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Old 11-14-2011, 07:39 PM   #1
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Angry My 2011 Wrangler a lemon??

Need some advice.. this is my fourth wrangler, my past 3 I never once had a problem with any of them. This one seems to be a lemon (I didn't think it was possible with a Wrangler)
  • Drove it out of the lot brand new in February and it just didn't sound right, it sounded very "tinny". I had a 2008 and the engine hasn't changed so it should sound the same right? The dealer said it sounds normal.
  • In March when I would accelerate it sounded like something was loose in the engine and there was rattling. I brought it to the dealership, it took a week to fix (they had to take the engine apart) but they apparently fixed it. Still sounds tinny to me and VERY underpowered and sluggish. Maybe it's because it has more bells and whistles than my 2008 it is heavier therefore slower??
  • 2 weeks ago we had a major storm and the front side passenger area flooded, BAD. I have a 3 piece hard top and soft top. It floods with both tops so it can't be the roof, right? Took it back to the dealership and they said they fixed that (still waiting for it to rain to test it out)...
  • NOW the airbag light and seatbelt light are on all the time and the seatbelt alarm won't stop beeping, I have to take it BACK TO THE DEALERSHIP again.
  • The engine now is starting to rattle again at different times, it seems to mostly do it only when I'm accelerating uphill.
This car is driving me nuts!! Anyone having similar problems?? Advice PLEASE??? I really wish I could just return this car...

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Old 11-14-2011, 07:46 PM   #2
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:56 PM   #3
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:57 PM   #4
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Look up the lemon laws for your state. There are plenty of sites online. For example, here in SC, if the vehicle is in the shop for a cumulative of 30 days during the warranty period = lemon.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:59 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cu in oz
Poor OP

As long as the jeep is fine
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:04 PM   #6
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Most likely, your rattle is a skid shield over some exhaust component and not a big deal. But just in case, try this: next time you get fuel, get fuel from a reputable franchised fuel vendor (think Chevron, Exxon, etc) not from a no-name vendor (Costco, Safeway, etc). Also, step up and buy a tank of hi-test. The higher the octane the better. (Yeah, it's more $, but for an extra 20 cents a gallon, X 20 gallons, it's only costing a few extra dollars). And if you can buy it without the Ethanol content, that's even better. What you're attempting to isolate, is if your rattle is due to inadequate ocatane.

Also, next time it needs to go to a shop, take it to a different dealership. Have the mechanic drive with you. You may find your issue is not the vehicle, but rather the mechanic.

And for what it's worth, in Washington State, and I'd guess most states, you're a far far distance from qualifying for Lemon Law status. But make sure you document your repairs, independantly of the shop.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:09 PM   #7
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Really..... Possibly detonation?

All the time though?
I can see a tank of bad Gas maybe.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:21 PM   #8
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__tree__ rattle from low octane? i have been building cars for almost 13 years and i dont know of any rattle that would come from low octane.. your engine could be slugglish, slow to respond, miss fire, rough ide, bad gas milage. in if it was very low octane you could even have a knock, but never a rattle. that and out engines are made to run off of the cheep gas anyways so i dont see that being a problem. if somehow im mistaken on that please let me know.

he is right to check with your state laws about lemons.. and also checking with another mechanic is a very good idea.

what part did they replace on your engine the frist time? if you dont know ask your dealership for a history print out and i can tell you what any "coded repairs" mean.. just stating they wont put the actualy part name sometimes if they can get away with it.

lets start hear
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:30 PM   #9
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__tree__ rattle from low octane? i have been building cars for almost 13 years and i dont know of any rattle that would come from low octane.. your engine could be slugglish, slow to respond, miss fire, rough ide, bad gas milage. in if it was very low octane you could even have a knock, but never a rattle. that and out engines are made to run off of the cheep gas anyways so i dont see that being a problem. if somehow im mistaken on that please let me know.
I've found that the internet is particularly vague. What one user types as 'rattle' another user would call a 'ping', and yet a another user would describe as a 'clunking'. So.......

In Washington, the Ethanol blended fuels in the winter months do drastically lower octane ratings. Yeahhh, I know the pump says differently.

Out of the thousands of cars I've seen in our shop, damn near every one of them runs fine on winter fuel blends, most even run great. But if the OP was repeatedly purchasing fuel from the same pump (with every tank), then maybe, just maybe, it's fuel related.

I've always been of the opinion it's easy to eliminate the obvious. Three things needed for an engine to run: Fuel & Air, Compresssion, Spark (at the correct timing). Fuel is easy to isolate, and cheap. Why not try it first?
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:33 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by AntiTrust
__tree__ rattle from low octane? i have been building cars for almost 13 years and i dont know of any rattle that would come from low octane.. your engine could be slugglish, slow to respond, miss fire, rough ide, bad gas milage. in if it was very low octane you could even have a knock, but never a rattle. that and out engines are made to run off of the cheep gas anyways so i dont see that being a problem. if somehow im mistaken on that please let me know.

he is right to check with your state laws about lemons.. and also checking with another mechanic is a very good idea.

what part did they replace on your engine the frist time? if you dont know ask your dealership for a history print out and i can tell you what any "coded repairs" mean.. just stating they wont put the actualy part name sometimes if they can get away with it.

lets start hear
Fwiw, if I put the low 87 octane in mine, it "pings" when I accelerate especially uphill as well. If I put super 93 octane, no more pinging. Duplicatable with every tank of gas. What I dont know not being mechanically inclined is, is it hurting anything (doing damage) when the engine pings like this or am I just losing performance?
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:46 PM   #11
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i see more of what your saying now... but simply buying a 4$ octane booster will also do the trick... and seeing as he said that it was fine after the shop "fixed" whatever engine part was wrong and its now comming back i just would think its down that ave. not to argue with you just my thought.

yes many people can describe a noise many diff ways and i do agree with that.

i think the next step in helping the OP is to find out what the dealership replaced.
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Old 11-14-2011, 08:57 PM   #12
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Fwiw, if I put the low 87 octane in mine, it "pings" when I accelerate especially uphill as well. If I put super 93 octane, no more pinging. Duplicatable with every tank of gas. What I dont know not being mechanically inclined is, is it hurting anything (doing damage) when the engine pings like this or am I just losing performance?

well using 93 octane isnt helping your engine at all unless someone has flashed your ecu or corrected A/R for 93 octane.. when you open your manual and it tells your that your engine is rated for 87-89 octaine then use that fuel.. unless you have done something to it.

any "ping" in a engine is created from metal on metal contact and thats not really soposed to happen..on that note let me state this, MANY things can SEEM to "ping" or make this noise but they really arnt. it also depends on your engine load, and rpm's and engine temp, oil temp, oil presure, hell ambient temp (outside). many many many things effect this.

so to you i would first answer this question.. is it stock ?

if yes, have you tried some fuel injector cleaner? or tested your fuel injectors? i would start here
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:04 PM   #13
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i see more of what your saying now... but simply buying a 4$ octane booster will also do the trick... and seeing as he said that it was fine after the shop "fixed" whatever engine part was wrong and its now comming back i just would think its down that ave. not to argue with you just my thought.
Wouldn't it be funny, if the shop's repair was a can of Techron & some Octane Boost?
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:05 PM   #14
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i would be humbled i guess haha..
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:13 PM   #15
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Sea foam ?

Also doesn't the manual say "light knock won't cause harm"
I read that somewhere.

I have a tuner. Reading the forms, a lot of folks that thought they had a ping/knock--
It turned out to be broken heat shield welds on the exhaust.

I get light pinging running winter blend 87 on the 87 tune. Perfect with 89
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:36 PM   #16
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well using 93 octane isnt helping your engine at all unless someone has flashed your ecu or corrected A/R for 93 octane.. when you open your manual and it tells your that your engine is rated for 87-89 octaine then use that fuel.. unless you have done something to it.
Generally speaking that's not true. Octane rating is a retardant. The higher the number the octane is, the slower the fuel burns. This is why it helps with preignition.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:05 PM   #17
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I just spoke to the company today that will be handling the repurchase of our 2011 JKUR. Chrysler handed it off to an outside vendor. Our Wrangler had it's first reported engine problem at 314 miles, a short block installed right at 5000 miles, we are at 8600 miles and the engine noise is still there, not to mention a host of smaller issues. Washington State is really not that hard to qualify, one way is days out of service. The magic number is thirty, ours was in the shop for nearly forty days. Another way is a serious nonconformity with four attempts to fail to diagnose or repair. Safety issues would be another way in the state of Washington. I would recommend documenting everything and stay in good standing with your dealership, not absolutely necessary, but sure makes things easier with them on your side. The route I took was to contact the Attorney General to get all details about my rights and then I contacted Chrysler and requested a repurchase. I chose to take an informal approach by asking first, rather than a certified letter with notice on intent. Chrysler came along side and made the offer to repurchase. Good luck, hope you get your issues resolved.
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Old 11-15-2011, 12:52 AM   #18
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I'm in Ohio and they sell 87 octane on the low end. We'e 600' altitude, no pinging.
When I travel to Colorado, octane is down to 85 (in the mountains) so perhaps there is less pinging at altitude allowing 85 to work? Jeep is less enthuiastic out there.
running at 8000'

I wonder what octane your running and what elevation you drive at?
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Old 11-15-2011, 07:56 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by AntiTrust

well using 93 octane isnt helping your engine at all unless someone has flashed your ecu or corrected A/R for 93 octane.. when you open your manual and it tells your that your engine is rated for 87-89 octaine then use that fuel.. unless you have done something to it.

any "ping" in a engine is created from metal on metal contact and thats not really soposed to happen..on that note let me state this, MANY things can SEEM to "ping" or make this noise but they really arnt. it also depends on your engine load, and rpm's and engine temp, oil temp, oil presure, hell ambient temp (outside). many many many things effect this.

so to you i would first answer this question.. is it stock ?

if yes, have you tried some fuel injector cleaner? or tested your fuel injectors? i would start here
Thanks for the reply!
It's stock. And man, describing noises is tough huh? Call it what you want, but there is a ping/clankirt clank noise in acceleration that is alleviated with higher octane. Its enoigh noise my wife can hear it and she rarely rides in it. I personally don't care about the noise as long as its not doing any damage which is where my question is.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:32 AM   #20
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Seems most states lemon laws are very similar. Maryland requires four attempts for the same problem or in the shop for over 30 days. Certified letter has to be sent to the manufacturer requesting for the problem to be fixed in 30 days. After that it’s legally a lemon and they either buy back on the down low or go through arbitration. If that does not happen and you take it to court and win the manufacturer has to buy it back and pay your attorney fees.
I’ve already done all of the above so I qualify for the lemon law if my Wrangler goes back again. If it happens I’ll basically give them four options and one of those four requires an attorney. It’s raining all day today and tomorrow so I’ll see if it’s good to go. Keep documentation on everything and discuss your issue with a lemon law attorney. You should be take lots of pictures and request for the pictures taken by the dealer because you have to prove everything if it goes to court. You could also pay to have it checked out by a certified mechanic. You’ll come out of pocket for the check but if you have a professional backing you up it looks good on your part. Good luck with your lemon.
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Old 11-15-2011, 02:13 PM   #21
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You should NEVER have to add octane booster of any sort to a stock engine. Read your manual, the recommended fuel for this engine is 87-89 octane (only use 88-89 when you are at any kind of altitude, this is because there is less oxygen at this level. Think fire triangle (O2, fuel, heat)). The engineers designed this engine to run optimally with 87 octane. If it is not running correctly then you have another issue. Like AntiTrust said, check your injectors first, then go from there. Any engine smoke, like unburnt fuel?
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Old 11-15-2011, 06:34 PM   #22
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Thumbs down

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm a 26 year old girl so of course I have no idea what the dealer fixed. He just said there was something loose in the engine. The engine still sounds like crap and is sluggish so it's going back to the dealership. Going to look up NY's lemon laws...
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Old 11-16-2011, 06:52 AM   #23
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My friend has a 2011 jk and also had a problem with flooding in the passenger side floormat. I have an 07 and haven't had any problems with it. It could be possible that the water is coming from up underneath the car but i'm not sure.
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:12 PM   #24
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Thanks everyone for the replies. I'm a 26 year old girl so of course I have no idea what the dealer fixed. He just said there was something loose in the engine. The engine still sounds like crap and is sluggish so it's going back to the dealership. Going to look up NY's lemon laws...
Just curious at this point since it seems as if your problems are possibly being addressed to an extent. If you have the window sticker look to see where the engine was assembled. Was it Mexico? It will also tell you where the trans was assembled.
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Old 11-16-2011, 02:24 PM   #25
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I really wish I could just return this car...

You might--almost--be able to.

How many miles do you have on it? There are a variety of discount programs folks here have been using to buy new (2012) Wranglers below invoice. It might be worth it to just fuss for a little bit, drop the words "lemon law" a few times, and then see if the dealer will give you a good trade-in price to go ahead and buy a new one.

A lemon law suit may indeed be an option, but it'll be time consuming and uncertain. Absent that, the dealer and Chrysler may run you around forever performing random spats of warranty work. It might be worth it just to loose two or three grand on the trade-in and call it a day, particularly if your confidence in the vehicle is really low and you don't have the mechanical savvy to challenge some of the dealer's explanations.

Just a thought.
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Old 11-17-2011, 02:26 AM   #26
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Does it sound like this??

My exhaust has gremlins too!

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Old 11-17-2011, 07:07 AM   #27
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i see more of what your saying now... but simply buying a 4$ octane booster will also do the trick... and seeing as he said that it was fine after the shop "fixed" whatever engine part was wrong and its now comming back i just would think its down that ave. not to argue with you just my thought.

yes many people can describe a noise many diff ways and i do agree with that.

i think the next step in helping the OP is to find out what the dealership replaced.

Octane boosters are somewhat of a scam. When they say they increase octane by 4 point it means if you use 87 octane, after you use a bottle of octane boost you now have 87.4 octane

There is no octane booster sold in the auto stores that will raise real octane more then .4 octane and most want even do that.
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:58 AM   #28
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Generally speaking that's not true. Octane rating is a retardant. The higher the number the octane is, the slower the fuel burns. This is why it helps with preignition.

yes.. sooooooo if your injectors / timing cycle are set for a low octane or tolerace fuel and you are using a high octane fuel you simply cannot burn off all the fuel from each cycle leaving you with left over fuel. this isnt good in fact its almost as bad as running to low of an octane. *all of this is relivent to how you drive and the fuel demands / power loads you put on your car*

____to the octane booster thing, yes if you have a 14 gallon take and put in one "can" of octane booster you will yeild from what i have actaully read its 1/2 a % of octane. so on that same note if you have 4 gallons or so of gas you just made it quite a lot more effective, agreed? yes thanks_____

---OP, if you do not know what the dealership fixed on your jeep do two things for me please, one: go ask them for a history report on your jeep and it will be in plain words what they did.. if you dont know what anything means ask them on the spot. TWO: bring the report and yourself to a local mechanic, ask some friends or family who they trust and just see if one they tell you the same thing the dealership did about the engine and to take a ride a-long with you for the noise...

*****I hate telling anyone online or over the phone that any noise is okay or not okay, i can tell you esp. comming from a huge, let me say that again HUGE subaru back ground, engines can make some odd nosies and its 100% okay. try telling some old man that his brad new subaru is soposed to have a little rod knock in the engine, he didnt like that, but alas if only using one step higher octane fuel eliminates all your issues with nose then well, fork over the extra $ i guess.******
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Old 11-18-2011, 04:24 AM   #29
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Does it sound like this??

My exhaust has gremlins too!
That sounds like a skid plate or exhaust hanger is loose and rattling/vibrating. I don't think that is the actual exhaust coming from the tailpipe.

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