Found out yesterday that it is illegal to drive doorless in the Commonwealth of PA. :banned:
Besides moving and just ending it all (both are getting significant consideration) - I'm wondering what to do, now that one of my key jeep features has been eliminated (does the Prius come in Hydro Blue).
Anyone know if tube or soft doors are legal in PA and other states?
Anyone know what eastern states allow doorless?
Are there any states that have medical exemptions for doorless - I feel claustrophobic with my doors back on and am just wondering how I'm gonna make it thru the rest of the summer. I guess I'll have to figure out something the old fashioned way and find the right person to bribe - end of psychobabble rant. ullinghair:
Phew - needed to get that out, now to come up with a new plan...
There is a "friend" of mine that got the Hydro last year lives in PA and got burned the same way. I hear a lot of people there have "no problems", and others (like yourself) get busted. FWIW my friend went to Bestop soft frame doors...kinda like a tube door. Only have seen Pics haven't made it that far East again.
She and her husband did some checking as they were in a "cruise" with many other JEEPs and only JKs were being stopped. SUPPOSEDLY because the JK does not have as high of a door threshold, as the TJ YJ etc. less than 6"s, they can not run "doorless" in PA.
(f) Doors. A vehicle specified under this subchapter shall be equipped with doors of a type used as original equipment. The doors shall open and close securely unless the vehicle has been manufactured or modified to the extent that there is no roof or side. Tailgates, except on vehicles where the tailgate gives access to the passenger compartment, may be replaced with wood planking, nets or other material that will prevent loss of load. Tailgates may be removed when optional equipment, for example a truck camper, is added
I'm not a lawyer or a police officer but this is how I see it-
Jeep Wranglers don't have roofs. Never have. They have a top. With the soft top, the door frame is an extra part. Remove that with the top and doors and if stopped, respectfully make that argument for the officer and hope for the best. Or just pay the fine and learn your lesson.
As for soft/trail doors, I seriously doubt you'll get hassled about that.
I don't think that was the intent of how it is written. If you read it atomically:
"The doors shall open and close securely unless the vehicle has been manufactured or modified to the extent that there is no roof or side"
It says the doors must "open and close securely" unless the vehicle has no roof (or side, whatever that means). If the vehicle has no roof, it negates the previous stipulation in the sentence, which would mean the doors do not have to "open and close securely". That doesn't change the meaning to imply that you no longer have to have doors altogether.
FWIW I've rolled doorless in south central PA several times, no issue. Silver JKU with only the front doors off.
When it was brand new, I had just gotten my plates but didn't have it inspected, got pulled over by a state trooper on a mcycle while I was coming back from the gun range. Never even mentioned the doors not being there. No violation since I had an appointment for inspection that next week.
Have a friend living west of me was getting hassled all the time (in a YJ, I think). Put tube doors on, no more hassle.
I'll keep on rolling that way until I get fined. Then I will get some tube doors.
I don't understand laws like this. Who will you hurt or endanger without doors on your jeep...? I also have a strong opinion that seatbelt use shouldn't be required by law. Just seems like a silly way to generate revenue and or an excuse to pull someone over and then look for something additional to get them for. Bummer dude
Welcome to the nanny state we now live in where government has to waste its time protecting people from non existent dangers, all the while ignoring real threats.
I don't know what to tell you, I've been rolling Pa "Naked" for decades.
I've had Cops compliment the Jeep, say "Why the Hell wouldn't you remove the top AND Doors" and wave.
Never had one say Boo to me.
That said, AND I'M NOT saying you did or do - I don't draw any attention to myself. No Big Tires sticking out or illegal lights etc.
Most Cops I know would see the doors as a "secondary offense" to something else.
Again I did not insinuate that you did. You may have also just gotten a dick Cop.
I'd certainly fight it if a ticket was issued.
Nothing to lose but the filing fee.
Good luck.
Fact remains, two fold: Laws are subject to interpretation (by the governing authority NOT the public) AND they are subject to enforcement at the discretion of the same authority.
Cops can choose what they are going to make an issue out of and what they are not going to make an issue of.
I've only ever heard of One person in one small town in Pa that was "Warned" about his doors but you should see this guy and his Jeep - the cop picked one thing of a dozen things he could have cited.
In 30 years of riding and owning a business I get to see and hear what people get cited for, I've never seen it - in Pa.
Doing my best to keep from going off on a cop thug rant, because in reality he wasn't over dickish for a cop and I'm sure his apprenticeship as a hall monitor is paying off...
I've been driving around doorless for the last couple of months (since my 1st jeep day) and was all excited since I feel like I've got my doorless process down pretty well.
I just took a joy ride at lunch, cause jeepy was already naked, the sun was shining and I can...
I did have my foot out on my rock slider when I pulled up to the light behind the unmarked car. Then he turns off on a side street and turns around and is now behind me
and my spider senses are tingling - even being brand new and completely legal (registration, inspection and insurance).
He did say "you have your mirrors so you're good to go" - not sure if that is all he wanted to verify and he didn't ticket me or give me a warning.
I did ask for the number of the regulation (175.77 (F)) that is in one of the above posts.
So, I guess, I will just plan to go for it, until I actually get ticketed. I've also passed other cops and parked by one the other night at Lowes, and none seemed to care.
Oh Well, I used to be a law abiding, tax paying citizen - welcome to the underworld.
So ridiculous - you can ride a motorcycle with no helmet, get your LTCF (ccp) in less than 24 hours, but a doorless jeep is trouble with a capital T.
No prob, I can pull off an orange jumpsuit with hydro blue
I'm wondering if this is more about the mirrors than the doors...I see tons of Jeeps around the Pittsburgh area driving around "naked" - even a guy with 0 doors and his soft top on - idk why? I just figured if it was a big deal nobody would do it, but its so common.
Not to derail the real intent of this thread, but I run this way all summer. You get baked around here if the sun is out ( and it always is) and you have no top. My Jeep was registering 105 yesterday at 3pm, 101 at 7pm. (air right above the streets, of course, is hotter than the official air temp.)
So when it's fairly hot, I run no doors, bikini top. When it's hot as a sumbuck, I throw the Elements tubies on, with skins and uppers, so they hold the AC in just a little better.
That is the ONE answer I have gotten from multiple Cops in answer to the Door question - " If I see a mirror, I don't care".
I even called the Chief of Police of the town I own a business in and he answered in the form of a question, "As long as you have a sideview mirror I think you're fine?"
The vehicle has indeed been modified so that there is no roof or side when you take the doors off. I would think you can find a lawyer to beat this rap.
Agree gavman00 - glad I posted and thought a little more about it, and really glad it's just me overreacting.
NoGaBiker - please derail at will, I've seen your posts and will probably be copying much from you (2 door Willys after all). Currently I'm investigating which bikini top to run with the backbone and backbone windshield (and element doors now). Also, the front and rear winch setup is some great execution keeping stock wheels and bumper.
interesting thread, I lived in PA for 6 years just outside Philly. I am a born and raised Southern California Boy...
I actually bought my 2013 JK Sport while I was living in PA. I have since returned to So Cal..
I have to admit, I always thought California probably had some of the toughest vehicle laws around. I found out after living in PA for 6 years, I was WAY off the mark. PA had some totally bizarre vehicle laws that made no sense, and guess what, when I first bought my Jeep, a co-worker told me, Hey, do not take the doors off your Jeep, I said what ? they replied, it's illegal in this state. I though they were kidding. I found out they were not..
I have also since discovered that just about everything I have now done to my Jeep would surely get me pulled over and probably cited in the Keystone State.
I could go into the list, but wont at the moment. Not to say that some of the things I have done to my Jeep are not illegal in CA, but unless you are a complete "Knot-Head", the chances of me getting a ticket in CA for the things I have done to my Jeep are slim to none..
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