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Old 08-24-2014, 11:22 AM   #1
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Lumbar support??

What is everyone using for lumbar support in their jeep? I have several fused disks in my lower back and normally I can get the support I need from seat adjustments. Unfortunately the jeep doesn't have it and after an hour or so I start feeling it. There is no way I'm not taking the jeep on road trips so what's everyone using?

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Old 08-24-2014, 12:04 PM   #2
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What is everyone using for lumbar support in their jeep? I have several fused disks in my lower back and normally I can get the support I need from seat adjustments. Unfortunately the jeep doesn't have it and after an hour or so I start feeling it. There is no way I'm not taking the jeep on road trips so what's everyone using?
Are you doing any exercises to strengthen your lower back? There are simple things that don't require a gym membership that will be much better than lumber support in a vehicle's seat.

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Old 08-24-2014, 12:10 PM   #3
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I feel your pain, really. I am fused neck and lower back but have found my Rubicon leather seats to be just fine. When I don't like the seat or I need just a bit of help after a long day I will take out my Jeep towel and put in behind my back. My towel is always rolled up under the left side of the drivers seat.

+1 for strengthening the core.
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Old 08-24-2014, 02:08 PM   #4
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Im 22 and I've had three back surgeries in high school..I agree on the strengthening the core completely, but in reality we can tend to get lazy and slouch in our seats. So all in all as steedgun said a towel will do the job.
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Old 08-24-2014, 02:10 PM   #5
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I have 2 lumbar support pillows that's strapped to my seat....rolled up towel would be cheap and effective
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Old 08-24-2014, 02:16 PM   #6
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a physical therapist recommended those round long pillow like things. Although I still don't use one, I would think it is exactly what you need.
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Old 08-24-2014, 02:31 PM   #7
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a physical therapist recommended those round long pillow like things. Although I still don't use one, I would think it is exactly what you need.
that's exactly what I have
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Old 08-24-2014, 04:41 PM   #8
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Are you doing any exercises to strengthen your lower back? There are simple things that don't require a gym membership that will be much better than lumber support in a vehicle's seat.
I was actually born with my lower disks already fused. This is something that will exist for me no matter what I do. I have to constantly stretch to keep normal flexibility.
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Old 08-24-2014, 04:59 PM   #9
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When I order my Trek Armor seat covers, I also ordered the optional lumbar support. However, I do not like it, for a number of reasons, not least of which the air bladder does not hold air for long. So instead, I use a lumbar support device I found on Amazon, which works very well for me.

http://www.amazon.com/Back-Magic-Mul...lumbar+support
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Old 08-24-2014, 05:02 PM   #10
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Just reading this thread makes my back hurt.
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Old 08-24-2014, 07:44 PM   #11
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If the towel trick does not work then you might want one of the Tempur-Pedic pillows. I own the Pempur-Pedic Travel Neck Pillow and it works great for the lower back. It stores in a nice roll up case and then poofs open and expands. That has been the absolute best for my lower back. I just don't like to carry it around with me. Also, it is pricey. Despite the fact it was designed for the neck it works wonders on a sore lower back. I have been using mine since 2007.

In the Jeep put the larger roll part down, sit on it, and after about 5 minutes it will conform to your back and will NOT press back with too much force.

Here I found an Amazon listing for the pillow.

http://www.amazon.com/The-NeckPillow...el+neck+pillow
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Old 08-24-2014, 09:38 PM   #12
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If the towel trick does not work then you might want one of the Tempur-Pedic pillows. I own the Pempur-Pedic Travel Neck Pillow and it works great for the lower back. It stores in a nice roll up case and then poofs open and expands. That has been the absolute best for my lower back. I just don't like to carry it around with me. Also, it is pricey. Despite the fact it was designed for the neck it works wonders on a sore lower back. I have been using mine since 2007.

In the Jeep put the larger roll part down, sit on it, and after about 5 minutes it will conform to your back and will NOT press back with too much force.

Here I found an Amazon listing for the pillow.

Amazon.com : The NeckPillow by Tempur-Pedic Travel 10 x 12 x 4 : Neck Pillows : Everything Else
Thanks, I am going to check that out.
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Old 08-24-2014, 10:42 PM   #13
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Trust me on this one. Get your hips higher than your knees. All car seats do the opposite. When your hips are higher than your knees, your sacrum and pelvis go up and forward and because your body is a lever system, your upper body comes back by itself. This stops you from slumping and takes the pressure off your back. Either fold towels to accomplish this or get this orthopedic wedge seat cushion, posture seat wedge | EZ Posture Products. Just about everyone of my patients have one and would never use anything else. This wedge is firm while most others compress which does nothing. Because car seats are buckets, you will need to fold a towel and put that on the seat first and then the cushion on top. If while sitting on it your butt or legs bother you, it's too low. If your back or higher bothers you, it's too high. Any questions, pm me. Also, if you want to get one, pm me and I will give you my info. You get a discount by mentioning my name.
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Old 08-24-2014, 11:20 PM   #14
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Trust me on this one. Get your hips higher than your knees. All car seats do the opposite. When your hips are higher than your knees, your sacrum and pelvis go up and forward and because your body is a lever system, your upper body comes back by itself. This stops you from slumping and takes the pressure off your back. Either fold towels to accomplish this or get this orthopedic wedge seat cushion, posture seat wedge | EZ Posture Products. Just about everyone of my patients have one and would never use anything else. This wedge is firm while most others compress which does nothing. Because car seats are buckets, you will need to fold a towel and put that on the seat first and then the cushion on top. If while sitting on it your butt or legs bother you, it's too low. If your back or higher bothers you, it's too high. Any questions, pm me. Also, if you want to get one, pm me and I will give you my info. You get a discount by mentioning my name.
Nice post Doc, glad you are one of us!
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Old 08-24-2014, 11:25 PM   #15
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Nice post Doc, glad you are one of us!
Thanks steed. By your signature and you name, I am more like you than you know lol. Dealing with the insane gun laws here in NY and trying to change things to stop the cancer from spreading. Carry on.
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Old 08-24-2014, 11:59 PM   #16
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Figured I would put this in for those interested in learning what to do.
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:16 PM   #17
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FWIW Iím a physical therapist and I do a lot of work with low back pain, and I consider myself a bit of a connoisseur of lumbar supports. I agree with the one poster who said that core strength is important, but no amount of core strength is going to protect your discs from degeneration if your seat position is putting your spine frequent/prolonged flexion (AKA slouching). If you already have back problems then I think good lumbar support is imperative.

I did blog a while back on lumbar supports decreasing pain on airline flights (with seats that feel a lot like my jeep seat) in which researchers used an adjustable back support that you pumped up with air that costs about $40 if I remember correctly. However, when I tested one out driving I found it fragile and didnít hold up to hard use. My current favorite lumbar support is a piece of cardboard ~18Ē wide and maybe 36Ē long folded up and flattened in ~6Ē segments until itís 4-6 layers thick. Best thing about the cardboard is you can adjust it to your own comfort level (adding or subtracting layers to your comfort), itís durable, and itís FREE, so if you lose it on the trail you can just make another. Iíve found most commercial lumbar supports are too thick for most cars/low backs and I have yet to find something better than the folded cardboard, though it is a bit unsightly.

Anyway hereís a couple studies I blogged talking about low back supports in sitting, the latter being on taxi drivers who are sitting a number of hours per day, which I just wrote up last night having read this thread.

https://www.absolutept.com/preventin...rline-flights/

https://www.absolutept.com/decreasin...while-driving/
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:13 PM   #18
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I use a Seal Line Discovery Kayak Back rest. Inflate it to what feels good for you and leave it. For a 4 hour drive it's a life saver.

They cost abut $25 at REI or most paddle sports stores.
Made in USA and fits the JK seat very well, packs up smaller than beer can.

I have to say JK seats just suck. I've had 2 different JK's (07 & 12) and they are all the same.
I don't think it has anything to do with your core strength or fitness level. They hurt everyone's back after an hour or two no matter how old, young heavy or light they are.

They feel exactly like a coach class seat in a 30 year old Boeing 727.
Flat as my first girlfriend with no lumbar or lateral support whatsoever.

I've even added 1" rubber bushings under the seat mounts in the front to tilt it back a little. The forward lean on these seats is a whole different issue.
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Old 08-26-2014, 08:47 PM   #19
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"The greatest tragedy in science is the slaying of a beautiful theory, by an ugly fact."

Folks, this is not my opinion, but an observation. Forget about pillows or stuff behind your back. Get your hips higher than your knees. Watch the video above and try it. See if you don't experience the same exact thing.
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:44 PM   #20
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For all of these lumbar ideas, if you have or get seat covers and are able to work the support in between the seat and cover when you install it you can get it just the way you want it and leave it. I did this with an old truck that had rather...utilitarian bucket seats.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:12 PM   #21
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Dr Evil, I watched your video and I think for unsupported sitting having your hips above your knees is in general a good idea, but when I try it I can still slouch/flex my spine, though there is less of a tendency. However in a jeep your knees feet are higher than when sitting on a chair, such that a bit of recline isn't a bad thing, and with proper lumbar support (whether inflatable or folded cardboard) and good positioning you really can't slouch. Research (not just anecdotal observation) shows that a lumbar support helps maintain a neutral spine, which is a good thing and lessens low back pain. It's science.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:34 PM   #22
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I'm certainly not a doctor but another option that I haven't seen mentioned:

MasterCraft 600001 - MasterCraft Driver Side Lumbar Option - Quadratec

It's a lumbar support you install in your seat but it's not one of the blow up things. I don't have one myself so I personally can't vouch for it. Just throwing it out there.
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Old 08-26-2014, 10:58 PM   #23
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Dr Evil, I watched your video and I think for unsupported sitting having your hips above your knees is in general a good idea, but when I try it I can still slouch/flex my spine, though there is less of a tendency. However in a jeep your knees feet are higher than when sitting on a chair, such that a bit of recline isn't a bad thing, and with proper lumbar support (whether inflatable or folded cardboard) and good positioning you really can't slouch. Research (not just anecdotal observation) shows that a lumbar support helps maintain a neutral spine, which is a good thing and lessens low back pain. It's science.
I respectfully disagree. I tell my patients it isn't about what I think or what I like or don't like. It is about how bodies work. Nothing "anecdotal" about it by the way but thanks for the laugh. Anyone can "make" their body slump, that is not what I meant. Your shoulders should go down, but shouldn't roll forward as well as you body shouldn't collapse forward. And yes, having your knees higher than your hips with a slight recline isn't a good idea. Every car does this yet that doesn't mean it is correct, that is why the wedge changes that and gets your hips higher. I am not trying to maintain a "neutral" spine. I am just trying to put my body in a mechanical position where it won't do damage. My patients have been told many "scientific" things that they have found not to be exactly true so understand I am not impressed with just following "science". I do these things day in and day out and not once has it varied from what I presented. No disrespect intended, we just have different realities. Sorry to take the thread in this direction. I was just trying to share facts instead of a bunch of nice theories. Folks can try both suggestions and see the results for themselves I guess.
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Old 08-27-2014, 12:34 AM   #24
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I respectfully disagree. I tell my patients it isn't about what I think or what I like or don't like. It is about how bodies work.
So why are you against people using a lumbar support?

Quote:
Nothing "anecdotal" about it by the way but thanks for the laugh.
The second research study I cited and talked about specifically stated that seat angle was not associated with low back pain when driving. Other than anecdote, what do you have to refute that?

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Anyone can "make" their body slump, that is not what I meant.
It seemed to me that in your video you were having people demonstrate that they could not slump when sitting on a wedge? I was able to slump, with maybe 80-90% of my normal ease. That's better than 100% of the normal ease, but it was still relatively easy to slump.

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Your shoulders should go down, but shouldn't roll forward as well as you body shouldn't collapse forward.
I agree.

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And yes, having your knees higher than your hips with a slight recline isn't a good idea.
If your spine is kept neutral, why not?

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Every car does this yet that doesn't mean it is correct, that is why the wedge changes that and gets your hips higher.
Great.

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I am not trying to maintain a "neutral" spine. I am just trying to put my body in a mechanical position where it won't do damage.
Why not try to maintain a neutral spine? If not neutral what spine position are you suggesting puts the body in less risk of damage, flexed or extended?

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My patients have been told many "scientific" things that they have found not to be exactly true so understand I am not impressed with just following "science".
Back to anecdotes then?

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I do these things day in and day out and not once has it varied from what I presented.
That's an anecdote.

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No disrespect intended, we just have different realities.
Realities are the same regardless of our opinions. Lumbar supports have been demonstrated to decrease low back pain regardless of your perception.

Quote:
Sorry to take the thread in this direction. I was just trying to share facts instead of a bunch of nice theories.
See that's the thing about science. You come up with a theory and you test it to see if it is true or not. Lumbar supports that help to maintain a neutral spine have been shown to decrease low back pain, as I cited.

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Folks can try both suggestions and see the results for themselves I guess.
Of course they can, and I gave them a way they can make a lumbar support for 0 dollars and 0 cents. I suppose they could put some folded cardboard under their hips and that would would moderately decrease spine flexion stress, or they could put the support in the small of their back and that would eliminate spine flexion. I know you said you are not trying to maintain a neutral spine with your wedge, but I really think you ought to be.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:21 AM   #25
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Not against a lumbar support. Again, it is not a personal like or dislike. Many people use arch supports or orthotics. My dad was a podiatrist. When I showed him why they aren't good as I do my patients, his response was "I guess I screwed up bodies." It isn't that I don't "like" them, it comes down to if something isn't necessary or negatively effects structure, I won't recommend it. Not looking to derail the thread with your other opinions so I will leave it here. Do what you think is right. Enjoy your lumbar supports and drive safe.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:51 AM   #26
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Not against a lumbar support. Again, it is not a personal like or dislike. Many people use arch supports or orthotics. My dad was a podiatrist. When I showed him why they aren't good as I do my patients, his response was "I guess I screwed up bodies." It isn't that I don't "like" them, it comes down to if something isn't necessary or negatively effects structure, I won't recommend it.
If a jeep seat does not have good lumbar support (and it doesn't) why wouldn't you recommend a person with back pain add a lumbar support? Why do you think lumbar supports negatively effect "structure?" What particular structure are you talking about anyway? And what do orthotics have to do with the price of tea in China?

Quote:
Not looking to derail the thread with your other opinions so I will leave it here.
I'd leave it alone too if I were you. Properly sized and positioned lumbar supports have been researched and demonstrated to decrease low back pain while driving, and during prolonged sitting. That's a fact. Yet in post #19 you were telling people, with back pain and prior back surgeries to "forget about" them. That just sounds irresponsible to me.
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Old 08-27-2014, 12:25 PM   #27
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I am not a doctor or scientist but here is what I use:
Amazon.com: Posture Perfect Mesh Lumbar Support: Sports & Outdoors
Not certain if this is the exact same one because I got mine at TJ Max- but you get the idea. I also have this one:
http://www.brookstone.com/LUMBAR-SUP...NI-FOAM-PILLOW
I like both for different reasons (bought at different times).. But I'd suggest that everyone is different so just get something and try it. The first one was $9 so I figured what the heck. I was extremely happy I bought it. Drove 8 hours to Lake Tahoe without issue. Couple of days later drove Rubicon Trail. Our first leg was almost 9 hours of near constant rock crawling. We both were back pain free- which is a big deal because even 5 hour wheeling trips used to hurt my back. Cheap fixes that were well worth it.
Thanks for the note about the Trek Armor lumbar Black and Tan- won't spend the money when I buy my seat covers.
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:40 PM   #28
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If a jeep seat does not have good lumbar support (and it doesn't) why wouldn't you recommend a person with back pain add a lumbar support? Why do you think lumbar supports negatively effect "structure?" What particular structure are you talking about anyway? And what do orthotics have to do with the price of tea in China?


I'd leave it alone too if I were you. Properly sized and positioned lumbar supports have been researched and demonstrated to decrease low back pain while driving, and during prolonged sitting. That's a fact. Yet in post #19 you were telling people, with back pain and prior back surgeries to "forget about" them. That just sounds irresponsible to me.
It is one thing to know that you don't know. It is another to not know that you don't know. I said what I had to say and tried to end it. You seem to want to keep at it. You have something else to say to me take the high road and pm me. I don't take kindly to public threats or insults. And yes, patients who have back pain and prior surgeries need to stop the nonsense and apply what works. I've seen consistent repetitive predictable results for 15 years applying this in my practice. Do what you "feel" is right. I'll do what I see is right.
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:16 PM   #29
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It is one thing to know that you don't know. It is another to not know that you don't know.
You're projecting.

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You have something else to say to me take the high road and pm me.
We're on a public forum in which people with back pain and back surgeries are asking about lumbar supports. You have said they should forget about lumbar supports. I would be doing them a disservice if I criticized your advice only in private, though I fully understand why you would prefer that I do so.

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I don't take kindly to public threats or insults.
I don't recall doing either.

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I've seen consistent repetitive predictable results for 15 years applying this in my practice.
That's a great anecdote. What do you make of all the anecdotes of other posters who do report pain relief with the use of lumbar supports? Just lucky?

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Do what you "feel" is right. I'll do what I see is right.
That's very clever of you you imply other people just feel things while you actually see them with your eyes. However for the sake of argument you should really try to come up with a comment that not only sounds clever, but wouldn't be more apt if applied to yourself. Else people might make comments about the pot calling the kettle black.
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Old 08-27-2014, 05:18 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Dr. Evil View Post
It is one thing to know that you don't know. It is another to not know that you don't know. I said what I had to say and tried to end it. You seem to want to keep at it. You have something else to say to me take the high road and pm me. I don't take kindly to public threats or insults. And yes, patients who have back pain and prior surgeries need to stop the nonsense and apply what works. I've seen consistent repetitive predictable results for 15 years applying this in my practice. Do what you "feel" is right. I'll do what I see is right.
I'm unable to view the video you posted with my mobile device, so my apology if the following questions are redundant:

1) How does the wedge prevent sliding forward?

2) Are there height concerns?

3) Is the combination of a wedge and lumbar support not recommended? Could both be used?

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