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Old 10-07-2012, 03:57 PM   #1
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Limited Slip Retrofit

What would be a smart route for me to take if I wanted to have better off-road capabilities from my JKU. I currently don't even have the limited slip differential. I understand that I can do as much as my pockets are willing to handle, so I'm looking for something modest. What would be the best option for installing a limited slip or lockers, and which parts are involved in this. This would be for an all around Jeep. Trails, Mud, Rocks (if I ever find some), Highway use since its a DD, and Mall Crawling when my wife has it.

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Old 10-07-2012, 04:05 PM   #2
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For all around use it's hard to beat a Truetrac. The BLD compliments it well, it doesn't require extra wiring or air to work and it's there all the time. You can do lockers, but for an all around daily driver they aren't as good for the money.

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Old 10-07-2012, 04:12 PM   #3
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So I take it that the TrueTrac is a Limited Slip. Also, what is BLD?
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:17 PM   #4
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Yes, it's a gear type LSD so it won't wear out over time, doesn't chatter and doesn't require special diff lube. BLD is the brake lock diff the jk has. It applies the brake on a spinning wheel to transfer torque to the wheel with traction.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bhawkdrvr
So I take it that the TrueTrac is a Limited Slip. Also, what is BLD?
BLD is the jeep's electronic "brake locking differential." It uses the brakes to simulate the effects of an LSD. Does a pretty good job.

The "cool" part of me wants one or two lockers, the practical side of me knows that front and rear truetracs would almost surely be a better choice.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:20 PM   #6
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The "cool" part of me wants one or two lockers, the practical side of me knows that front and rear truetracs would almost surely be a better choice.
As soon as he said daily driver and wife's mall crawler, lockers became impractical.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:34 PM   #7
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As soon as he said daily driver and wife's mall crawler, lockers became impractical.
You're absolutely right. Thanks for the advice guys! Also, how difficult would it be to retrofit the Rubicon's e-lockers?
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:36 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by oilwell1415

As soon as he said daily driver and wife's mall crawler, lockers became impractical.
Yep. I put down 70 highway miles a day commuting. Unless I was a regular rock crawler on top of that, lockers really make very little sense.

I expect the OP is similarly situated. One or two TrueTracs would be great--helps on slick roads, on the occasional trail, and requires no extra effort once installed other than use of the proper diff fluid.
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:42 PM   #9
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MTH thanks for all the input. I drive 60 miles a day to work and back, and just take the jeep off-road occasionally. I've been stuck in the mud, so I wanted something to make it a more robust machine, but without damaging our bank accounts. Thanks fellas!
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Old 10-07-2012, 04:46 PM   #10
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You're absolutely right. Thanks for the advice guys! Also, how difficult would it be to retrofit the Rubicon's e-lockers?
Not worth it. You can do better for less in the aftermarket and not have to do a front axle swap. You'd also need to wire them up and if set them up to work with the factory controls they will only work in 4L at slow speeds. In other words, lots of money to be useless 99% of the time.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:02 PM   #11
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You got some bad advice here, I have been down this road with my 2012 sport. The Eaton trutrac is better than any standard limited slip. Go to Eaton web site and take a look for yourself. I have a trutrac in the rear and a Eaton e locker in the front. These have turned my sport into a rubicon capable jeep. I do have a manual disco.
Trutrac works differently than LSD and the BLD is useless for any type of rutted climbing. The Eaton trutrac needs to be drill to 1/2 inch to fit your pinion in the 2012 or 2013 do not let someone tell you otherwise because they don't want to do it or they want to slop fit the two with 7/16 bolts. And forget about any retrofit with mopar parts cost way to much not near as strong as Eatons parts. DO your own research first.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:38 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by mcgee10
You got some bad advice here, I have been down this road with my 2012 sport. The Eaton trutrac is better than any standard limited slip. Go to Eaton web site and take a look for yourself. I have a trutrac in the rear and a Eaton e locker in the front. These have turned my sport into a rubicon capable jeep. I do have a manual disco.
Trutrac works differently than LSD and the BLD is useless for any type of rutted climbing. The Eaton trutrac needs to be drill to 1/2 inch to fit your pinion in the 2012 or 2013 do not let someone tell you otherwise because they don't want to do it or they want to slop fit the two with 7/16 bolts. And forget about any retrofit with mopar parts cost way to much not near as strong as Eatons parts. DO your own research first.
He got no bad advice. Quote for me the items in the thread that you think are inconsistent with what you've said.
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Old 10-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #13
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You got some bad advice here, I have been down this road with my 2012 sport. The Eaton trutrac is better than any standard limited slip. Go to Eaton web site and take a look for yourself. I have a trutrac in the rear and a Eaton e locker in the front. These have turned my sport into a rubicon capable jeep. I do have a manual disco.
I question everything in the above paragraph other than that the Trutrac is better than a standard limited slip. Nothing else makes sense.

Quote:
Trutrac works differently than LSD and the BLD is useless for any type of rutted climbing.
The Trutrac does the exact same thing as any other LSD, it just does it better and gets to the goal in a different way. It still uses friction and gear geometry to transfer torque from one wheel to the other. The BLD, while not perfect, does work well for the mild wheeling that most people do. It isn't for rock crawling, but complements a Trutrac very well.

Quote:
The Eaton trutrac needs to be drill to 1/2 inch to fit your pinion in the 2012 or 2013 do not let someone tell you otherwise because they don't want to do it or they want to slop fit the two with 7/16 bolts.
How does the Trutrac interact with the pinion? Mopar lists the same 1/2" bolts for all of the JK rear axles. What exactly do you mean by slop fit? If you tried to screw a 7/16 bolt into a 1/2 hole I don't think the threads would even touch and if they did they certainly would not take the torque needed for assembly.

Quote:
And forget about any retrofit with mopar parts cost way to much not near as strong as Eatons parts. DO your own research first.
This is the only thing you have said that makes any sense at all.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:03 PM   #14
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He got no bad advice. Quote for me the items in the thread that you think are inconsistent with what you've said.
I think his big problem is the ring gear bolts not fitting in the Trutrac, but the bolt sizes are the same for all but the 07s and there are too many people out there running these with no issues for it to be a huge problem. I think what is happening is people are buying the wrong carrier for their application since there are probably half a dozen different variants for the D44.
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415

I think his big problem is the ring gear bolts not fitting in the Trutrac, but the bolt sizes are the same for all but the 07s and there are too many people out there running these with no issues for it to be a huge problem. I think what is happening is people are buying the wrong carrier for their application since there are probably half a dozen different variants for the D44.
But . . . who said anything else about ring gear bolts such that their advice was "bad"?
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Old 10-07-2012, 08:43 PM   #16
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But . . . who said anything else about ring gear bolts such that their advice was "bad"?
Nobody. I'm supposed to be nice, remember? I think the point was that the ring gear bolts allegedly don't fit, so advising someone to use a Trutrac is bad advice.
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Old 10-07-2012, 09:01 PM   #17
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Again, thanks for the help guys. It seems like I ave some studying ahead of me while I finish saving for this project.
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Old 10-08-2012, 05:24 AM   #18
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You got some bad advice here, I have been down this road with my 2012 sport. The Eaton trutrac is better than any standard limited slip. Go to Eaton web site and take a look for yourself. I have a trutrac in the rear and a Eaton e locker in the front. These have turned my sport into a rubicon capable jeep. I do have a manual disco.
Trutrac works differently than LSD and the BLD is useless for any type of rutted climbing. The Eaton trutrac needs to be drill to 1/2 inch to fit your pinion in the 2012 or 2013 do not let someone tell you otherwise because they don't want to do it or they want to slop fit the two with 7/16 bolts. And forget about any retrofit with mopar parts cost way to much not near as strong as Eatons parts. DO your own research first.
Sorry guys I copied and pasted this I was posting the almost same topic from another jeep forum. The bad advice part should not have been placed here. Maybe just some venting after my trutrac install which didn't go very good. Now I see I used some wrong terms when describing the 7/16 holes in the Eaton E locker to match the 1/2 holes in the ring gear.
Better get on my game to
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Old 10-08-2012, 07:52 AM   #19
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Sorry guys I copied and pasted this I was posting the almost same topic from another jeep forum. The bad advice part should not have been placed here. Maybe just some venting after my trutrac install which didn't go very good. Now I see I used some wrong terms when describing the 7/16 holes in the Eaton E locker to match the 1/2 holes in the ring gear.
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:01 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by oilwell1415

Nobody. I'm supposed to be nice, remember? I think the point was that the ring gear bolts allegedly don't fit, so advising someone to use a Trutrac is bad advice.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:06 PM   #21
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I'm running the Detroit Eaton TrueTrac LSD in the front axle of my 2DR X. Traction is awsome and turning radius is not affected at all.

The factory D44 rear TracLoc LSD has 45K miles on it and the clutches inside it are still good.
The TracLoc does act different, more of a posi traction type action than the locker action of the TrueTrac. It's obvious in snow. I'd reccomend the TrueTrac to anyone.

I've owned Jeeps with full time full case lockers front and rear and it's not for everyone. It takes practice and patience to drive on gravel, ice, snow or even just wet roads.

LSD's are automatic which I like. The rear works all the time when your in 2wd. Helps climbing gravel roads and driving in snow and doesn't jerk or pull when your turning sharp corners.

I've been running 35" tires for quite some time and never had any issues with the stock 4.10 gears or D30 axle with the TracLoc installed.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:28 PM   #22
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I'm running the Detroit Eaton TrueTrac LSD in the front axle of my 2DR X. Traction is awsome and turning radius is not affected at all.

The factory D44 rear TracLoc LSD has 45K miles on it and the clutches inside it are still good.
The TracLoc does act different, more of a posi traction type action than the locker action of the TrueTrac. It's obvious in snow. I'd reccomend the TrueTrac to anyone.

I've owned Jeeps with full time full case lockers front and rear and it's not for everyone. It takes practice and patience to drive on gravel, ice, snow or even just wet roads.

LSD's are automatic which I like. The rear works all the time when your in 2wd. Helps climbing gravel roads and driving in snow and doesn't jerk or pull when your turning sharp corners.

I've been running 35" tires for quite some time and never had any issues with the stock 4.10 gears or D30 axle with the TracLoc installed.

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Old 10-08-2012, 11:17 PM   #23
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I'm running the Detroit Eaton TrueTrac LSD in the front axle of my 2DR X. Traction is awsome and turning radius is not affected at all.

The factory D44 rear TracLoc LSD has 45K miles on it and the clutches inside it are still good.
The TracLoc does act different, more of a posi traction type action than the locker action of the TrueTrac. It's obvious in snow. I'd reccomend the TrueTrac to anyone.

I've owned Jeeps with full time full case lockers front and rear and it's not for everyone. It takes practice and patience to drive on gravel, ice, snow or even just wet roads.

LSD's are automatic which I like. The rear works all the time when your in 2wd. Helps climbing gravel roads and driving in snow and doesn't jerk or pull when your turning sharp corners.

I've been running 35" tires for quite some time and never had any issues with the stock 4.10 gears or D30 axle with the TracLoc installed.
I have a 2012 Sport JK auto with 3.73's, factory limited slip, 2.5 inch lift and 35's. I'm thinking about going to your set up with TrueTrac in front because it seems to add a lot for the money (about $500) and if it is not enough I can add a true locker in the rear later. I am a little confused about the factory BLD and aftermarket LSD compatibility. I assume the BSD and LSD will work together just fine and help each other. Any comments on this?
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:49 AM   #24
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I am a little confused about the factory BLD and aftermarket LSD compatibility. I assume the BSD and LSD will work together just fine and help each other. Any comments on this?
After a long time looking at this question, here's what I think I learned:

(1) BLD requires some wheel spin to activate, so you'll slip for a bit before it kicks on.

(2) When BLD does kick on, it works very much like a limited slip except it actually reduces some of the power going to the ground. This is a consequence of using the brake to make the system work--it's a brake.

(3) A truetrac does not require any wheel spin to activate--it's always activated to assist in avoiding wheel spin.

(4) A truetrac doesn't apply the brake to the slipping wheel or anything similar, so there's no power loss at the wheels.

(5) After one wheel gives a few extra rotations versus the opposite wheel, BLD works every time and brakes the spinning wheel. This is true even when one wheel is completely in the air--zero traction--to send some power the other way.

(6) A truetrac uses gears with a bias ratio to send a certain multiple of the power on the slipping wheel to the other side. So the slipping wheel needs SOME traction for a truetrac to operate. A truetrac is therefore very ineffective when you have one wheel in the air.

Taken together, this all basically means that a truetrac will render your BLD inoperable UNLESS you are in a zero traction situation in which case the truetrac is nearly inoperable, but the BLD then kicks on and gives the truetrac something to work with.

They almost couldn't be more keyed to fit together to come as close as possible to being a locker while still providing good daily driver characteristics. A locker would of course moot all of that by simply guaranteeing both wheels spin at the same speed regardless of which has more traction--but it wouldn't improve the DD experience in any way.

That is, I believe, how it was explained to me. Hopefully someone who understands the actual mechanics will correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 10-09-2012, 03:08 AM   #25
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(6) A truetrac uses gears with a bias ratio to send a certain multiple of the power on the slipping wheel to the other side. So the slipping wheel needs SOME traction for a truetrac to operate. A truetrac is therefore very ineffective when you have one wheel in the air.

And you went after me then you post this. Your a bit confused on how a trutrac really works. Take a look even with 1 wheel in the air you still have some power to the other wheel. Here is a video that easy to see how it works---
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:59 AM   #26
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After a long time looking at this question, here's what I think I learned:

(1) BLD requires some wheel spin to activate, so you'll slip for a bit before it kicks on.

(2) When BLD does kick on, it works very much like a limited slip except it actually reduces some of the power going to the ground. This is a consequence of using the brake to make the system work--it's a brake.

(3) A truetrac does not require any wheel spin to activate--it's always activated to assist in avoiding wheel spin.

(4) A truetrac doesn't apply the brake to the slipping wheel or anything similar, so there's no power loss at the wheels.

(5) After one wheel gives a few extra rotations versus the opposite wheel, BLD works every time and brakes the spinning wheel. This is true even when one wheel is completely in the air--zero traction--to send some power the other way.

(6) A truetrac uses gears with a bias ratio to send a certain multiple of the power on the slipping wheel to the other side. So the slipping wheel needs SOME traction for a truetrac to operate. A truetrac is therefore very ineffective when you have one wheel in the air.

Taken together, this all basically means that a truetrac will render your BLD inoperable UNLESS you are in a zero traction situation in which case the truetrac is nearly inoperable, but the BLD then kicks on and gives the truetrac something to work with.

They almost couldn't be more keyed to fit together to come as close as possible to being a locker while still providing good daily driver characteristics. A locker would of course moot all of that by simply guaranteeing both wheels spin at the same speed regardless of which has more traction--but it wouldn't improve the DD experience in any way.

That is, I believe, how it was explained to me. Hopefully someone who understands the actual mechanics will correct me if I'm wrong.
Perfect. Saved me lots of typing.

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(6) A truetrac uses gears with a bias ratio to send a certain multiple of the power on the slipping wheel to the other side. So the slipping wheel needs SOME traction for a truetrac to operate. A truetrac is therefore very ineffective when you have one wheel in the air.

And you went after me then you post this. Your a bit confused on how a trutrac really works. Take a look even with 1 wheel in the air you still have some power to the other wheel. Here is a video that easy to see how it works
No, he is correct. Without any traction on one wheel the Truetrac doesn't do anything. They have a bias ratio of about 3. That means the send three times the torque on the tire with less traction to the other side. If one wheel is in the air it has zero traction. Zero times 3 is zero. It even tells you this in the Trutrac owner's manual:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eaton Trutrac manual

Note: TrueTrac differentials require a certain amount of resistance at the ground in order to start the power transfer. A TrueTrac differential may not transfer power if the spinning wheel is off the ground. If spinning occurs, often a light application of the brakes, while carefully applying power, will slow the spinning wheel enough to allow the TrueTrac differential to transfer torque to the other wheel.

This even alludes to the BLD working well with the Trutrac.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:02 AM   #27
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What about the Auburn Gear ECTED? Seems like the best all around, limited slip and locker with a push of a button.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:45 AM   #28
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Still requires adding wiring and I would be very hesitant to include a selectable locker on any vehicle that will serve as the wife's mall crawler. Wives in general tend to push buttons and flip switches just because they're there. I can't tell you how many times I had a lady bring her husband's 4x4 into the shop complaining that it was steering funny and making horrible noises only to find that she had been driving it around in 4wd on the city streets all week while he was out of town. I think a selectable locker would do the same thing unless you put Rubi like safeties on it.
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Old 10-09-2012, 11:40 AM   #29
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Perfect. Saved me lots of typing.
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2010 JKU "Mountain" Edition
TeraFlex 2.5" Coil Lift : Old Man Emu Nitrocharger Shocks : 33x12.5R15 Goodyear DuraTracs : 15x8 Black Rock 909s : Other Stuff . . .
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Old 10-09-2012, 02:53 PM   #30
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MTH, thanks for all the time, typing and insight. What a first answer right out of the box! Many thanks to you all.

I've got a lot to chew on and digest, especially cost vs. benefit. Now I am thinking at least one locker is the way to go, and if this is the path, maybe leave out the LSD and go straight to it. With factory LSD already in back, probably a locker in front. Lots of options, and oilwell, it is my wife's daily drive. I'll stay tuned.

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