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Old 12-11-2011, 09:50 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranjr

Depends on your definition of "attached".

The input shaft of the transmission slides into the clutch friction plate so it isn't attached. I do agree that the flywheel is physically attached to the crank and then the pressure plate is attached to it.

So technically the clutch is attached to the engine and not the transmission. The "bell housing" is different for 2012 because it's attached to a completely different motor but that doesn't mean the clutch is different. Now I don't know if the clutch is different or not but wanted to point out some technicalities in the thread.
Thanks for the explanation

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Old 12-11-2011, 09:57 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by Rich331MX
Shawn, I agree with you 100% (see my post about Read this before buying a 2012). People on here love to break balls to make themselves feel tough and care free, but the bottom line is the quality on Wrangler's sucks. I love my Jeep, but noticed all the same things when I was down there POR-15-ing the underside before wheeling the thing and saw the same exact scratches as your pictures plus rust everywhere (especially on the steering components). I'm paying over 30G's, so leave the scratching, bashing and rusting to me. Other Jeep products we've owned have been perfect, but the Wrangler gets the short end of the stick, because people like us (and the carefree, rust loving 'hardcore' people like the guy who told you to buy a hummer) keep buying them. It's a lose-lose; stop buying and the quality will improve...but then we'd have no Jeeps for a while.

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You serious?

I know Chrysler has some faults crap, they all do. But come on !!! you can't be serious. We are talking about the ass crack side of the jeep.
You don't see it and it's not supposed to be pretty. Jeeps not going into a museum is it?
The underside takes on everything, rocks/sand/salt/snow/water, etc.
They don't sandblast/repaint/coat a dealer lot vehicle to they? I guess you can't make everyone happy...

Wow.

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Old 12-11-2011, 10:25 PM   #63
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From what I saw in those pictures, my guess is that most of those marks/gouges took place prior to assembly. All those parts have to be "stocked" - likely one on top of another, or rubbing against one another - and transported several times prior to final assembly. "Some settling of contents may occur".

With that said - if a part is coated with something - paint or whatever - and directly after final assemble - it's already gouged/scratched, etc - that is unsat.

Yes, the vehicle & especially the underside is going to get all sorts of different wear & damage in the normal course of use. But these are brand new vehicles. Painted/coated surfaces should not come already opened/exposed like that.

I'd draft up a nice letter to Jeep and include your pictures and see what their response is.

If paint is just for looks - and not for protection - and they verify that - then fine. No big deal. But most of the time, parts (especially underneath) are painted to protect them. They've begun to defeat that components protection before its ever even hit the road yet - and that is completely unsat.

Maybe they'll change their shipping/storage processes to protect parts better. Maybe they'll implement a post-assembly "touch up". Or, maybe they'll do nothing at all.

But I'd look into it & get an official response from Jeep/Chrysler. Regardless of what some people say - $30k is a big investment for most people, and parts that have their finish marred or damanged directly out of the factory deserves to be reviewed.
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Old 12-11-2011, 10:29 PM   #64
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i just paid for undercoating... figured it was worth it living with plenty of salt on the roads during the winters.... that was done at the dealership. no regrets there at all
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Old 12-11-2011, 11:16 PM   #65
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I was kind of disappointed that the frame wasn't color matched to my Jeep...
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:27 AM   #66
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Here are some better images of the front axle, which is by far the worst and in the bottom photo you can see a big paint run. It seems to me that a 6 year old with a can of Rustoleum could do a better job considering all of the missed spots of paint and gouges.

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Old 12-12-2011, 01:32 AM   #67
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Here is a better photo of the overspray seen on the inside of the rim. Its almost completely black near the bead, and then it fades out near the outer part of the rim. The other photo is of the wear spots on the body, and there are 4 total on either side of the body. I am still contemplating trying to return it for a different one that doesn't have all of these issues but one of my fears is that if I have to order another one there is no guarantee that it will be devoid of these defects and may even be worse. At the very least I am going to call the dealer and document my dissatisfaction with the undercarriage and describe the clutch issues. I just refueled it and calculated 13.9 mpg for the first 105 miles, which isn't as bad as I originally thought but nonetheless at the low end of the estimated mpg (Yes I know its an estimate).

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Old 12-12-2011, 01:42 AM   #68
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Here are photos of some of the damaged areas. Picture quality isnt the best, but it gets the point across.

Attachment 82640

Attachment 82641

Attachment 82642

Attachment 82643

Attachment 82645
Just rattle can it. I've been looking for a solution for scratches on my gas cans by my mounts I've made and been pointed, and happily so, at spray on plastidip. Soon as I find a warm day I'm running her through the carwash a few times for an undercarriage wash, letting it sit to dry a few hours and crawling underneath. The plastidip is really neat. It doesn't scratch like rattlecan paint or bedliner but simply abrades, especially if you multicoat it.
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Old 12-12-2011, 01:44 AM   #69
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i just paid for undercoating... figured it was worth it living with plenty of salt on the roads during the winters.... that was done at the dealership. no regrets there at all
LMAO. I'm glad I read this because I did the exact same thing and completely forgot about it. I'm still gonna wash and inspect it for plastidipping stuff and make SURE they undercoated it, but good point.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:32 AM   #70
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Just rattle can it. I've been looking for a solution for scratches on my gas cans by my mounts I've made and been pointed, and happily so, at spray on plastidip. Soon as I find a warm day I'm running her through the carwash a few times for an undercarriage wash, letting it sit to dry a few hours and crawling underneath. The plastidip is really neat. It doesn't scratch like rattlecan paint or bedliner but simply abrades, especially if you multicoat it.
By the looks of it, it seems as though Chrysler already "rattlecanned" it for me when they originally painted it except one of the drunk assembly line workers didn't have enough hand-eye coordination to fully cover it in paint. After that they then proceeded to bang it around while trying to assemble it together.

Thank you for your suggestion as I am perfectly capable of touching up these paint marks but why the heck should I have to? If I wanted to have to touch up and rework a vehicle I just brought home I would have saved 20K and bought a used Wrangler. Having intact paint is not something I should have to wish for on a newly manufactured vehicle, it should just be a standard.

I cannot believe there are people that think this kind of workmanship is normal or ok. I wouldn't be surprised or care on a $99 Maico paintjob, but not a vehicle in this pricepoint. I have seen 40 year old excavators and dozers that were repainted right over the old dirt and grease and they even look a heck of alot better than this.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:52 AM   #71
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So do you plan on doing anything about it, or are we just going to keep hearing about it?
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:53 AM   #72
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If you take a look at these links you can see the devices used on the JK assembly line to maneuver subassemblies around, and note that the cranes used to lower the engine into the frame are manually operated by a worker. Note also that the workstands the frame is placed into and how there are vertical support posts that seem to contact the frame in locations where I am seeing damage. In addition note how they support the vehicle by the axles in the second link, and this seems to line up with where I am seeing these paint gouges. Best I can figure is that the gouges on axles and scratches on the frame were caused because they started the assembly process on my Jeep early before the paint was fully dried allowing these lifting and placement fixtures to blemish the paint. This still doesn't explain why it looks like a toddler with a spray can was tasked with doing the paint job on the axles and steering components.


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Old 12-12-2011, 03:56 AM   #73
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So do you plan on doing anything about it, or are we just going to keep hearing about it?
Sent the dealership an email regarding my concerns (clutch squeal, paint damage, and low mpg's) and I attached photos. I left it open and asked for their thoughts, so I will see what they come back with. If they aren't willing to do anything, at least I can say that I tried.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:44 AM   #74
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That is about the best start you can make towards getting it fixed.
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:51 AM   #75
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This is interesting:

"Ultimately, Chrysler traced the fault to a change in the axles’ paint process. The Dana Corporation, the builder of the axles, switched from “an automated water-based paint to a manually applied solvent-based paint.” A variation in the thickness of the paint, “exacerbated by runs and drips,” led to the fastener problem."

Chrysler Recalls 22,000 Jeep Wranglers for Axle-Loosening Condition - NYTimes.com
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:17 AM   #76
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Here is another decent video of the toledo assembly complex and wrangler production starting at 7:27.

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Old 12-12-2011, 06:13 AM   #77
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That missing paint on the axle C and knuckle isn't going to matter soon. Rather than say why, I'll wait for your thread next month.
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Old 12-12-2011, 11:38 AM   #78
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Did you check to see if the overspray was grease from the u joints?
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:08 PM   #79
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Wow, those are some observations. Me, I had trouble realising there were floor mats over the carpeting in mine until I grabbed them.

Seriously though, what's the actual concern, cosmetic or integrity? Have you felt these markings? In the first batch of pictures, there a couple suspect ones, a series of scratch marks go all the way into an indentation on the one, the other a blob of gray matter along with a tiny corresponding one next to it (let me check the photos shortly..)

1, that gray matter you're indicating here, is the same as that speck next to the sticker:

http://cdn.wranglerforum.com/attachm...1&d=1323646651

2, scratch marks from the pic appear to go inside that indent as well

http://cdn.wranglerforum.com/attachm...5&d=1323647570

That's an interesting one, two distinct patterns.

Concering all the markings next to the shock mounts, can you actuall pick at it with your fingernail and does it come off? Could it be from the torque wrench vibrating against it as they tighten the bolts on all 4?

What about that overspray on the inside of the wheels when in the video it clearly shows them putting the wheels on the completed Jeeps at the very end? Where would this paint spray come from if the Jeep is complete at that point?

Be interested to hear what they have to say. What does the dealer say while you wait for Chrysler's response.
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Old 12-12-2011, 12:12 PM   #80
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[QUOTE=RedRubi2012;1820820]...I am still contemplating trying to return it for a different one that doesn't have all of these issues but one of my fears is that if I have to order another one there is no guarantee that it will be devoid of these defects and may even be worse.
/QUOTE]

RedRubi2012 first I am not an expert nor am I trying to be an a$$ but having said that, regarding the paint issues in my experience you could order 100 cars from almost any manufactuerer and have those blemishes so I dont think waiting 8 weeks would prove to be anything but a waste of time. I would advise you to go to the dealer and crawl under a couple and I garantee you will find these types of blemishes. If this really is unacceptable to you maybe used would be a better route. By the way I'm not saying its right i'm just saying that if you buy any new car you will have this. The clutch should be fixed if mechanically not right.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:29 PM   #81
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Did you check to see if the overspray was grease from the u joints?
The black residue is not grease, but it is definately some sort of overspray. I already tried to remove it with simple green to no effect.

The odd thing is that I'm seeing it on the spare tire rim also because assuming that the axles were touched up at the factory, this wouldn't affect the spare which is mounted on the rear gate.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:41 PM   #82
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Wow, those are some observations. Me, I had trouble realising there were floor mats over the carpeting in mine until I grabbed them.

Seriously though, what's the actual concern, cosmetic or integrity? Have you felt these markings? In the first batch of pictures, there a couple suspect ones, a series of scratch marks go all the way into an indentation on the one, the other a blob of gray matter along with a tiny corresponding one next to it (let me check the photos shortly..)

1, that gray matter you're indicating here, is the same as that speck next to the sticker:

http://cdn.wranglerforum.com/attachm...1&d=1323646651

2, scratch marks from the pic appear to go inside that indent as well

http://cdn.wranglerforum.com/attachm...5&d=1323647570

That's an interesting one, two distinct patterns.

Concering all the markings next to the shock mounts, can you actuall pick at it with your fingernail and does it come off? Could it be from the torque wrench vibrating against it as they tighten the bolts on all 4?

What about that overspray on the inside of the wheels when in the video it clearly shows them putting the wheels on the completed Jeeps at the very end? Where would this paint spray come from if the Jeep is complete at that point?

Be interested to hear what they have to say. What does the dealer say while you wait for Chrysler's response.
Concern is both integrity and cosmetic because the fact that these marks are down to bare metal makes me wonder how roughly these components were handled, and whether or not something could have been slightly bent or otherwise deformed. Cosmetic because the lack of paint is going to just to allow rust to run rampant on the undercarriage.

1. What you are referring to as gray matter in this photo is actually the bare metal of the axle tube where the black paint has been removed from abrasive damage. The other two specks that you mention are actually just dirt spots and not additional damage.

2. I didn't realize it the first time but yes it does appear that there are 2 distinct scratch patterns there that go in different directions. Not sure what that means, but they are scratched nonetheless.

3. None of the paint near any of the damaged areas is able to be picked off with a finger nail. Its cured and pretty hard now, which is what leads me to believe that this happened shortly after being painted....heck maybe the damage on the axles happened at the dana manufacturing facility.

4. As far as the paint overspray, the best I can figure is that this occurred somewhere else along the process and not during final assembly. Perhaps they arrived from the supplier that way....if it was paint overspray from touching up the undercarriage I wouldn't suspect it to be so even around the entire circumference of the rim nor would I expect to see it on the spare tire rim.

5. Dealer has not responded to the email I sent to them yesterday. I will wait until tommorrow before calling them.
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Old 12-12-2011, 02:51 PM   #83
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Its an undercarriage!!!!! Buy some POR15, paint it yourself and be done with it!!!!! Its going to get scratched up.......
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:38 PM   #84
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Haven't messed with my clutch yet, but do Wranglers have an adjustable pushrod to the clutch master cylinder? Sounds like he needs to shorten the pushrod....or maybe put a beer can under the clutch pedal.
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Old 12-12-2011, 03:41 PM   #85
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Haven't messed with my clutch yet, but do Wranglers have an adjustable pushrod to the clutch master cylinder? Sounds like he needs to shorten the pushrod....or maybe put a beer can under the clutch pedal.
Um...Dr. Pepper can under the pedal, maybe, in case he gets pulled over?
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:59 PM   #86
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Concern is both integrity and cosmetic because the fact that these marks are down to bare metal makes me wonder how roughly these components were handled, and whether or not something could have been slightly bent or otherwise deformed. Cosmetic because the lack of paint is going to just to allow rust to run rampant on the undercarriage.

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Old 12-12-2011, 05:14 PM   #87
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:14 PM   #88
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Um...Dr. Pepper can under the pedal, maybe, in case he gets pulled over?
OMG no.
I mean, have you SEEN the fit and finish on those cans?
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:18 PM   #89
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Dr pepper sucks. You won't find that canned garbage under my clutch pedal
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Old 12-12-2011, 05:48 PM   #90
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OMG no.
I mean, have you SEEN the fit and finish on those cans?
Then it would match the pics of the scuffed-up undercarriage in this thread, from what I've seen.

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Dr pepper sucks. You won't find that canned garbage under my clutch pedal
Ima hafta throw the gloves down on that junk, Mountain Dew-boy!

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