wrangler then the Liberty)?
Traction, I know the sizes of the tires are not the same but do you think we can compare the traction between Liberty and JK Sport (no Rubicon)?

Aie! Thank you
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Old 10-07-2010, 02:58 PM   #44
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A RAV4 would stand absolutely no chance of making it up some of the trails I saw in Colorado...you know, those pretend ones that were put there for pretend mines that have pretend spectacular views The Liberty was making extensive use of its skid plates going over an easy pass (you know, a pretend point were you reach the pretend top of a pretend mountain trail with all those pretend spectacular views ).
Bubba... can I pretend to be your friend?
You just cracked me up!
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:06 PM   #45
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When I had RAV4.3, I extracted a lot of enjoyment from tweaking jeep snobs by getting somewhere they had trouble getting.


-- Pete
Hum!!! Two years ago, during the winter time, I was with my friend which he had Rav4 and I had my Jeep Patriot "Trail Rated", with the same winter tires on both vehicles(Michelin X-ice) He couldn't make the trail, he stopped at the first hill and I had no problems at all. But I will never compared my Wrangler with my Patriot.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:11 PM   #46
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I think my wife pretends alot...but that is way off topic.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:12 PM   #47
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So, One of the problems is Lack of clearance, departure et approach angle, right? Can you tell me if the suspension makes a big difference?
How about the frame, do you think they are the same (do you fell the frame is more strong in your Wrangler then the Liberty)?
The approach/departure angle can make the difference between getting there and not. Last weekend I went across a rut that I would not have made in the Liberty. Also, the Liberty is a unibody type construction that has an integral frame. I had it on three wheels quite a few times and felt like the body/frame were solid. Not as solid as the Wrangler feels but still ok. The Wrangler suspension overall seems much more solid. The Liberty is sprung for a more comfortable ride on the road and so doesn't handle the rough stuff as well. I would often run out of suspension travel on the Liberty. Not so much in the Wrangler.

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Traction, I know the sizes of the tires are not the same but do you think we can compare the traction between Liberty and JK Sport (no Rubicon)?
As you say, a lot of traction is the tires. My only comment is that I was climbing a hill in the Liberty and ran out of power before I ran out of traction. I think with identical tires and inflation, the Liberty may have slightly better traction because of the IFS. Not sure though.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:20 PM   #48
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I also have both. A 2008 Liberty KK (KJ's are '02-'07) and a 2009 JK. All the JK's have D44 rear axles. Ground clearance is a huge factor off road. The Liberty is very capable, but clearance is a HUGE limiting factor. Last winter we had a blizzard that dumped 30" on us. I tried to back the Liberty out of the parking lot and it immediately got high centered. After I dug it out, I got in my JK and simply drove out with no issue. Both had identical Goodyear SRA tires, just different sizes.

The Liberty KK is a solid on and off road vehicle. It's severly limited by ground clearance compared to the JK. If you take him wheeling with you, make sure he installs tow hooks so that you can pull him out.
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Old 10-07-2010, 03:20 PM   #49
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I think with identical tires and inflation, the Liberty may have slightly better traction because of the IFS. Not sure though.
You get wheel hop with IFS/IRS in iffy traction conditions. That's an easy way to snap a half shaft, not to mention lose even more traction when the tire is losing contact.
IFS can be good in the sand where travel is not as much an issue, most serious desert racers use IFS, but we're talking dedicated, high dollar rigs with high dollar IFS setups and loads of suspension travel.
If you (not you in particular, just in general) think you can storm the dunes in your stock Liberty, you'll be in for a big surprise.
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Old 10-07-2010, 05:22 PM   #50
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Very entertaining thread.........lol
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:00 PM   #51
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This thread is absolutely retarded....you are comparing apples and oranges...and although your patriot says trail rated, dont mistake it for a trail vehicle, same as the liberty. Trail rated is jeeps way of saying "4x4".....i wouldnt call an s-10 trail rated but they do have 4x4 models
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:18 PM   #52
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This thread is absolutely retarded....you are comparing apples and oranges...and although your patriot says trail rated, dont mistake it for a trail vehicle, same as the liberty. Trail rated is jeeps way of saying "4x4".....i wouldnt call an s-10 trail rated but they do have 4x4 models
i wouldn't go that far, he learned some stuff he didn't know. that makes it worth it.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:43 PM   #53
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i wouldn't go that far, he learned some stuff he didn't know. that makes it worth it.
How can you honestly not know that a wrangler is more capable than a liberty, does he have downs??
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:50 PM   #54
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How can you honestly not know that a wrangler is more capable than a liberty, does he have downs??
i got the impression that HE knows, but he was looking for ammo from more knowledgeable people to tell his "imaginative" friend that his liberty is not going to do everything a wrangler can.
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Old 10-07-2010, 06:53 PM   #55
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i got the impression that HE knows, but he was looking for ammo from more knowledgeable people to tell his "imaginative" friend that his liberty is not going to do everything a wrangler can.
Exactly.

Don't knock the Liberty. It's very capable. I would put it in the same category as an Xterra.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:02 PM   #56
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I dont like to bash thing but a couple of years ago I drove a liberty for a week and What a piss of crap!!!!!!! It was a rental I didnt take it off road, but HORRIBLE ( in my opinion ). Slow, really stiff and unconfortable, and not fun at all. I cant comment how capable is off road but in the street Suckss!!!! Also im not sure how the newer model compares to the older, when I got my JKU 4months ago I saw it in the dealer and it change alot
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:05 PM   #57
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I dont like to bash thing but a couple of years ago I drove a liberty for a week and What a piss of crap!!!!!!! It was a rental I didnt take it off road, but HORRIBLE ( in my opinion ). Slow, really stiff and unconfortable, and not fun at all. I cant comment how capable is off road but in the street Suckss!!!! Also im not sure how the newer model compares to the older, when I got my JKU 4months ago I saw it in the dealer and it change alot
I've driven both and the KK is night and day different from the KJ.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:13 PM   #58
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If I get too involved in this thread I'll most likely be banned....so I'll keep it short and to the point.

There is a reason that 90% of the vehicles at off road parks and off road designated areas are Wranglers...whether a CJ, YJ, TJ, JK, JKU.
There is also a reason that the huge majority of hardcore rigs and crawlers are Wranglers too. The wrangler is the ultimate off road platform.

I am by no means a "Jeep Snob"...like some others, I dont think my Jeep was hand crafted by Jesus himself. Those kind of people actually do piss me off. There are lots of other vehicles out there that are extremely trail worthy.



Did someone seriously bring up a RAV4??
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:26 PM   #59
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i got the impression that HE knows, but he was looking for ammo from more knowledgeable people to tell his "imaginative" friend that his liberty is not going to do everything a wrangler can.

Exactly, but I would have never expected such reactions. I was under the impression that people would have been proud to share their knowledge.
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Old 10-07-2010, 07:53 PM   #60
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How is someone even comparing a Wrangler to a RAV-4?! I've had my (mostly) stock TJ for less than a month and am not that retarded. I think that people use the term "SUV" flippantly. Our Suburban is an SUV but I can guarantee you that is can not do crap off roading wise. Seriously you best be trollin.

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