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Old 01-13-2012, 02:21 PM   #1
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Need New Rear DS? kbwwolf?

wolf, if you are out there, I took your advice and got the JE Reel 1350 front DS (along w/ my 4" lift), and am glad I did. Looking at it on the vehicle, it's clear that it is a superior design to the stock one and should, at least mostly, solve the exhaust issue.

Question: Do you think I need to get a rear one too? I just can't tell. There's no exhaust issue, but do I need the added strength/durability or need it for some other reason? And I have so many other things I still "need," such as:

Front Bumper: Rock Hard 4x4 Parts Part RH5005 - Full Width Front Bumper by Rock Hard 4x4

Rugged Ridge Roller Fairlead License Plate Mount: Rugged Ridge 11238.05 - Rugged Ridge Roller Fairlead License Plate Mount - Quadratec

G2 Series Rear Bumper and Tire Carrier System, JK: G2 Series Rear Bumper & Tire Carrier System, JK - G2 Series - Rear Bumpers - Bumpers

Rock Hard 4x4 Parts Evap Canister Relocation Bracket: Rock Hard 4X4 RH6005-A - Rock Hard 4x4 Parts Evap Canister Relocation Bracket for 07-12 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK - Quadratec

RANCHO® RockGEAR™ Front Differential Glide Plate: http://www.quadratec.com/products/16238_104.htm

RANCHO® RockGEAR™ Dana 44 Differential Cover: http://www.quadratec.com/products/16238_120.htm

Rock Hard 4x4 Parts Oil Pan, Transmission & Catalytic Converter Skid Plate: Rock Hard 4X4 RH6003 - Rock Hard 4x4 Parts Oil Pan, Transmission & Catalytic Converter Skid Plate for 07-12 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK - Quadratec

Rock Hard 4x4 Parts Transfer Case Skid Plate: Rock Hard 4X4 RH6004 - Rock Hard 4x4 Parts Transfer Case Skid Plate for 07-12 Jeep® Wrangler & Wrangler Unlimited JK - Quadratec

Etc ...

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Old 01-13-2012, 02:23 PM   #2
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:41 PM   #3
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:12 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by MarineHawk View Post
wolf, if you are out there, I took your advice and got the JE Reel 1350 front DS (along w/ my 4" lift), and am glad I did. Looking at it on the vehicle, it's clear that it is a superior design to the stock one and should, at least mostly, solve the exhaust issue.

Question: Do you think I need to get a rear one too? I just can't tell. There's no exhaust issue, but do I need the added strength/durability or need it for some other reason?
Man, you're building a beast. Cool.

I'll tell you what Steve, the engineer at FT, and guys at several other lift companies told me when I was gathering info to decide on a lift. With your Jeep's lift height, you MIGHT need a new rear ds eventually, but because of the JKU's longer wheelbase (as opposed to the JK), it's not considered a necessity.

Those recommendations were based on the lifts I was looking at then...the 3" Full Traction and the 3.5" AEV.

That's about the best I could drag out of them. Ultimately, I decided to go with just the front ds...for now. I still have the rear on my list of summer acquisitions, but may end up bumping it again when it comes time to buy.

When I was installing my lift, it was visibly apparent that the new front ds was a necessity...especially with the exhaust pipe issue right there staring me in the face. The rear, honestly, looked fine to me after everything else was installed. I was using a lift at a friend's auto shop, and he thought everything looked okay with the rear, as well. He built his own TJ from the ground up, essentially, but admitted that the TJ and JK are very different animals.

I think to some degree it depends on where and how you wheel it. Obviously, If you're slamming over rocks and ditches with the swaybars disco'd, you're seeing a helluva lot more articulation in your suspension, which will add stress to the driveshafts. On the other hand, if most of your wheeling is mud and fire roads and the like, your rear ds might last a long time.

I wish I didn't have to pussyfoot around it like this, but I have yet to receive a definitive answer one way or the other, despite scouring several Jeep forums.

Usually, for folks with your size lift or greater, I advise people to buy the rear ds, as well. I'd rather give that advice and have someone buy it, needlessly or not, than tell em "no worries, man" and have their ds seize on em 6 months later.

Kind've a choice between the lesser of two evils. On JKF, I've read numerous threads where guys will say, "Just run it till you see a stripe of grease coating your undercarriage, then buy a new one."

I ain't built that way.

I can say this: eventually I'm gonna buy a new rear ds myself, if only for the peace of mind that comes with KNOWING I'm not gonna have a problem there (or that, if I do, I at least did everything I could to prevent it initially).

In your instance I'd say, get the new ds, but don't rush right out and do it today. I really think you've got plenty of time to buy some of the other stuff you listed above, and even let your finances recuperate a bit, before you address the issue.

Sorry for the convoluted explanation. I wish I could just give you a definitive yes or no.

Apparently, though, it isn't that simple.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by MarineHawk View Post
wolf, if you are out there, I took your advice and got the JE Reel 1350 front DS (along w/ my 4" lift), and am glad I did. Looking at it on the vehicle, it's clear that it is a superior design to the stock one and should, at least mostly, solve the exhaust issue.
Yeah, the rear will be same. As stated in my post above, though, there didn't seem to be the same immediate need as with the front...at least as far as I could see.

Still, that superior design and strength is one of the reasons why I'll eventually replace the rear on mine.

Like you, however, I still got stuff to buy...

Gears
Winch
Skids
OR-FAB tire carrier

Sheesh!

Shoulda bought a used Yugo, or something...
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:25 PM   #6
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Shoulda bought a used Yugo, or something...


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Old 01-13-2012, 04:03 PM   #7
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Thanks wolf! That's exactly the kind of advice I was hoping for. I aappreciate you taking the time to respond so thoughtfully. I'll focus on other types of goodies for the next six months or so and go from there.

In the past, I've done what were labelled "Blue #2" trails at Paragon (RIP) and Rausch Creek, PA and similar stuff in various NFs in Colo. And only a few times a year. And I was careful about not trying to break anything. (For me, a good BTM technique, and going slow, seems to help with that). So that's the likely extent of my wheeling. I'd rather have something that's overdesigned (rather than underdesigned) for that type of work, but I'm not going to be doing the really crazy stuff. I'll get an old 6x6 Pinzgauer or an old Unimog if I want to beat a vehicle up. Would have to get that passed the wife first though.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:03 PM   #8
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Thanks wolf! That's exactly the kind of advice I was hoping for. I aappreciate you taking the time to respond so thoughtfully. I'll focus on other types of goodies for the next six months or so and go from there.

In the past, I've done what were labelled "Blue #2" trails at Paragon (RIP) and Rausch Creek, PA and similar stuff in various NFs in Colo. And only a few times a year. And I was careful about not trying to break anything. (For me, a good BTM technique, and going slow, seems to help with that). So that's the likely extent of my wheeling. I'd rather have something that's overdesigned (rather than underdesigned) for that type of work, but I'm not going to be doing the really crazy stuff. I'll get an old 6x6 Pinzgauer or an old Unimog if I want to beat a vehicle up. Would have to get that passed the wife first though.
Lol...good luck getting THAT past the wife, especially after all you're spending on your Jeep.

Sounds to me like you're one of those who may never need the beefier rear ds. I'm the same way. Beat up enough toys hauling ass when I was younger.

I'm still gonna replace mine eventually, though, for the reasons I listed above. Overdesigned is good.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:51 PM   #9
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hijack: Hey Wolf, what's the status of your soft top?
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:10 PM   #10
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Lol...good luck getting THAT past the wife, especially after all you're spending on your Jeep.

Sounds to me like you're one of those who may never need the beefier rear ds. I'm the same way. Beat up enough toys hauling ass when I was younger.

I'm still gonna replace mine eventually, though, for the reasons I listed above. Overdesigned is good.
My wife and I don't keep close tabs on what the other spends money on. We're both fairly responsible, trusting, and pack a lot away in the 401Ks and "defined benefit plan" they imposed on us where I work. I pay for the house, the kids' school, most of the big-ticket items, etc.... She pays utilities and groceries. (I make more than her). And we both act reasonably, but don't question what we each spend our money on. I find it takes a lot of the tension out of finances. Still, if I showed up with something like these, I might be in trouble:







On the 6x6 Pinzgauers, you can lock any or all of the three axles. I once drove one up and down a loose construction-site 9 foot pile of dirt with ease, and don't know many vehicles that can do that. It has inverted leaf springs on the rear so that, when one axle is pushced up one one side, the other axle is pushed down on the same side.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:00 PM   #11
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My wife and I don't keep close tabs on what the other spends money on. We're both fairly responsible, trusting, and pack a lot away in the 401Ks and "defined benefit plan" they imposed on us where I work. I pay for the house, the kids' school, most of the big-ticket items, etc.... She pays utilities and groceries. (I make more than her). And we both act reasonably, but don't question what we each spend our money on. I find it takes a lot of the tension out of finances. Still, if I showed up with something like these, I might be in trouble:
Lol..."Responsible" and "trusting" being the operative words. I had no idea what a Pinzgauer was when I read your earlier post, so I checked it out here:

Swiss Army Vehicles - PINZGAUER Technical Specifications

That thing's a beast! Bet it's a blast to drive, though...
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:08 PM   #12
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hijack: Hey Wolf, what's the status of your soft top?
You're not hijacking...we're just bs'ing at this point.

I got the top yesterday, laid it all out and inspected everything. Extremely well-built. And very ingenious, what with the interlocking flexible plastic inserts, etc...

However, it's gonna be a little while before I can put it on. First off, it's supposed to be -1ºF here tonight, and pretty much in the single digits and teens till next week. And I gotta shoot the Packers / Giants game at Lambeau on Sunday.

I need it to warm up a bit to install...my garage is very well insulated, but still gets into the low 50's when it's as cold as it is now outside. I'm thinking of buying one of those sealed oil heaters, so when it gets back to a reasonable temp next week I can heat up the garage and put the thing on. Tim said to install it in 60º or better, then leave it on for 2-3 days (no problems there) so it "learns" it's shape.

Soon as I get it on, I'll take some pics and post em.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:47 PM   #13
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Why relocate your evap cannister if it already has a skid plate?
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:54 PM   #14
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Why relocate your evap cannister if it already has a skid plate?
Wow, eagle eye. Took me a few minutes to track that one down.

Good question.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:09 PM   #15
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Lol..."Responsible" and "trusting" being the operative words. I had no idea what a Pinzgauer was when I read your earlier post, so I checked it out here:

Swiss Army Vehicles - PINZGAUER Technical Specifications

That thing's a beast! Bet it's a blast to drive, though...
Yeah, with the 90 HP engine, they barely will get up to 60 mph on the highway, but in low range with all three axles and six wheels locked, they almost have the traction of a halftrack. Their wheel articulation is not as good as some extremely-modified Jeeps, but with the six tires all being pushed into the terrain, they can do some amazing things fiaruly easy, and reportedly are pretty difficult to tip over. And I've seen some built-out Unimogs go places I almost didn't think was possible with ease, e.g., up past Como Lake: Lake Como Road: Hikers' lament, Jeepers' delight : OutThereColorado.com=
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:45 AM   #16
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Note: I must condition my praise of the Swiss Pinzgauer by acknowledging that, for years, while the Swiss were dipping fondue, Americans were using Jeeps to kick Nazi/Commie butt.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:22 AM   #17
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Why relocate your evap cannister if it already has a skid plate?
I don't know. Does the skid plate eleminate any benefit from relocating it? IF so, I would drop the relocation. Thanks for noticing that.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:29 AM   #18
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Note: I must condition my praise of the Swiss Pinzgauer by acknowledging that, for years, while the Swiss were dipping fondue, Americans were using Jeeps to kick Nazi/Commie butt.
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:03 PM   #19
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Does replacing the front DS completely solve the 2012 exhaust issue with, say, a 3.5" lift? Do you still need some sort of exhaust kit along with it? I would much rather spend the money on a DS and not mess with any pipes.
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Old 01-14-2012, 12:09 PM   #20
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Does replacing the front DS completely solve the 2012 exhaust issue with, say, a 3.5" lift? Do you still need some sort of exhaust kit along with it? I would much rather spend the money on a DS and not mess with any pipes.
It solved the issue on mine, with a 3" lift. But it's not the size of the lift so much as the length of the replacement shocks. Anything 27.5" (which is what my Bilstein 5100's are) or longer will cause the stock ds and exhaust crossover to hit when the swaybars are disconnected and the shocks are fully extended.

So, regardless of your lift size, if your shocks are 27.5", the replacement ds will fix the exhaust issue. Once you get everything installed, it'll look REALLY close. And you'll probably have to remove the heat shield on your exhaust...but that's no problem, since there's no boot on the aftermarket ds to worry about, like there is on the stocker.

Some photos:

Old, fat ds on left.
Click image for larger version

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Like I said, clearance is tight. This pic was taken with swaybars disco'd, shocks at full extension, exhaust heat shield removed.
Click image for larger version

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Old 01-14-2012, 12:53 PM   #21
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Wow that is close. I'll pay the 500 for the DS first instead of 350ish for a y pipe and then 500 for a DS later.
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:23 PM   #22
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Wow that is close. I'll pay the 500 for the DS first instead of 350ish for a y pipe and then 500 for a DS later.
Forgot to mention...while the shocks are the determining factor for your stock ds / exhaust issues, a LIFT of your height creates too much of an angle for the stock ds to handle, anyway. So, even without the exhaust problem, yours woulda crapped out sooner or later, anyway.
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Old 01-14-2012, 01:30 PM   #23
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Sure but the initial problem I think would be the exhaust. And if I have to replace the DS anyway, it's better to do it first and solve both problems. Hopefully I won't need a y pipe after a new DS.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:33 PM   #24
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Sure but the initial problem I think would be the exhaust. And if I have to replace the DS anyway, it's better to do it first and solve both problems. Hopefully I won't need a y pipe after a new DS.
Only reason that I could see that happening is if your shocks are longer than the Bilstein 5100's.
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Old 01-14-2012, 04:32 PM   #25
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Forgot to mention...while the shocks are the determining factor for your stock ds / exhaust issues, a LIFT of your height creates too much of an angle for the stock ds to handle, anyway. So, even without the exhaust problem, yours woulda crapped out sooner or later, anyway.
My hats off to you I replaced mine with Coast Drive Line set any suggestions on axles?? Might as well cover all the important things
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:44 PM   #26
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My hats off to you I replaced mine with Coast Drive Line set any suggestions on axles?? Might as well cover all the important things
Haven't done anything to my front axle yet, though I'm still kinda tossing around the idea of a sleeve and gusset job. Maybe. In a few months. After I do some other stuff.

If you're not running 35's or larger it's probably not worth messing with, IMO.

Rear should be fine.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:04 PM   #27
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Haven't done anything to my front axle yet, though I'm still kinda tossing around the idea of a sleeve and gusset job. Maybe. In a few months. After I do some other stuff.

If you're not running 35's or larger it's probably not worth messing with, IMO.

Rear should be fine.
I am running 35's been looking at going back to Alloy I know things have changed there but factory 10 is not much better

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