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Old 06-13-2011, 10:30 PM   #61
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<lesson>
Lets say that the other foot that is near the pedals has to tromp on the brake, do you know what would happen? Well, when the brake begins to slow the car down, normally your left foot would keep your body from being thrown forward but with it up there, your body will not be stopped from moving forward and thus would apply additional pressure to the brake pedal that your right foot would be on. Once this process starts, you would not be able to come off the brake because it is that foot that is keeping you from slamming into the dash. In physics this system is known as a positive feedback system. This particular situation will result in the car stopping as well as if you had intentionally slammed on the brakes in a car (or jeep) with an ABS. When I learned that lesson, I was lucky there was nobody behind me. It shocked the hell out of me and since then I make it a point to have my left foot in for support on the floor against the momentum created on your body by your right foot being on the brake.
</lesson>
i agree completely. especially if you need to stop fast and avoid someone from rear-ending you after. (happened to me thurs) your forward momentum would push you into the brake pedal until you stopped, and stalled (if in a manual). and if you needed to give it a little gas to move out of the way, you would never have enough time.

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Old 06-13-2011, 10:31 PM   #62
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That no stall feature only works in 1st in 4 low. Is that what you are referring to here?
you can stall in 4LO in 1st...

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Old 06-13-2011, 10:33 PM   #63
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you can stall in 4LO in 1st...
Not in a JK. It'll just burn your brakes while you creep . . . creep . . . creep forward. It's more torque than the brakes can stop.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:35 PM   #64
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Not in a JK. It'll just burn your brakes while you creep . . . creep . . . creep forward.
I thought you could start it in 1st while in 4L, not have it run forever. Am I mistaken? how would it do that? Does the electric starter start turning over, because I specifically do not want a Hybrid.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:38 PM   #65
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I thought you could start it in 1st while in 4L, not have it run forever. Am I mistaken? how would it do that? Does the electric starter start turning over, because I specifically do not want a Hybrid.
I've never tried it, but I understand you can start in first in 4lo as well. Correct.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:39 PM   #66
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I have manual. Keep doors off about 5-6 months of year minimum. And keep right foot out of door a lot. Drove from Columbia to charlotte and back 3 times last 5 weeks. And will do at least 3 more times by Aug. A lot of cruise time.
Aaaah, found it.....got me to look though.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:42 PM   #67
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That no stall feature only works in 1st in 4 low. Is that what you are referring to here?
No, i'm referring to the fact that the Jeep is going to stop if you mash the brakes. Whether you get to the clutch or not. It sounds like people are afraid of it running away wild if the driver doesn't cruise around with their foot hovering over the clutch in anticipation of Bambi running out infront of them...
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:45 PM   #68
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I've never tried it, but I understand you can start in first in 4lo as well. Correct.
Yes, starting in 4 low is easy because of the gearing allows the starter to turn easy against the pressure of the drive train.

If you ever lost the throw-out bearing, you could start it in 2wd in 1st. It will buck a little but will go. Then all you have to do is try not to stop again and shift it without a clutch. All of this can be done and with practice, without grinding the gears. I once used it to drive my disabled car to the dealer to have them fix the throw-out bearing. Distance was about 10 miles. Timed all the lights just right to go through when they were green.

Practice now when you don't need it so that when you do need it, it will be there as a skill.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:52 PM   #69
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No, i'm referring to the fact that the Jeep is going to stop if you mash the brakes. Whether you get to the clutch or not. It sounds like people are afraid of it running away wild if the driver doesn't cruise around with their foot hovering over the clutch in anticipation of Bambi running out infront of them...
If you were speaking about my description of uncontrolled stop, then no what I was saying is that if the left foot wasn't able to support your weight, either on the floor (as in automatic) or on the clutch (as in standard) then when your body gets thrown forward, there will be no way to come off of the brake and the brake will be applied even harder by your weight moving forward. When I say uncontrolled stop I mean from 60 or whatever your speed to zero in the shortest distance possible without being able to change what is happening until the vehicle is at a complete stop. Don't believe me. Find a secluded area and stop with two feet on the brake. Then you will understand. You will stop so hard that you may hurt yourself on the dash. Having your left foot far enough away as in on the pegs will create the same situation.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:54 PM   #70
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my jeep is an auto....and i like my foot out, thanks for making this thread 3 pages and going strong, good lord people....JEEP=FUN....thats all.
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Old 06-13-2011, 10:57 PM   #71
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my jeep is an auto....and i like my foot out, thanks for making this thread 3 pages and going strong, good lord people....JEEP=FUN....thats all.
Something wrong about talking about the risks involved in a risky behavior?

Ya, sure, it is fun until you get hurt....or you hurt someone else.
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Old 06-13-2011, 11:17 PM   #72
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my jeep is an auto....and i like my foot out, thanks for making this thread 3 pages and going strong, good lord people....JEEP=FUN....thats all.
you know this is a forum...where people talk, right? nobody is saying useless info, just giving their opinions.

i dont like your footpegs. lol kidding.
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Old 06-14-2011, 12:04 AM   #73
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Guess my sweety shouldn't have used those darn footpegs

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Old 06-14-2011, 12:14 AM   #74
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Guess my sweety shouldn't have used those darn footpegs

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Old 06-14-2011, 12:41 AM   #75
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Guess my sweety shouldn't have used those darn footpegs

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Old 06-14-2011, 12:52 AM   #76
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No, i'm referring to the fact that the Jeep is going to stop if you mash the brakes. Whether you get to the clutch or not. It sounds like people are afraid of it running away wild if the driver doesn't cruise around with their foot hovering over the clutch in anticipation of Bambi running out infront of them...
Not a JK in 4L and 1st gear. As long as you don't touch the clutch or the gas, when you mash the brake the computer will raise the RPM's to prevent the stall.
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Old 06-14-2011, 01:04 AM   #77
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I'd rather someone stick their foot on a peg over texting and/or talking while driving.

I don't care what anyone does with them and their vehicle... Just as long as it doesn't increase the risk to me while I'm driving. Other then that, drive on home boys and gals. Lofl
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Old 06-14-2011, 02:43 AM   #78
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Aaaah, found it.....got me to look though.
D'oh! Few to many drinks while typing
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Old 06-14-2011, 09:40 PM   #79
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Not a JK in 4L and 1st gear. As long as you don't touch the clutch or the gas, when you mash the brake the computer will raise the RPM's to prevent the stall.
You spend alot of time rolling down the highway in 1st 4L?
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Old 06-15-2011, 07:10 AM   #80
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^^ I don't think that was the point he was making. I think what he was countering was the post above his that talked about people being worried that the jeep wouldn't stop or something if you hit the brakes while in gear. The point was the jeep will do that but only in 4 low in first gear.

The more major problem is the uncontrolled and sudden stop, once started it cannot be gotten out of. That is due to the momentum of your body being thrown forward due to the force of braking and nothing to hold it back.
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:41 AM   #81
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I've never tried it, but I understand you can start in first in 4lo as well. Correct.
I tried it...it does work. I wouldn't recommend doing it unless you really need to. It didn't sound pretty!
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:46 AM   #82
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There is gonna be some bucking to and fro. It ain't pretty. It works. Hang onto your hat if you do it in 2WD! I wouldn't recommend doing in 2WD unless you were on flat or downhill terrain.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:58 PM   #83
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God made automatics through man's hands and now lazy people all over the world pay extra money to have them installed...
(Fixed so that we're on the same page so to speak.)

I have an auto, JK'n, and I would like to stick both of my legs out of the door, but I don't have the energy to do so. I do intend to rig up a pulley system that will lift my left leg by the ankle and swing it out of the door so I don't have to use my leg muscles and strain myself.

Sketching out my idea now. Write-up and pics to follow as I proceed with this build and hire someone to write-it up, take pictures and build it for me.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:28 PM   #84
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JK'n your physics system is flawed. With the foot out the window (against the window sill) or on a peg it is up against something stable that the leg can put pressure on just as if it was in the footwell and pressing on the floor or firewall keeping the body from moving forward.

I dont see this being any worse than passengers who put their feet on the airbag while driving. Hell those things can go off without even being in accident (rare but can happen) I have never felt the need to know what my knee smells like when crammed into my skull. I have a manual and drive with my foot on the hinge sometimes.

Also whoever it was that said that with your legs being more splayed would slow down the raction time of your pedal foot from gas to brake, I would love to see some proof of those shenanigans. I have no difference in speed between the pedals.
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:24 PM   #85
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JK'n your physics system is flawed. With the foot out the window (against the window sill) or on a peg it is up against something stable that the leg can put pressure on just as if it was in the footwell and pressing on the floor or firewall keeping the body from moving forward.
If you know the physics then I am surprised that you didn't pick up on the sum of forces at an angle. The obtuse angle formed by your left foot on the peg being that far away from your right foot on the brake you would not be able to cancel out the forward momentum of your body thus would find yourself in an uncontrollable braking situation. It is the reason that you need BOTH feet down in front of you when you are braking one foot on the brake and one foot either on the floor or on the clutch. The reason you feel no forward push is because you usually don't apply the brake hard enough to feel it. When you nail the brake you will be thrown forward unless there is something there to stop you....your other foot for instance. Driving school 101.
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:42 PM   #86
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There was a well known lawsuit (to lawyers in my area anyway) filed against American Motors back in 1991. The kid was resting one of his feet out of the CJ-7 on the sidestep as he was driving down the highway. He was sideswiped. His injuries likely would have been minor (if any at all) if he had kept his feet in the Jeep, but he ended up being severely injured.

The guy filed suit and the premise of the case was that the Jeep was inherently dangerous because of (1) lack of a protective shield for the step, (2) presence of removable passenger and driver doors, (3) inability of the driver to adjust the driver's seat due to the lack of such adjustment, (4) location of the step near the driver position, (5) inadequate passenger compartment floor and dash insulation, and (6) failure to warn the operator to keep all body parts inside the passenger compartments. The lawsuit ultimately failed when the Court ruled that hanging one's foot outside of the passenger compartment was an open and obvious danger and the guy knew or should have known not to do that. In short, common sense tells one to keep their feet inside the passenger compartment when driving down the highway.

Now, that's not to say that I think someone shouldn't hang their feet out. It's none of my business and certainly no more dangerous than riding a motorcycle. Just be ready to accept the possibility of and responsibility for injury.
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:50 PM   #87
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If you know the physics then I am surprised that you didn't pick up on the sum of forces at an angle. The obtuse angle formed by your left foot on the peg being that far away from your right foot on the brake you would not be able to cancel out the forward momentum of your body thus would find yourself in an uncontrollable braking situation. It is the reason that you need BOTH feet down in front of you when you are braking one foot on the brake and one foot either on the floor or on the clutch. The reason you feel no forward push is because you usually don't apply the brake hard enough to feel it. When you nail the brake you will be thrown forward unless there is something there to stop you....your other foot for instance. Driving school 101.
If we are agreeing that I am already "nailing the brake down" then how can I, in any way, apply even more pressure from my body moving forward? Also consider that your hamstrings can create enough reverse accelration in your leg to pull your foot back faster than your body would be moving foward since the vehicle is moving at a speed only slightly slower than the body at this point you could no dout pull your foot back to release the brake. Also, while the angle the foot would be reduce the amount of pressure it could apply towards the body it doesnt negate it completely, some force is still applied. In order to create and equal force against the body more force would have to be applied by the left leg. I know that if I lock the brakes up I am not using my left leg's maximum for to keep my body back in place, which would mean I could possibly get close to the necessary for with my foot on the peg.
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Old 06-15-2011, 02:59 PM   #88
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If we are agreeing that I am already "nailing the brake down" then how can I, in any way, apply even more pressure from my body moving forward? Also consider that your hamstrings can create enough reverse accelration in your leg to pull your foot back faster than your body would be moving foward since the vehicle is moving at a speed only slightly slower than the body at this point you could no dout pull your foot back to release the brake. Also, while the angle the foot would be reduce the amount of pressure it could apply towards the body it doesnt negate it completely, some force is still applied.
When you are in the driver's seat, the right foot is relatively straight down on the brake. Knee bent or not, it won't matter. You nail the brake, you will be thrown forward into the brake harder. You will not be able to come off of the brake unless you have the ability to apply force 180 degrees in the opposite direction via your other foot. Trust me on this one. You will not be able to move until the vehicle comes to a complete stop which it will do in short order in that situation. I was on the highway driving with two feet being a young idiot not knowing any better. When I reached the end of the highway and the speed limit lowered instead of coming off the gas and just using the left foot on the brake (two foot driving) I put the right foot slightly on the brake pedal and applied only enough brake to slow down. My body moved forward a little and then the next thing I knew my knees were slammed into the dash and the vehicle decelerated in a very short distance.

If you cannot cancel out the forward momentum with your left foot, uncontrolled stop is exactly what will happen. It is physics.

This happened before I went to college and took engineering physics. That is why I'm so much smarter now.
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:09 PM   #89
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There was a well known lawsuit (to lawyers in my area anyway) filed against American Motors back in 1991. The kid was resting one of his feet out of the CJ-7 on the sidestep as he was driving down the highway. He was sideswiped. His injuries likely would have been minor (if any at all) if he had kept his feet in the Jeep, but he ended up being severely injured.

The guy filed suit and the premise of the case was that the Jeep was inherently dangerous because of (1) lack of a protective shield for the step, (2) presence of removable passenger and driver doors, (3) inability of the driver to adjust the driver's seat due to the lack of such adjustment, (4) location of the step near the driver position, (5) inadequate passenger compartment floor and dash insulation, and (6) failure to warn the operator to keep all body parts inside the passenger compartments. The lawsuit ultimately failed when the Court ruled that hanging one's foot outside of the passenger compartment was an open and obvious danger and the guy knew or should have known not to do that. In short, common sense tells one to keep their feet inside the passenger compartment when driving down the highway.

Now, that's not to say that I think someone shouldn't hang their feet out. It's none of my business and certainly no more dangerous than riding a motorcycle. Just be ready to accept the possibility of and responsibility for injury.
How times have changed in 20 years eh. Back then they ruled on "common sense", these days no one seems to be held responsible for their own behavior. Spill hot coffee in your lap and you can make millions. Not because YOU are the idiot, but because no one posted on the cup that coffee is hot.

If you want to stick your foot out of the vehicle, then so be it. If it is instantly removed during a collision, then don't act surprised when people call you "stumpy". (OK - that was a little much )
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:30 PM   #90
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Arizona
Posts: 158
Very Clever! I like it.

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