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Old 02-13-2012, 12:17 AM   #1
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Need some guru questions answered "back spacing"

Hi, my names Mike, Im just about to finish signing papers on a black 2012 4dr sport auto, I have a couple questions. Yes i did do a search prior, im not new to the forum rule of law, im actually on a couple. Im trading in my 08 srt8 jeep for the new wrangler.

OK so my questions are:

1. i already have a 4 inch lift lined up, and am aware of the front driveshaft CV boot issue that im gonna have to address. What do you guys recommend for driveshafts.

2. im planning on doing 18x10 moto metal mo961 rims, with 33 inch nitto trail grappelers. My question is what kind of backspacing should i be considering? i read up 4.5 but i just wanted to confirm because i dont want these suckers to stick out that far.

3. how wide should i go tire wise? I remember reading 12.5 is a good width but i dont want to go to wide..

4. im aware of the whole long arm kits and what they do, but honestly for the most part other then some mud sessions this jeep and i hate to say it, will be a pavement queen "for the time being". so what coil kit do you guys reccomend?

5. other then the typical valve train tick and the driveshaft issues, is there anything else i should know about the 2012's?

THANKS in advance guys, appreciate any help.

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Old 02-13-2012, 12:35 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMikeVP View Post
Hi, my names Mike, Im just about to finish signing papers on a black 2012 4dr sport auto, I have a couple questions. Yes i did do a search prior, im not new to the forum rule of law, im actually on a couple. Im trading in my 08 srt8 jeep for the new wrangler.

OK so my questions are:

1. i already have a 4 inch lift lined up, and am aware of the front driveshaft CV boot issue that im gonna have to address. What do you guys recommend for driveshafts.

Tom Woods, love mine!

2. im planning on doing 18x10 moto metal mo961 rims, with 33 inch nitto trail grappelers. My question is what kind of backspacing should i be considering? i read up 4.5 but i just wanted to confirm because i dont want these suckers to stick out that far.

33" tires on 18's aren't very functional off road, just had to say it. Plus 18 inch tires are waaaaay more expensive than the smaller tire sizes. I have 35's on 18's & am thinking there is way to much wheel & not enough tire. 4.5 BS will be good. You wont have to run spacers or mess with steering stops.

3. how wide should i go tire wise? I remember reading 12.5 is a good width but i dont want to go to wide..

If you're not offroading much, so it sounds, get whatever width you think looks best to you. 33x12.5's are very common/popular.

4. im aware of the whole long arm kits and what they do, but honestly for the most part other then some mud sessions this jeep and i hate to say it, will be a pavement queen "for the time being". so what coil kit do you guys reccomend?

Teraflex! Love mine

5. other then the typical valve train tick and the driveshaft issues, is there anything else i should know about the 2012's?

Mine's an 07, don't know??

THANKS in advance guys, appreciate any help.

Welcome to the "Best" Forum on the WWW.

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Old 02-13-2012, 01:16 AM   #3
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Check out this link to do comparison of tire/wheel combos.

Great Tool for evaluating Tire/Wheel sizes (Backspace and Offset)
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:48 AM   #4
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Pavement queen no problem
But 4" with 33's?

Welcome btw

Get the jeep and drive it for a while.
Wrangler stock is very capable.
4" is not recommended to run 33's
Look into a BB/LK or a smaller coil lift and you won't need to worry about all that other stuff.
Ya got all kinds of money to throw around, knock your self out-in that case-do flat fenders/ regear and throw on some 37's

Ken ~
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:02 AM   #5
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Just going to be honest here.

A 4" lift and running 33s is going to look pretty ridiculous. You can run a 33" tire at stock ride height.

Those 18x10s are going to weigh a ton and hit your performance pretty hard. I would urge you to look into a smaller diameter rim. Since you obviously like the big wheel look, I'm not going to suggest 15s, which I normally would. But at least look into something in the 16x8.5 or 17x9 range. Not to mention, the larger the rim diameter, the large the vacuum hose that is installed to your wallet.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:03 PM   #6
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i appreciate the info. anyone know of any good threads with pics? i just want a specific deep dish look, and i feel like the 9" 's wont give that to me, so u guys think i should do 35's if im not miss reading?
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:20 PM   #7
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i appreciate the info. anyone know of any good threads with pics? i just want a specific deep dish look, and i feel like the 9" 's wont give that to me, so u guys think i should do 35's if im not miss reading?
You got a lotta work to do, my man.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMikeVP
i appreciate the info. anyone know of any good threads with pics? i just want a specific deep dish look, and i feel like the 9" 's wont give that to me, so u guys think i should do 35's if im not miss reading?
No, I think you should do a smaller lift and 33s. If you insist on 35s, then do that but with something like a 2.5" Teraflex lift or Rock Krawler lift. Just be prepared for the performance hit and monetary hit that 35s bring to the table. Especially when done correctly.

As for pics, there are several threads out there with pics. Many wheels provide a "deep dish"-ish look.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:41 PM   #9
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With a 10" wheel you can actually get by with a 5" backspacing. If you were getting a 8" wide wheel you would need 4.5" but since a tire doesn't hang over a 10" wheel as much, you don't need as much bs with 10" wide wheels.

The number that is always the same is the offset. Offset should be the same with every wheel but backspace is determined by the width of the wheel and the size of the tire.. Minimum offset (for 12.5" wide tire) for a Jeep is 0 offset with -19 being optimum but a larger negative offset can be run but the tire will be past the fender.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:43 PM   #10
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Quick breakdown: any lift over 2.5" and your wheels need addressing. 4.5" backspacing will clear your taller lift and give you a deep dish look and will stick out about an inch past your flares. If you don't want it to stick out, get a larger number backspacing (5-6 inch) and stick with a smaller lift. Larger lifts require less backspacing, which means more stick out, its unavoidable.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:46 PM   #11
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Wolf: this was me a month our so ago, right?
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:54 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyman
Quick breakdown: any lift over 2.5" and your wheels need addressing. 4.5" backspacing will clear your taller lift and give you a deep dish look and will stick out about an inch past your flares. If you don't want it to stick out, get a larger number backspacing (5-6 inch) and stick with a smaller lift. Larger lifts require less backspacing, which means more stick out, its unavoidable.
Bigger/wider tires and you need to address backspacing.
Some lifts--like my TF-- require wheels with less BS or wheel spacers.
Ruining 33's doesn't require a lift at all...... Make sense?
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:01 PM   #13
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You got a lotta work to do, my man.
there's an understatement! but that's half the fun!
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:22 PM   #14
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Wolf: this was me a month our so ago, right?
Yes sir.

However, there are flaws in your advice below. No biggie...you're on the right path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyman View Post
Quick breakdown: any lift over 2.5" and your wheels need addressing. 4.5" backspacing will clear your taller lift and give you a deep dish look and will stick out about an inch past your flares. If you don't want it to stick out, get a larger number backspacing (5-6 inch) and stick with a smaller lift. Larger lifts require less backspacing, which means more stick out, its unavoidable.
Generally, you don't want 5-6" bs. Your stock wheels are 6.25", which is horrendous. Like Rick said, you can ease up on the bs A LITTLE with wider wheels, but generally should look at 4.5" or less.

A larger lift does not require less backspacing. If you buy wheels with, say, 4" bs, you can run them with a 2" BB, or a 6" lift.

Smaller bs #'s will make your tires stick out farther from your Jeep, giving it a wider stance. However, you don't wanna go too far, since tires that stick out too far put stress on your bearings, and will paint the sides of your Jeep with roadcrap every time the road is wet.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:25 PM   #15
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Here's an equation that'll allow you to convert offset to backspace:

Take offset, divide by 25.4, then add the overall rim width (rim width +1) divided by 2

so: 16x8 with -27 mm offset


-27mm / 25.4 = -1.06" + (((8"+1")/2)= 4.5") = 3.43" BS


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Old 02-13-2012, 08:28 PM   #16
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And here's one of the best offset/backspace diagrams I've found:

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Old 02-13-2012, 08:31 PM   #17
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there's an understatement! but that's half the fun!
Very true.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:49 PM   #18
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The number that is always the same is the offset. Offset should be the same with every wheel but backspace is determined by the width of the wheel and the size of the tire.. Minimum offset (for 12.5" wide tire) for a Jeep is 0 offset with -19 being optimum but a larger negative offset can be run but the tire will be past the fender.
Sounds like you are the offset king. In your opinion, would -27 be too much offset for a 15x8 inch wheel & 35x12.5 tires. On a JK of course.
Like you say, you don't want it to rub OR stick out past the fenders any more than it needs to OR put more leverage on the bearings than necessary.

Thanks
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Old 02-13-2012, 09:49 PM   #19
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Sounds like you are the offset king. In your opinion, would -27 be too much offset for a 15x8 inch wheel & 35x12.5 tires. On a JK of course.
Like you say, you don't want it to rub OR stick out past the fenders any more than it needs to OR put more leverage on the bearings than necessary.

Thanks
Thats a close call. It's what would be called a 3.5" bs plus. The MB's that so many are going to are 3.75" bs so you will be out 1/4" wider stance then those. many of the people running 20" wheels are running even wider stance in some cases. The only thing that will be a issue is stress on bearings and ball joints but not that bad when compared to the MB's. But it isn't no worse then people running 9" wheels with 4" bs or 10" with 4.5"bs. The stance will be the same for each.
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Old 02-13-2012, 10:31 PM   #20
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Sounds like you are the offset king. In your opinion, would -27 be too much offset for a 15x8 inch wheel & 35x12.5 tires. On a JK of course.
Like you say, you don't want it to rub OR stick out past the fenders any more than it needs to OR put more leverage on the bearings than necessary.

Thanks
FWIW, the 15" Level 8 Trackers that I was looking at had -30 offset, which translates to 3.32" backspace. I went as far as to order them from DTD. But I decided against them simply because I believe the wheel would stick out too far. From a looks standpoint, it just wasn't something I thought I would be happy with in the long run. From a mechanical/performance standpoint, having that much offset could cause premature wear on the wheel bearings as well as the ball joints. So, I called DTD up and had my order changed.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:03 AM   #21
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tons of fantastic info, i appreciate every bit of it!! looks like im gonna get along with you jeep guys hahahaha!

A girl i know has a 2011 unlimited sport with 35 inch mud grappelers, ive also driven similiar, the loss in performance doesnt really bother me, not to mention im sure the extra 83 horse will help her move along just fine. What i ment by pavement queen was the 50 miles to and from work i drive every day. i live in the country up here in massachusetts, TONS OF TRAILS "but not to out of my league LOL" I realize im a newb. Looks like ill be doing the 35's after all.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:13 AM   #22
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Here's an equation that'll allow you to convert offset to backspace:

Take offset, divide by 25.4, then add the overall rim width (rim width +1) divided by 2

so: 16x8 with -27 mm offset

-27mm / 25.4 = -1.06" + (((8"+1")/2)= 4.5") = 3.43" BS
3.44 but who cares about .01 anyway
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:16 AM   #23
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3.44 but who cares about .01 anyway
My god, dude, that's like arguing over the value of pi.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:21 AM   #24
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Thats a close call. It's what would be called a 3.5" bs plus. The MB's that so many are going to are 3.75" bs so you will be out 1/4" wider stance then those. many of the people running 20" wheels are running even wider stance in some cases. The only thing that will be a issue is stress on bearings and ball joints but not that bad when compared to the MB's. But it isn't no worse then people running 9" wheels with 4" bs or 10" with 4.5"bs. The stance will be the same for each.
Thanks for the info sir. Sucks when you find a wheel you like & it doesn't come in a 4-4.5 bs.

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FWIW, the 15" Level 8 Trackers that I was looking at had -30 offset, which translates to 3.32" backspace. I went as far as to order them from DTD. But I decided against them simply because I believe the wheel would stick out too far. From a looks standpoint, it just wasn't something I thought I would be happy with in the long run. From a mechanical/performance standpoint, having that much offset could cause premature wear on the wheel bearings as well as the ball joints. So, I called DTD up and had my order changed.
I hear ya. Thanks for the info.

Thanks for the computation KBWOLF!!
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:31 AM   #25
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I love the level 8 trackers. So I went with 16 instead of 15 to get the extra BS. They are very strict over here about passing safety so I didn't want my tires sticking out too much
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:57 AM   #26
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tons of fantastic info, i appreciate every bit of it!! looks like im gonna get along with you jeep guys hahahaha!

A girl i know has a 2011 unlimited sport with 35 inch mud grappelers, ive also driven similiar, the loss in performance doesnt really bother me, not to mention im sure the extra 83 horse will help her move along just fine. What i ment by pavement queen was the 50 miles to and from work i drive every day. i live in the country up here in massachusetts, TONS OF TRAILS "but not to out of my league LOL" I realize im a newb. Looks like ill be doing the 35's after all.
Whoa...slow down, speedy. What gears are you running?

People seem to think the Pentastar is a magic fix for bigger tires, but if you've got 3.21 gears, you're gonna hate your highway performance with 35's. You won't be able to pass slower traffic in high gear, and even gradual hills will be a PITA. If you're running 3.73's (which I've got), you'll be a little better off.

This summer I'm gonna regear to 4.56's or 4.88's. Still undecided, though it's probably gonna be the 88's.

Cost: +/– $1500.

Just something to consider, since you've got a 50-mile commute.
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Old 02-14-2012, 04:22 AM   #27
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Whoa...slow down, speedy. What gears are you running?

People seem to think the Pentastar is a magic fix for bigger tires, but if you've got 3.21 gears, you're gonna hate your highway performance with 35's. You won't be able to pass slower traffic in high gear, and even gradual hills will be a PITA. If you're running 3.73's (which I've got), you'll be a little better off.

This summer I'm gonna regear to 4.56's or 4.88's. Still undecided, though it's probably gonna be the 88's.

Cost: +/– $1500.

Just something to consider, since you've got a 50-mile commute.
she has a stock 2011 gear, im almost positive they wernt changed, is the 3.21 really gonna be that much of a dog with 35s and 285 horse? i mean, i can see it being a dog with 83 less horse and why people would be concerned. i did the actual measure ments with the tire, they came to 34.3 inches tall.
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Old 02-14-2012, 06:44 AM   #28
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she has a stock 2011 gear, im almost positive they wernt changed, is the 3.21 really gonna be that much of a dog with 35s and 285 horse? i mean, i can see it being a dog with 83 less horse and why people would be concerned. i did the actual measure ments with the tire, they came to 34.3 inches tall.
The 3.6 and even 3.8 need higher revs to operate efficiently. A manual and 3.21's will be better than an auto. Regardless, I would be hesitant on going 35's with that set-up, unless a regear was in my future.

Also said "a stock 2011 gear" . That doesn't tell us anything. Auto/man?
3.21's or 3.73's? Rubicon has 4.10's.
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:04 PM   #29
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The 3.6 and even 3.8 need higher revs to operate efficiently. A manual and 3.21's will be better than an auto. Regardless, I would be hesitant on going 35's with that set-up, unless a regear was in my future.

Also said "a stock 2011 gear" . That doesn't tell us anything. Auto/man?
3.21's or 3.73's? Rubicon has 4.10's.
3.21s is what she's running. Truck struggles up hills a little but other then that does fine. Auto also
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Old 02-14-2012, 02:09 PM   #30
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3.21s is what she's running. Truck struggles up hills a little but other then that does fine. Auto also
IMO, a 2011 on 35s with 3.21 gears would be enough to make me pull my hair out. OD would be useless on the highway and any gust of wind or hill in sight would cause the Jeep to search for gears. Hell, sometimes my '11 does that and it has stock 32s and 3.73s!

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