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Old 09-10-2012, 12:32 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997 View Post
I have a EATON E-Locker in front and a rear LSD in mine and has worked great for me, I find it helps to have the LSD in rear for winter driving and the Locker up front for off roading has worked great. It is a great debate on this topic on which system works the best depending on who you ask. I just know that I haven't had any issues with this set up and have kept up with those with front and rear lockers with no problems.

I think it ends up coming down to how much snow you drive in. I still like the LSD in rear for snow myself

PS. If your going with EATON E-Lockers, they are 4 pin system in D30's which are great but only have 2 pins for the D44's. Not sure why they do that. Seems silly to me. Don't get them for the D44 but they are great in the front D30
Yea, I'm beginning to notice that. A lot of the stuff is based on opinion, while some is based on technical. I think this will be the route I take (yours). LSD rear and locker in the front.

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Old 09-10-2012, 02:53 PM   #122
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Just how bad is a Rubicon in the snow with BLD, a good driver and good tires? I get around with my Liberty with an open differential and BLD just fine. I've never gotten stuck with my E-150 with LSD and a 5 speed stick. Reading this thread has me thinking a stock Rubicon is not good in snow.
This is my first Jeep, and a Rubicon at that. I haven't been through a winter with it yet, but I have been through some mud and other garbage. All I know is it's damned good in the mud and garbage, so I can't imagine it would be any different in snow.

Can anyone comment on how a Rubicon is in the snow?

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Old 09-10-2012, 03:36 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Con Artist

This is my first Jeep, and a Rubicon at that. I haven't been through a winter with it yet, but I have been through some mud and other garbage. All I know is it's damned good in the mud and garbage, so I can't imagine it would be any different in snow.

Can anyone comment on how a Rubicon is in the snow?
I have zero doubt that the rubicon is amazing in the "snow." When I say snow, I mean a nice 2 foot dump. Now is the rubicon great in "snow" when you have a 1" coating on the highway? It's the same as any other Wrangler. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the rubicon tech is meaningless on the road.
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:11 PM   #124
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We have come full circle....................again.
Yes, and it ranks right up there with discussing religion and politics.
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Old 09-10-2012, 04:57 PM   #125
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:33 PM   #126
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Best Locker/LSD/BLD thread

UpHillBill has helped me much in understanding these drive systems, which are misunderstood and subject to their own lore, spread by rookies like me as we attempt to "clarify" our understanding.

The best thread and what I believe to be conclusive explanations can be found at the link below. I give it because it is a great summary in ONE place.

MyJEEPforum.net

At the Home Page scroll down to

JEEP TECH, then click link at
Write-up's & How-to's, then click link to
BLD's FTW

If you are studying like me this will help, maybe clear things up. MUST READ ENTIRE THREAD (2 pages)
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:41 PM   #127
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I have zero doubt that the rubicon is amazing in the "snow." When I say snow, I mean a nice 2 foot dump. Now is the rubicon great in "snow" when you have a 1" coating on the highway? It's the same as any other Wrangler. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the rubicon tech is meaningless on the road.
I think that's a pretty fair assessment, unless you skid off the road ... lockers might just help you get out of the ditch. But other than that, yeah.

Personally I think open diffs are safer on ice also. More lateral stability.
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Old 09-10-2012, 05:49 PM   #128
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I had LSD in RWD, and found it way better than open differential in snow. I had 4x4's with open differentials and find it much better than RWD with LSD in snow. A no brainer, I'm just trying to make a point. I never had an LSD 4x4 so I really have nothing to compare it to. I'm thinking you'd really have to work at getting a Rubicon stuck in snow. JMO
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Old 09-10-2012, 06:26 PM   #129
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I had LSD in RWD, and found it way better than open differential in snow. I had 4x4's with open differentials and find it much better than RWD with LSD in snow. A no brainer, I'm just trying to make a point. I never had an LSD 4x4 so I really have nothing to compare it to. I'm thinking you'd really have to work at getting a Rubicon stuck in snow. JMO
Anything high centered is stuck. I've done it with 4x4 trucks, a Rubi, and several Army humvees.

I definitely think an LSD helps you move forward on a slick surface, but the problem is it also helps you move sideways. Two open diffs front and rear gives you a lot more stability left to right.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:13 PM   #130
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LSD works WITH the BLD. Lockers are standalone. Oilwell is saying that unless one wheel is COMPLETELY off the ground, LSD+BLD will have an advantage.
I hear what you're saying. I've never gotten a concise answer as to how well an LS works in conjunction with BL.
If snow ice and trail riding are going to be your conditions The LSD sounds like a great choice. But for down and dirty offroading a full locker is superior. I do like rics1997 set up. It's the best of both worlds with the one full locker as your get out of jail free card if needed. Personally I've decided that if I'm going to spend that kind of money, and my research indicates that LSDs are of some limited value offroading, I chose full lockers. Good luck 2000NYC with your choice.
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Old 09-10-2012, 08:25 PM   #131
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I hear what you're saying. I've never gotten a concise answer as to how well an LS works in conjunction with BL.
If snow ice and trail riding are going to be your conditions The LSD sounds like a great choice. But for down and dirty offroading a full locker is superior. I do like rics1997 set up. It's the best of both worlds with the one full locker as your get out of jail free card if needed. Personally I've decided that if I'm going to spend that kind of money, and my research indicates that LSDs are of some limited value offroading, I chose full lockers. Good luck 2000NYC with your choice.
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Old 09-11-2012, 08:18 AM   #132
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I have zero doubt that the rubicon is amazing in the "snow." When I say snow, I mean a nice 2 foot dump. Now is the rubicon great in "snow" when you have a 1" coating on the highway? It's the same as any other Wrangler. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but the rubicon tech is meaningless on the road.
My assumption (and hopes...) is the same. I'd expect it to be excellent in snow.

As you said, in an inch of snow there probably wouldn't be any advantage to a Rubicon over a Sport or Sahara.
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Old 09-26-2012, 03:07 PM   #133
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Old 09-26-2012, 05:11 PM   #134
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:34 AM   #135
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Just wanted to bump a great thread. I've read every post. Lots of good perspectives here. I'm in the same boat so to speak.

2013 JKUS with factory LSD. I will do mild off road at best. Some snow and adverse conditions. I was ready to buy Truetracs f/r but now I'm going to wait. I like the idea of LSD (TT ) rear and locker front, but will continue to research before I make a decision.

Great thread, Thanks to all who contributed.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:45 AM   #136
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I used to run Detroit Lockers in both ends. To turn the vehicle on the trail I would just initiate some throttle and it would pull the truck around the corner. I did have to add a transmission cooler to my power steering system though because it did heat up the fluid. At that time period the only selectable unit was the ARB. The E-lockers are really nice in my opinion.
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Old 12-09-2012, 07:56 PM   #137
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I would like to know what the other 92-95% of snow is if it is not water.

Snow has a lot of air pockets in it actually, hence the reason it is a good insulator.
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:03 PM   #138
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Obviously you are wrong

I work in the back country. I bought a Sport. I built it to suit MY needs, and that includes ARB lockers up front, and an Auburn Ected-Max rear diff. that is LSD until I hit the switch, then locked.

Might want to look at a persons *build* on their jeep profiles, before you jump to conclusions.... and btw... mine is built for overland travel/work/camp/trips to central America/throughout Mexico and Baja/ mountains of Utah etc.....

My jeep is rather like a Rubicon on steroids but - fitted for MY needs....
Should've gone with a Unimog...
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Old 12-09-2012, 08:18 PM   #139
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Snow has a lot of air pockets in it actually, hence the reason it is a good insulator.
depends on the layering of the snow. a fresh snow of a few feet can be mostly air but with a few sunny days and below freezing nights it quickly compacts into a much harder and thicker layer
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:05 PM   #140
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depends on the layering of the snow. a fresh snow of a few feet can be mostly air but with a few sunny days and below freezing nights it quickly compacts into a much harder and thicker layer
That is true.
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Old 12-09-2012, 09:14 PM   #141
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But to the original poster-- Driver selectable lockers are the best for hardcore off-roading. Yes, they will cut down your turning radius. But a limited slip still will slip and if you exceed the threshold between traction and wheel slippage between the two sides of the differential then it will slip. For example you would never be able to use a LSD if you have one side of the truck off the ground.

E.g (video) For example this Tatra T813 6x6 with full air-lockers selectable by the driver:


That is extreme. If you spend 90% of your time on road and only do light off-roading then LSD will be enough.

If you can get a electronic locker that also does LSD for both the front and rear then you have the best of both worlds.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:17 PM   #142
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Since this thread was bumped, wanted to ask another opinion...

What happens if I add a quality LSD to the front axle? How will the driving characteristics change? What about in 4WD?
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:18 PM   #143
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But to the original poster-- Driver selectable lockers are the best for hardcore off-roading. Yes, they will cut down your turning radius. But a limited slip still will slip and if you exceed the threshold between traction and wheel slippage between the two sides of the differential then it will slip. For example you would never be able to use a LSD if you have one side of the truck off the ground.

E.g (video) For example this Tatra T813 6x6 with full air-lockers selectable by the driver:


That is extreme. If you spend 90% of your time on road and only do light off-roading then LSD will be enough.

If you can get a electronic locker that also does LSD for both the front and rear then you have the best of both worlds.
I would get this without thinking twice except the only ones that are on the market are clutch pack based, which wear. If someone made one without clutches that would be most awesome.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:58 AM   #144
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I would get this without thinking twice except the only ones that are on the market are clutch pack based, which wear. If someone made one without clutches that would be most awesome.

An air locker system or electromagnetic system are the only options I know of without clutches built into them.

One of the nicer features of LSD's is that they will engage automatic while you use it. Where as differential lockers that are selectable are often limited to limited wheel slippage and certain speeds before one can engage them safely.

The only thing is I don't know a mechanical LSD system that isn't going to have clutches in it to work. I'm not sure about Electronic LSD units.

The question will really be how much money you want to spend on it?
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:07 AM   #145
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LSD/Electronic locker.

I had these in my Humvee.

Auburn LSD/electronic lockers.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/aub-545006

You could engage them at any speed, but because it creates a solid axle, engaging the front means you cannot steer well (so you lock the front to get through an obstacle). I ran them with 42" IROKs. it would get through deep mud and ice holes.

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