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Old 12-11-2011, 06:03 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wanderlust View Post
Looked at the bottom of my jeep today, holy cow! Looks like someone bashed the crap out of it on rocks! Oh wait, I forgot, I went jeepin.
Ha. It wouldn't matter to me in the least if I put scratches in the undercarriage from wheeling it MYSELF, but I didn't just spend $30K to have some goons do it for me at the factory before it ever even saw 1 mile of usage.

$30k while not alot to some of you means alot to me because I know how much effort was required to earn it....when I buy a brand new vehicle regardless of how much I spent I should get something that is darn near perfect visually. It doesn't take alot of effort to place some protective pads at the areas of contact with these components so that they don't come prebotched.

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Old 12-11-2011, 06:05 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcrascal

The 2012 sales brochure states "The standard 6 speed manual transmission gets redressed with new clutch housing and assembly and a new flywheel."

Is that difference irrelevant?
Nope.... News to me.

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Old 12-11-2011, 06:09 PM   #33
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Released slightly? Isn't that "riding the clutch" so to speak

You have a warranty though. Have it looked at.
I do not "ride the clutch" when driving. If the vehicle is not moving the clutch is out and my foot is on the floor, I only depress the clutch for long enough to change gears and my foot is removed.

When I said "released slightly" I determined this after playing around with the clutch position to determine what was going on after I first heard the squealing sound. When I was sitting in the garage just after startup with the trans. in neutral I pushed the clutch to the floor and within 2-3 seconds it started to make the squealing noise. Releasing pressure just a tiny amount (1-2 mm of clutch travel) seemed to make the noise go away. It seems like for some reason there are parts that are making contact only when the pedal is all the way down which leads me to believe it is probably the throwout bearing or release fork
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:13 PM   #34
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Nope.... News to me.
He is right and that was what I was referring to.

The clutch is new, just google it.

"Along with the proven NSG 370 six-speed manual transmission, engineered for the newest Jeep Wrangler are a new clutch housing, flywheel and long-travel damper clutch"
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:19 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRubi2012

He is right and that was what I was referring to.

The clutch is new, just google it.

"Along with the proven NSG 370 six-speed manual transmission, engineered for the newest Jeep Wrangler are a new clutch housing, flywheel and long-travel damper clutch"
I have and did not come up with anything.
Just people asking and getting the same answer.

Curious on what the actual difference is

I see some of the same complaints with the new 12
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:20 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
My question- is that actually paint or a coating material that disappears anyhow
over time?
They paint the components to prevent corrosion, so I don't think its a coating that supposed to disappear. It seems to me that perhaps what happened is that they used assisted lifting devices to maneuver the axles and frame before the paint was dry which caused the gouging.

Do you notice any of this on your 2007? Most of those gouges on the axle tubes extend up toward the top of the tube so even if you have additional offroad damage now you should be able to still distinguish between what was caused by that and what was already there from the factory.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:31 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
I have and did not come up with anything.
Just people asking and getting the same answer.

Curious on what the actual difference is

I see some of the same complaints with the new 12
The hot new 2011 and 2012 Jeep Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited - see the changes with new engine, transmission, interiors, and tops (read down 7 paragraphs)

2012 Jeep Wrangler - First Drive Review - Car Reviews - Car and Driver (read down 4 paragraphs)

And if you don't believe those articles or me, then listen to this video at 8:10 where Wrangler Chief Engineer Tony Petit explains that the 2012 has a new flywheel, clutch housing, and clutch assembly.



My concern is that perhaps I am getting the short end of the stick on the introduction of this new hardware.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:45 PM   #38
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I bought a $50K+ Dodge truck a few years ago that had some similar scratches. I too, wondered what caused them. Then I forgot about them. The axle tubes haven't suffered at all......

If it troubles you that much, why not touch up the marks yourself?
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:54 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRubi2012

They paint the components to prevent corrosion, so I don't think its a coating that supposed to disappear. It seems to me that perhaps what happened is that they used assisted lifting devices to maneuver the axles and frame before the paint was dry which caused the gouging.

Do you notice any of this on your 2007? Most of those gouges on the axle tubes extend up toward the top of the tube so even if you have additional offroad damage now you should be able to still distinguish between what was caused by that and what was already there from the factory.
I bought mine in July. Just light surface rust.
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Old 12-11-2011, 06:57 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRubi2012

The hot new 2011 and 2012 Jeep Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited - see the changes with new engine, transmission, interiors, and tops (read down 7 paragraphs)

2012 Jeep Wrangler - First Drive Review - Car Reviews - Car and Driver (read down 4 paragraphs)

And if you don't believe those articles or me, then listen to this video at 8:10 where Wrangler Chief Engineer Tony Petit explains that the 2012 has a new flywheel, clutch housing, and clutch assembly.



My concern is that perhaps I am getting the short end of the stick on the introduction of this new hardware.
Perhaps leftovers?
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:00 PM   #41
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Looking at the pictures:

The scratches on the axles are chains marks from being tied down. I worked in recovery and repo and have seen those marks many times.

The sound you describe sounds like the throw out bearing. You probably found the sweet spot. Generally under load, a bad bearing gets quiet. It only gets loud in neutral or released.

Jmho

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Old 12-11-2011, 07:02 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66

I know it always seems like I'm busting your chops, but I'm really curious as to where you've been getting your information because almost all of it has been wrong. The 2012 has the same manual transmission that all of the JK's have been using and in fact the last year or two of the TJ used it as well.

Now, yes techinically the clutch is different because it's a different engine, but it's the same design so there shouldn't really be a difference. It's a hydraulic clutch, but it will have a different part number.

All it says was its a different because of the new engine but the same design.

Like (cough) Daggo said.

What that means, I don't know

Also. The flywheel is technically part of the transmission is it not?
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:15 PM   #43
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Next week should be interesting when the drive shaft starts to show signs of rust.
Wait until he finds out they didn't paint the rear of the grill...
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:16 PM   #44
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I feel sorry for your salesperson/dealer. I bet they are going to regret this sale.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:29 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by AMangum
Wait until he finds out they didn't paint the rear of the grill...
Neh..... Already warned him of underneath the roll bar padding
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:44 PM   #46
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:47 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by mcrodney View Post
Looking at the pictures:

The scratches on the axles are chains marks from being tied down. I worked in recovery and repo and have seen those marks many times.

The sound you describe sounds like the throw out bearing. You probably found the sweet spot. Generally under load, a bad bearing gets quiet. It only gets loud in neutral or released.

Jmho

Rodney
Thanks for the reply but I already explained in an earlier post why I don't believe these are chain marks that happened during shipping. The transportation company is given specific instructions by the OEM to use the oval slots in the frame to chain the vehicle down NOT by the axle tubes.
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Old 12-11-2011, 07:49 PM   #48
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All it says was its a different because of the new engine but the same design.

Like (cough) Daggo said.

What that means, I don't know

Also. The flywheel is technically part of the transmission is it not?
Flywheel is directly attached to the crankshaft of the engine along with the clutch pressure plate and housing. The clutch friction plate is what is attached to your transmission shaft and links the engine and trans. together.
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:07 PM   #49
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I can only imagine when you special order a vehicle straight from the factory, especially when everyone and their brother wants a special order brand spankin new 2012.. the factory is gonna try and pump them out as fast as possible.. so if they move your axles and frame before the paint drys and scuff it up/scratch off some paint so you can stop tracking your build and shipment online and calling them every day to ask why the status hasn't changed, wasting their time.. you should expect a little less in the quality of the undercarrage department.. i bet in a few months when people are buying dealer vehicles again they wont have this problem..

also didn't you know they switched motors this year? its safe to assume different motor = slightly different flywheel = different clutch assembly = first time they've used this combo so of course you're the guinea pig and maybe they didn't get it all right the first time..

makes me glad i'll never waste money on a jk
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:32 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by darkproximity


I can only imagine when you special order a vehicle straight from the factory, especially when everyone and their brother wants a special order brand spankin new 2012.. the factory is gonna try and pump them out as fast as possible.. so if they move your axles and frame before the paint drys and scuff it up/scratch off some paint so you can stop tracking your build and shipment online and calling them every day to ask why the status hasn't changed, wasting their time.. you should expect a little less in the quality of the undercarrage department.. i bet in a few months when people are buying dealer vehicles again they wont have this problem..

also didn't you know they switched motors this year? its safe to assume different motor = slightly different flywheel = different clutch assembly = first time they've used this combo so of course you're the guinea pig and maybe they didn't get it all right the first time..

makes me glad i'll never waste money on a jk
I loving my PO'd 07

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Old 12-11-2011, 08:35 PM   #51
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Id be PO'd too if I was an 07.. lol okay ending the hate lest the ban hammer falleth..
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Old 12-11-2011, 08:45 PM   #52
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Shawn, I ordered my '12 Rubi and I was apprehensive about the dealership 'monkeys' scratching my baby...but all turned out well and my new rig was PERFECT from the start. I looked underneath my rig and I have not seen any of the 'defects' that you have shown in your very nice photos. I really think that the delivery drivers are very careful with 'chain tie downs' so as to not cause the kind of marks you showed in your photos. I feel that your marks are from (1) manufacturing processes or (2) dealership handling. Ultimately it is up to you to decide if you will accept the vehicle with those relatively minor defects or otherwise. As far as the clutch noises I say drive it [I]with [I] the (again, minor) noises until it becomes a bigger issue. It is under warranty, after all. AND DON'T FORGET TO WAVE!!!!!!!!! : )
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:21 PM   #53
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Shawn, I ordered my '12 Rubi and I was apprehensive about the dealership 'monkeys' scratching my baby...but all turned out well and my new rig was PERFECT from the start. I looked underneath my rig and I have not seen any of the 'defects' that you have shown in your very nice photos. I really think that the delivery drivers are very careful with 'chain tie downs' so as to not cause the kind of marks you showed in your photos. I feel that your marks are from (1) manufacturing processes or (2) dealership handling. Ultimately it is up to you to decide if you will accept the vehicle with those relatively minor defects or otherwise. As far as the clutch noises I say drive it [I]with [I] the (again, minor) noises until it becomes a bigger issue. It is under warranty, after all. AND DON'T FORGET TO WAVE!!!!!!!!! : )
Unfortunately I have already "accepted" it because I didn't notice any of this stuff until I got it home and started really going over it without the pressure of a salesman standing over me and technicians waiting to do the PDI. I would probably forget about it if the paint blemishes were the only problem, but the bigger issues in my mind are the 11mpg I am getting right now and the clutch squealing. Fact is I will not live with 13-14 mpg out of the Jeep because thats just rediculously lower than the estimated values. The fact that this stuff is happening on an untouched vehicle is starting to make me wonder what else is going to go wrong in the near future so I am contemplating calling up the salesman tommorrow and seeing if I can get out of the deal.
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:23 PM   #54
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Thanks for the reply but I already explained in an earlier post why I don't believe these are chain marks that happened during shipping. The transportation company is given specific instructions by the OEM to use the oval slots in the frame to chain the vehicle down NOT by the axle tubes.
I doubt that piece paper was even looked at when that jeep got shipped. Sorry but just have a look at any car hauler running down the interstate
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:34 PM   #55
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Id be PO'd too if I was an 07.. lol okay ending the hate lest the ban hammer falleth..
your alright.

Had it coming
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:36 PM   #56
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You musta missed the joke..
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:40 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by RedRubi2012

Unfortunately I have already "accepted" it because I didn't notice any of this stuff until I got it home and started really going over it without the pressure of a salesman standing over me and technicians waiting to do the PDI. I would probably forget about it if the paint blemishes were the only problem, but the bigger issues in my mind are the 11mpg I am getting right now and the clutch squealing. Fact is I will not live with 13-14 mpg out of the Jeep because thats just rediculously lower than the estimated values. The fact that this stuff is happening on an untouched vehicle is starting to make me wonder what else is going to go wrong in the near future so I am contemplating calling up the salesman tommorrow and seeing if I can get out of the deal.
Just drive it. Ever notice you gain bionic hearing with a new vehicle or new mod. Any little noise is amplified x10 and you think the vehicle is falling apart.
I think you just over reacting--now dont get me wrong--you have every right to.

As far as the mileage per gallon ... Take your foot of the gas
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:42 PM   #58
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You musta missed the joke..
Oh no.... I was waiting for it
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:44 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by RedRubi2012
The clutch friction plate is what is attached to your transmission shaft and links the engine and trans. together.
Depends on your definition of "attached".

The input shaft of the transmission slides into the clutch friction plate so it isn't attached. I do agree that the flywheel is physically attached to the crank and then the pressure plate is attached to it.

So technically the clutch is attached to the engine and not the transmission. The "bell housing" is different for 2012 because it's attached to a completely different motor but that doesn't mean the clutch is different. Now I don't know if the clutch is different or not but wanted to point out some technicalities in the thread.
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Old 12-11-2011, 09:44 PM   #60
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Shawn, I agree with you 100% (see my post about Read this before buying a 2012). People on here love to break balls to make themselves feel tough and care free, but the bottom line is the quality on Wrangler's sucks. I love my Jeep, but noticed all the same things when I was down there POR-15-ing the underside before wheeling the thing and saw the same exact scratches as your pictures plus rust everywhere (especially on the steering components). I'm paying over 30G's, so leave the scratching, bashing and rusting to me. Other Jeep products we've owned have been perfect, but the Wrangler gets the short end of the stick, because people like us (and the carefree, rust loving 'hardcore' people) keep buying them. It's a lose-lose; stop buying and the quality will improve...but then we'd have no Jeeps for a while.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedRubi2012 View Post
The most concerning thing about the paint is the overspray on the inside of the rims and the weird texture/color of the paint on the axles. Is it possible that they botched my paint job and ran it back through with the assembled rolling chassis?

The 2012 has a new clutch from previous years, but it really sounds to me like the throwout bearing is shot.

Plus the other thing I should note is that I have used 1/2 tank fuel in 100 miles of driving. I havent refilled yet to calculate the mileage, but its obvious that its going to be around 11mpg which is rediculously low. Even though im still breaking the engine in I should only be around 3-4 mpg less than my targeted mpg which means I can probably expect 15mpg when all is said and done. I didn't buy it for mileage but that would be very dissappointing as I was able to get 20mpg out of my TJ with the 4.0.

Factoring this all together I am starting to think I got a lemon....further bring to light the fact that my build sheet states that my vehicle was in PR4 at 6:19pm on 11/23. 2nd shift the day before thanksgiving. Additionally, the build sheet states: Quality Policy, To be the premier manufacturing company in the world. That seems like a pretty lofty goal considering what I am seeing.

Do you think I would have any luck in trying to bring it back and get a different Jeep?

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