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Old 04-09-2012, 09:25 AM   #181
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I'm torn between the black rock 909's and the mb72s. I'd really like to see what the lugs look like underneath the center cap but I've searched high and low and can't find any pics. anyone here able to snag a pic with the center cap removed? I'd appreciate it!

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Old 04-09-2012, 10:16 AM   #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xgenic
I'm torn between the black rock 909's and the mb72s. I'd really like to see what the lugs look like underneath the center cap but I've searched high and low and can't find any pics. anyone here able to snag a pic with the center cap removed? I'd appreciate it!
I don't have a pic, but the answer IMO is "not terribly good." The 909s have several extra lug holes so one wheel can actually fit different bolt patterns. So without a cap it looks like you should have 10 lug studs and you're missing half of them. If I was going to do anything about the center cap, it would be to black out the "Black Rock" logo so it's less noticeable, but I'd keep the caps on. JMO.

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Old 04-09-2012, 10:55 AM   #183
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Originally Posted by MTH

I don't have a pic, but the answer IMO is "not terribly good." The 909s have several extra lug holes so one wheel can actually fit different bolt patterns. So without a cap it looks like you should have 10 lug studs and you're missing half of them. If I was going to do anything about the center cap, it would be to black out the "Black Rock" logo so it's less noticeable, but I'd keep the caps on. JMO.
Wouldnt that be bad to do on a wheel anyway? The more holes, the less strength and the more likely that that wheel could break under stress.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:00 AM   #184
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Wouldnt that be bad to do on a wheel anyway? The more holes, the less strength and the more likely that that wheel could break under stress.
I'd assume so in theory. Haven't heard anything about black rocks busting with any particular ease, however. Not sure what to make of it.
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Old 04-09-2012, 11:17 AM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTH

I'd assume so in theory. Haven't heard anything about black rocks busting with any particular ease, however. Not sure what to make of it.
I can't remember the brand of wheel, but on tuner cars, there was a brand for a while that was notorious for breaking completely off the car by breaking around the lug pattern. Like you said, in theory it doesn't sound good to me, but if there is no problem then why worry..
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:33 PM   #186
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Whether the wheel has 10 holes or 5 holes it still has to pass the same DOT safety tests in order for them to be sold here in the US. They both meet US DOT safety standards as far as that goes.
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Old 04-09-2012, 05:58 PM   #187
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Whether the wheel has 10 holes or 5 holes it still has to pass the same DOT safety tests in order for them to be sold here in the US. They both meet US DOT safety standards as far as that goes.
Yeah, but does everything that passes any Govt test mean its particularly safe. I'm not bashing these wheels in any way, but my engineering training/ schooling just makes me a little cautious about this method of making wheels. I'll stick with wheels that are made exactly for what they go on.
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Old 04-10-2012, 08:34 PM   #188
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Thanks for the info MTH, that was helpful. Now if only the MB72s weren't heavily backordered I'd order them in a heartbeat...
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:25 AM   #189
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Old 04-11-2012, 10:30 AM   #190
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I love my duratracs... 33x12.5x15's. Just wanted to add that. After a year and a half or so with them, through all seasons, I am impressed.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:14 PM   #191
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thanks for the heads up Discount Tire! I jumped as quick as my little legs could propel me! Got my order in, now time to wait till they ship -- should be Apr 28th. 15x8 MB72 with 33x12.5x15 DuraTracs!
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:25 PM   #192
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thanks for the heads up Discount Tire! I jumped as quick as my little legs could propel me! Got my order in, now time to wait till they ship -- should be Apr 28th. 15x8 MB72 with 33x12.5x15 DuraTracs!
Awesome We appreciate your support.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:37 PM   #193
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Are you guys primarily getting these for more off-road clearance, better tires in general, or just because your previous tires wore out?

Checking the specs on these, they are only .4 inches in diameter bigger than stock rubi tires, giving .2inches more ground clearance
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Old 04-14-2012, 09:21 AM   #194
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Here are my new 33x12.5R15 DuraTracs on 15" Black Rock D-Windows (also known as "909"s).



Purchased these through my local Discount Tire after some outstanding assistance from the Discount Tire Direct folks through PMs on this forum.

I've driven the 35 miles to work, and now can provide an initial review . . .

First up, cost. Discount Tire matched the lowest delivered price, gave me $55 each for my old Rubi tires ( ), $50 off for being a member of the Wrangler Forum, $50 off the wheels for Black Friday, and $50 off the tires for Black Friday, which brought the total to $1252.25 plus tax. On top of that, I submitted my $40 rebate through Goodyear as well as a $100 rebate through TreadLightly. I'm on the fence about whether I should sell my old Mountain Edition wheels. I might hang on to them, but if not, that's probably another $200 to $300 or so back in my pocket. That means I'm out-the-door for about $1000 for five new tires and five new wheels. Can't beat it.

Gearing. Here's where I was worried. I've got a 4 door, the old 3.8 engine, 3.21 gears, and I went up an inch in tire diameter and 2.5" in tire width. My hope however was that the super light weight of this set up would help offset some of that. (For those who don't know, 33x12.5R15 DuraTracs with a 15" alloy wheels is the lightest weight 33" set up available, even lighter than the stock Rubi set up.) Additionally, I was hoping the reduced rolling resistance from the DuraTracs (an AT tire instead of my stock MT) would also help out.

And? I was right. If anything, it is EASIER to get rolling from a stop with these tires. I couldn't believe it. I really thought I was going to have to refine my clutch technique, but nope. The stop-and-go low speed stuff is much better on these than the stock Rubi tires. Really, really happy.

On the highway, my RPMs have dropped a bit at the same speed on account of the larger diameter. But it's not much. It just means I've just got to downshift a little earlier on hills I would've downshifted on anyway. It's a non-issue.

Ride. Great. Smoother and quieter than the stock Rubi tires I am used to.

MPG. Right after I got the tires I filled up the tank, reset my MPG dash readout (as I do at every fillup), and drove 35 miles to work. My dash readout now says 19 mpg. That's around the high side of normal, which is generally anywhere between 17 mpg and 19.5 mpg. So that means my mileage has apparently either been unaffected or improved, and that's not accounting for the extra inch in diameter since I don't have a ProCal/Superchip. Very interesting. I'm going to have to watch that one.

Overall, very happy. Not a single complaint yet.

Questions? Comments? I'm all ears. And here's a few more pics.
These tires extend past the "fenders" about an inch or so, how much "mud" gets tossed up on the vehicle now compared to the OEM tires that were inside the "fenders"?
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Old 04-28-2012, 06:38 PM   #195
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:00 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by taoshum

These tires extend past the "fenders" about an inch or so, how much "mud" gets tossed up on the vehicle now compared to the OEM tires that were inside the "fenders"?
It's definitely noticeable. Get yourself a set of steel side steps and it'll take care of it. But ultimately, I don't care. I like the set up far better.
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Old 04-28-2012, 07:06 PM   #197
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:58 PM   #198
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It's definitely noticeable. Get yourself a set of steel side steps and it'll take care of it. But ultimately, I don't care. I like the set up far better.
Yeah I don't care eiher.. My old tires stuck out 3 inches.. It looked ridiculous.
I am happy!
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Old 05-01-2012, 09:08 AM   #199
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Thanks.

It's got about 1.5" of lift from .75" spacers and Mopar HD coils. But it'll rub the fenders if I were to go offroad. I'm heading to a 2.5" TeraFlex coil lift soon--it's actually sitting in a box in my kitchen.
I was going to do the 2.5" Teraflex budget boost. On my new Jeep Sahara. Sold it for $350 brand new. I would've stamped and mailed the box to you just for the 5,000 + posts.. Nice!
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Old 05-05-2012, 08:45 AM   #200
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For those folks running the 15" Black Rock Type 909 wheels, the part number for the Gorilla hub centric rings is 87-7150. They fit like a hand in a glove.
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Old 05-05-2012, 10:37 AM   #201
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For those folks running the 15" Black Rock Type 909 wheels, the part number for the Gorilla hub centric rings is 87-7150. They fit like a hand in a glove.
Great info! going to order these!
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Old 06-05-2012, 11:37 AM   #202
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Great info! going to order these!
What is the purpose of the centric rings?
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:10 PM   #203
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For those folks running the 15" Black Rock Type 909 wheels, the part number for the Gorilla hub centric rings is 87-7150. They fit like a hand in a glove.
Good find! I sent a PM asking DTD if they knew about these, if they were selling them, etc.

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What is the purpose of the centric rings?
Here's a write-up: How Hub Centric Rings Work - JustForWheels.com

As I understand it, the recessed area on the back of the vast majority of aftermarket wheels is made quite large so they can fit many different vehicles. The stock jeep wheels and AEV wheels are by contrast hub centric--that is, the hub fits inside the space behind the wheel perfectly.

In a hub centric wheel, the weight of the jeep sits on the hub, which sits on the wheel, which sits on the tire, which sits on the ground. In a wheel where the recess on the back of the wheel is larger than the hub, the weight of the jeep sits on the lug studs, which sit on the holes for the studs in the wheel, which sits on the tire, which sits on the ground. So it's a question of whether your axle hub (hub centrict) or your lug studs (non-hub centric) are supporting the weight of the vehicle.

Hub centering rings fill in the gap, basically making your jeep's hubs the same size as the recess behind the wheel. Effectively turning non-hub centric wheels into hub centric wheels.

Not having hub centering rings can, in theory, lead to vibration and the like if the wheel isn't perfectly centered among the lug studs.

FWIW though, I've been driving on my 909s since I first started this thread without hub centering rings, and I've had no problems.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:12 PM   #204
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:19 PM   #205
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Right. Still is my understanding - Shouldn't be needed if everything is installed properly, but aren't going to hurt anything either.
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Old 06-05-2012, 12:31 PM   #206
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Right. Still is my understanding - Shouldn't be needed if everything is installed properly, but aren't going to hurt anything either.
I checked out that site. No Black rock listed for wheels. We would have to get the dimension from the manufacturer.
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:14 PM   #207
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For those folks running the 15" Black Rock Type 909 wheels, the part number for the Gorilla hub centric rings is 87-7150. They fit like a hand in a glove.
I want to order a set of these hub centric rings for my Black Rock 909Bs. Are you pretty positive that this is the correct size? I had a PM to Discount Tire about this last week and they listed a different size:

"The hub bore on the 15x8 (4" BS) 909 is 83mm which makes the applicable ring size needed 83-71.5."

Now I know the diference between 83mm and 87mm isn't much, I just want to get the right size. Can anyone else running these tell me which size they are using?

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Old 10-08-2012, 02:14 PM   #208
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See the spec sheet listed below. Once you convert the 3.270" hub bore into millimeters (multiply by 25.4) you get 83mm.

Black_Rock_Type_D_Series_909B_Tech_Information.pdf
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:43 PM   #209
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See the spec sheet listed below. Once you convert the 3.270" hub bore into millimeters (multiply by 25.4) you get 83mm.

Attachment 167272
Thanks DT, ordering a set.
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Old 10-08-2012, 02:49 PM   #210
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Glad we could help!

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