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Old 06-15-2011, 05:47 PM   #91
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I can't believe how long this thread about foot pegs has been going on. Fortunately for me I am vertically challenged and my feet couldn't reach the pegs if I chose to install them. I'm glad I will never be faced with this decision.

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Old 06-16-2011, 03:46 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk'n

If you know the physics then I am surprised that you didn't pick up on the sum of forces at an angle. The obtuse angle formed by your left foot on the peg being that far away from your right foot on the brake you would not be able to cancel out the forward momentum of your body thus would find yourself in an uncontrollable braking situation. It is the reason that you need BOTH feet down in front of you when you are braking one foot on the brake and one foot either on the floor or on the clutch. The reason you feel no forward push is because you usually don't apply the brake hard enough to feel it. When you nail the brake you will be thrown forward unless there is something there to stop you....your other foot for instance. Driving school 101.
Could a person with only one right leg not be able to brake properly?
When I slam on my brakes, right foot goes into the brake peddle and the left foot is flat to the floor all tense. Would that me similar to what you are talking about? Or does it need to be pushed forward? :/

Edit: I'm being serious. I always liked physics (I like science) but was never any good at it. So if my questions seem annoying, I am sorry for that.

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Old 06-16-2011, 05:25 AM   #93
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So TommyP have you done any other mods that can get as much response to this one. Or have you sold the Jeep in disgust at the thought.


I,m sure the conscience police will let you do what you want to your own jeep..
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:23 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by jk'n

When you are in the driver's seat, the right foot is relatively straight down on the brake. Knee bent or not, it won't matter. You nail the brake, you will be thrown forward into the brake harder. You will not be able to come off of the brake unless you have the ability to apply force 180 degrees in the opposite direction via your other foot. Trust me on this one. You will not be able to move until the vehicle comes to a complete stop which it will do in short order in that situation. I was on the highway driving with two feet being a young idiot not knowing any better. When I reached the end of the highway and the speed limit lowered instead of coming off the gas and just using the left foot on the brake (two foot driving) I put the right foot slightly on the brake pedal and applied only enough brake to slow down. My body moved forward a little and then the next thing I knew my knees were slammed into the dash and the vehicle decelerated in a very short distance.

If you cannot cancel out the forward momentum with your left foot, uncontrolled stop is exactly what will happen. It is physics.

This happened before I went to college and took engineering physics. That is why I'm so much smarter now.
Just wondering how they rig a left legged amputee to overcome this? Not being smart ass, do they take this into consideration?
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:11 AM   #95
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Could a person with only one right leg not be able to brake properly?
When I slam on my brakes, right foot goes into the brake peddle and the left foot is flat to the floor all tense. Would that me similar to what you are talking about? Or does it need to be pushed forward? :/

Edit: I'm being serious. I always liked physics (I like science) but was never any good at it. So if my questions seem annoying, I am sorry for that.
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Just wondering how they rig a left legged amputee to overcome this? Not being smart ass, do they take this into consideration?
These types of questions are never annoying or considered smart ass inquiries when meant in a serious way to persons who are truly interested in the study of how things work. I would say to a person who is a left leg amputee this would be a real concern. After all if they had multiple instances of uncontrolled stop, they would be a nuisance on the road. A danger to themselves and others. The only solutions that I can think of would be to use hand controls so that the foot on the floor could be used to support the body from being thrown forward or some type of restraining system that doesn't have the self adjustment capability that a regular seat-belt has.

Knowing about how safe our government tries to keep our highways I would think that they have come up with systems for amputees that make it safe to drive including in this situation. Since driving is mostly covered by state law and enforced by the registry of motor vehicles perhaps it may be different state to state. There must be best practices that companies use though for fear of law suites as a result of individuals having accidents due to a modification for folks who are challenged in one way or another. In the realm of liability, insurance companies I would think are figured into the mix somehow.


<soapbox>
If anybody follows a lot of my posts, they will know that the sum total of them that have to do with safety are always on looking for ways to be safe while driving. On a public way I am not a risk taker and encourage others not to take risks either. I am of the belief that safety equipment is meant to keep us safe and tampering with it to make it less effective when a jeep (or any other vehicle) is modified with an aim for off road use but it is a daily driver or is used on road, the options have to be weighed very carefully. I feel that if everybody did this, our roads would be a lot safer. I continually read posts where folks dismiss safety for some cosmetic effect or some better off road capability but seem to negate what effect that the modification may have with respect to their own safety or to others either in their own vehicle or other vehicles. If a company puts a disclaimer that a modification is for off road use only for my own modifications, unless I trailer the jeep to the trail, I won't be installing it. Regarding this thread, the notion that I need to have a foot peg that would be a dangerous practice for myself and others around me it is a no go. I wouldn't do it. This includes making such a modification to a motorcycle. I have a motorcycle license and because I value my own skin I wouldn't put pegs on the roll bar because it puts my feet too far from the controls. I wouldn't do it because of the fear of consequences for myself or my potential passenger. That is just me. I don't want to be the cause of someone suffering or dieing because of my being too risky. On a motorcycle it is less likely to cause injury to others in cars or trucks so it is more of a personal issue. I still will modify with thinking on the side of safety.
</soapbox>


I'm a thinking person and thus the size of my posts. Most people who blow this type of stuff off would blitz over this type of post and not even get this far. This post wasn't intended for you.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:16 AM   #96
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People with disabilities overcome there limitations but still can't do what others with none can. Sort of like a three legged dog. After they get used to their lose they get around pretty good but if a 4 legged dog hurts one foot they limp around all day.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:21 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by jk'n View Post
When you are in the driver's seat, the right foot is relatively straight down on the brake. Knee bent or not, it won't matter. You nail the brake, you will be thrown forward into the brake harder. You will not be able to come off of the brake unless you have the ability to apply force 180 degrees in the opposite direction via your other foot. Trust me on this one. You will not be able to move until the vehicle comes to a complete stop which it will do in short order in that situation. I was on the highway driving with two feet being a young idiot not knowing any better. When I reached the end of the highway and the speed limit lowered instead of coming off the gas and just using the left foot on the brake (two foot driving) I put the right foot slightly on the brake pedal and applied only enough brake to slow down. My body moved forward a little and then the next thing I knew my knees were slammed into the dash and the vehicle decelerated in a very short distance.

If you cannot cancel out the forward momentum with your left foot, uncontrolled stop is exactly what will happen. It is physics.

This happened before I went to college and took engineering physics. That is why I'm so much smarter now.
Where was your left foot while the right one was on the brake? So because you didn't know how to drive this is factual physics? You aren't the only one with an engineering degree in this discussion my friend. I'll be happy to find a clear road over the next couple days to test out my theory but I am quite sure that my leg can retract my foot from the brake pedal without coming to a complete stop and not having my left foot planted in the footwell. Not only that do you not wear a seatbelt, Mr. Safety? If I slam on the brakes mine happily holds me in place.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:32 AM   #98
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One thing about human nature, we will be damned before we let people tell us what we can do even if it is bad for us. I know people that refused to go to certain restaurants when the smoking laws took place. It didn't matter that their habit raised health issue of others, I be damned if they tell me I can't smoke. To me, if it can only harm yourself then go for it but when it could harm others, even if the risk is small, then people should voice their opinion on it and it has nothing to do with conscience police.
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Old 06-16-2011, 08:41 AM   #99
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Where was your left foot while the right one was on the brake? So because you didn't know how to drive this is factual physics? You aren't the only one with an engineering degree in this discussion my friend. I'll be happy to find a clear road over the next couple days to test out my theory but I am quite sure that my leg can retract my foot from the brake pedal without coming to a complete stop and not having my left foot planted in the footwell. Not only that do you not wear a seatbelt, Mr. Safety? If I slam on the brakes mine happily holds me in place.
When I did this as a youngster, I had my left foot on the brake (two foot driving) my right foot came off of the gas and was on the edge of the brake pedal (automatic transmission) I had a seat belt on. It didn't restrain me enough. I didn't cause an accident because thankfully there was nobody behind me. I tried to come up off of the brake but once it started I couldn't lift my legs as the momentum was too great to overcome. I was so impressed by it that I can remember it almost like it was yesterday. As a physics problem, I would say that to avoid this situation there would have to be a way to develop enough force 180 degrees in the opposite direction from your momentum to cancel your forward movement out and prevent uncontrolled braking. The further your leg is off to the side, the less likely that is to happen. As the angle of the leg increases away from your torso, the force vector at 180 degrees will decrease. At some point, the force created by your left leg off to the side will not be enough to overcome your inertia to hold you back from flying forward. This is of course theory based on a real experience. The experience was real....uncontrolled braking is real. The application to the foot peg is theory.

Overall I think the practice of using the foot peg, uncontrolled braking or no, is not a safe practice and I don't recommend it. I wouldn't use it myself.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:33 AM   #100
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One thing about human nature, we will be damned before we let people tell us what we can do even if it is bad for us. I know people that refused to go to certain restaurants when the smoking laws took place. It didn't matter that their habit raised health issue of others, I be damned if they tell me I can't smoke. To me, if it can only harm yourself then go for it but when it could harm others, even if the risk is small, then people should voice their opinion on it and it has nothing to do with conscience police.
rics,

I think we totally agree.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:48 AM   #101
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Where was your left foot while the right one was on the brake? So because you didn't know how to drive this is factual physics? You aren't the only one with an engineering degree in this discussion my friend. I'll be happy to find a clear road over the next couple days to test out my theory but I am quite sure that my leg can retract my foot from the brake pedal without coming to a complete stop and not having my left foot planted in the footwell. Not only that do you not wear a seatbelt, Mr. Safety? If I slam on the brakes mine happily holds me in place.
BTW, the way you worded this post, it could be taken as a condescending comment. You may have an engineering degree. I completed three years in engineering and decided I didn't want to complete it even though all of my semesters were on the dean's list. My final cumulative average was 3.98. I would say that I put in a hell of an effort but that doesn't make me a know it all. I ended up with a Bachelor of Science degree. It doesn't mean my education is any less credible than yours. When applying it to a physics problem, even in theory, the laws of physics won't change for either of us. I think my conclusions have validity. You may not be able to reproduce the uncontrolled braking effect, that doesn't mean that it isn't a possibility, just that circumstances are not right to reproduce it. For instance your seat belt may act sooner and your legs may develop enough retraction to pull away from the brake. As a youth I was strong but couldn't do it. That is why it made such a big impression. So in the end we may agree to disagree. I hope we can do it as gentlemen. I like this discussion. I hope we don't turn it into something ugly. That should be easy....for most.
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Old 06-16-2011, 09:56 AM   #102
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BTW, the way you worded this post, it could be taken as a condescending comment. You may have an engineering degree. I completed three years in engineering and decided I didn't want to complete it even though all of my semesters were on the dean's list. My final cumulative average was 3.98. I would say that I put in a hell of an effort but that doesn't make me a know it all. I ended up with a Bachelor of Science degree. It doesn't mean my education is any less credible than yours. When applying it to a physics problem, even in theory, the laws of physics won't change for either of us. I think my conclusions have validity. You may not be able to reproduce the uncontrolled braking effect, that doesn't mean that it isn't a possibility, just that circumstances are not right to reproduce it. For instance your seat belt may act sooner and your legs may develop enough retraction to pull away from the brake. As a youth I was strong but couldn't do it. That is why it made such a big impression. So in the end we may agree to disagree. I hope we can do it as gentlemen. I like this discussion. I hope we don't turn it into something ugly. That should be easy....for most.
The reason I stated that was because you threw out that you took engineering physics.

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This happened before I went to college and took engineering physics. That is why I'm so much smarter now.
It wasn't meant to be something ugly just a point that you weren't the only educated person in the discussion. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar no bad blood here.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:09 AM   #103
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The reason I stated that was because you threw out that you took engineering physics.



It wasn't meant to be something ugly just a point that you weren't the only educated person in the discussion. You sir are a gentleman and a scholar no bad blood here.
Thanks for that. I love a good science discussion. We're good.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:52 AM   #104
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Now that you two have made up, am I still a lazy turd 'cause I drive an auto?
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:57 AM   #105
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Now that you two have made up, am I still a lazy turd 'cause I drive an auto?
Yup

Its all preference, traffic sucks sometimes with the manual, my next car (in addition to the Jeep) will be an Auto but that's because its all the TTS comes with
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:03 AM   #106
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Yup

Its all preference, traffic sucks sometimes with the manual, my next car (in addition to the Jeep) will be an Auto but that's because its all the TTS comes with
Crap - back to the cold dark basement for me I guess. Does it count that I actually DO have a manual....in the glovebox?
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Old 06-16-2011, 11:51 AM   #107
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Now that you two have made up, am I still a lazy turd 'cause I drive an auto?
In sarcasm....you are

In reality....no, a lot of people just prefer it. It is what makes commerce go....getting what you want based on your preferences.
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Old 06-16-2011, 04:18 PM   #108
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Thanks for explaining what I asked jk'n. I love reading these things since they make me stop and think about real world situations.
Like I remember how in years earlier vehicles did not have abs and it wad adviced to pump the brakes when coming up to a sudden stop (to avoid insane skidding). If a person was only using one foot and had to slam on their brakes... They might not be able to pump the brake enough to stop in a safe manner. Yeah?
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Old 06-16-2011, 06:50 PM   #109
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^^ If you mean one foot pumping the brake with the other on the floor, then yes that could be done. Before ABS or vehicles without ABS require pumping the brakes so that a skid with the wheels locked is avoided. The tread can fill up with debris or the tire could get a flat spot, either way there is less traction than if you applied the brakes intermittently which is what ABS does only it does it so fast, you probably couldn't duplicate it with the efficiency of an ABS. The ABS in the jeep works with stability control as well. I don't know the particulars of that system but I am understanding that it helps you to keep the jeep going in the direction that you are steering it in.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:03 PM   #110
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So TommyP have you done any other mods that can get as much response to this one. Or have you sold the Jeep in disgust at the thought.


I,m sure the conscience police will let you do what you want to your own jeep..
I actually was driving the other day with the pegs, and a bird flew into my leg, his beak poked my kneecap, and i had to have my knee amputated. Sold the jeep and now drive a hover-round, with pegs. Lower leg is good, just have to deal with the missing knee. Life is a bitch. On a positive note, I sold my Jeep to the next door neighbor, however she has no arms or legs, and has to use sticks and pulleys to drive it....poor poor lady.
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:37 PM   #111
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Smile

108...wow. Wranglerforum.com is the best site on the WWW. Everyone of you guys are awesome. Great advice always, great humor ALWAYS, great pictures, great Jeeps. Love it, pegs or no pegs.

: thumb::t humb:
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Old 06-16-2011, 10:58 PM   #112
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I don't have a foot peg, however, I do rest my foot on the door hinge while driving. Like I said, I drive a manual and when I do rest my foot outside the Jeep, it is usually when I know I am going to cruise at a constant speed for a longer period of time. Whenever I come up to other cars, I always bring my foot back inside in case I have to use the clutch.

As far as your last comment... Are you just an overall rude person?
I have a manual also and do the same as above. As far as some of the comments about this you people have way to much time on your hands.
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Old 06-17-2011, 12:53 AM   #113
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I have a manual also and do the same as above. As far as some of the comments about this you people have way to much time on your hands.
We are big brained people, the thoughts just come pouring out.

I pity the fool with a little brain in this thread.

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Old 06-17-2011, 02:24 AM   #114
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Could a person with only one right leg not be able to brake properly?
How many right legs do most people have?
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Old 06-17-2011, 11:24 AM   #115
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In regards to the info about how you can't keep from pressing the pedal unless you keep a foot on the floor.

I tried the experiment. I actually put my left foot under my right leg in the seat so I would have no leverage at all. And I put my foot on the door hinge. Every time I tried, regardless of brake pressure, I didn't have a problem. Anytime I braked with enough pressure to where I think I would have a problem holding myself in the seat, my seat belt held me in place fine and I was able to lift my foot off the brake. Maybe not quite as quickly if I had more leverage, but I certainly didn't experience the full pressure, ABS inducing short stop JK'n describes.

Not that it would have stopped me anyway, but I'll be having a footpeg.

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