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Old 06-24-2013, 02:58 PM   #1
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Exclamation New here and had some IMPORTANT QUESTIONS

hey fellow members,

im nick 23 and i currently have a 2011 bmw 335i which i am getting rid of. I have really been looking forward to the jeep wrangler unlimited .. only problem is i have read about them, but cant really say i know much about them.. the way i got interested in Jeeps is after i saw this beauty in a showroom. it had a 3inch lift kit and some 20inch rims not sure which it was listed for 41k (have attached a picture) ,, it was a jaw dropping experience for me and at that point on i knew this is my next car.. i will be using this car as my daily driver, I'm pretty sure i wont be going off road for a while since I'm too new to the jeep scene how ever i do want bigger rims and maybe a lift later on..

My main question is which unlimited model would be best for me? and what options to watch out for at the dealership i know i deff want a hardtop,navi/bluuetooth in the car and if possible red interior seats.

Another question i had is how can we make these jeeps faster are there chips.etc things for them which tune would give the best gain?


thanks in advance guys really looking forward to the advice .
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:05 PM   #2
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Welcome!
If you're looking for the luxury package, then the Sahara model may be what you're looking for as it'll have leather seats, Nav, BT, etc. As for the red leather seats, IIRC that only comes with the 10th Anniversary Rubicon, which you can get loaded with lots of premium upgrades as well, but will add to the cost. If you're not going to be doing a lot of wheeling, then the Sahara should be fine as is. If you decide later to do more wheeling, then you can easily upgrade the axles, suspension, gears, etc. If you want to do some wheeling sooner rather than later, the Rubicon will be more capable right off the dealership lot, but you won't want those big a$$ wheels to wheel. You'll want 17" or smaller wheels and 35" or bigger tires.

As for more power...well, with the proper gearing you won't really need a huge high HP engine, off road wheeling is more about torque and gearing and staying in control so you don't hurt yourself, your jeep or others. You can swap a Hemi engine for the Pentastar, but it's not a cheap mod to do...but cost is relative. If you're driving a late model 335i then you probably have the money to do a swap.
If you decide to go to huge tires, like 40", a Hemi swap will definitely keep you feeling like you have plenty of power, however.

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Old 06-24-2013, 03:16 PM   #3
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Another question i had is how can we make these jeeps faster are there chips.etc things for them which tune would give the best gain?
Hey Nick... how much faster do you want to go? Yes there are chips and reprogramming modules to enhance performance, increase gas mileage, correct functions and more. Personally, my JK goes fast enuf for me. I find the more I wheel, the slower I go and the more I enjoy it.

It's like driving a brick aerodynamically... not sure much more speed would be a good thing. One other thing... a Jeep is not a "car". It's not a truck, it's a Jeep.<period
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:22 PM   #4
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I had a fast (momentum) car before going to a truck and then shortly after that my Jeep. It was an S2K. I say that only to say this, forget about speed, forget about momentum, forget about hauling ass through the twisties. Just keep the German ride for all that noise, or go buy a lower-cost tuner car for a track day project.

As was said before, if you like the feel of get up and go to merge or keep a somewhat respectable 0-60, low gears or appropriate gears for your wheel and tire size will help in that regard but dip into your MPG.

The only evidence I've seen of a JKU doing what it shouldn't be able to do on the street (aside from a few one-off drag videos) is over at AEV where they take your money (like all of it) and throw on purpose built suspension and a V8 Hemi. Even then, it's a barn door. You learn to love the barn door.

Edit: Seriously, sometimes I think I should have waited another year or so and dropped the farm on this thing:



But nah. Too much coin.
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:26 PM   #5
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I had a fast (momentum) car before going to a truck and then shortly after that my Jeep. It was an S2K. I say that only to say this, forget about speed, forget about momentum, forget about hauling ass through the twisties. Just keep the German ride for all that noise, or go buy a lower-cost tuner car for a track day project.

As was said before, if you like the feel of get up and go to merge or keep a somewhat respectable 0-60, low gears or appropriate gears for your wheel and tire size will help in that regard but dip into your MPG.

The only evidence I've seen of a JKU doing what it shouldn't be able to do on the street (aside from a few one-off drag videos) is over at AEV where they take your money and throw on purpose built suspension and a V8 Hemi. Even then, it's a barn door. You learn to love the barn door.


lol i see what your saying thats a option i had also just to get another track car thanks for response
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:28 PM   #6
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Hey Nick... how much faster do you want to go? Yes there are chips and reprogramming modules to enhance performance, increase gas mileage, correct functions and more. Personally, my JK goes fast enuf for me. I find the more I wheel, the slower I go and the more I enjoy it.

It's like driving a brick aerodynamically... not sure much more speed would be a good thing. One other thing... a Jeep is not a "car". It's not a truck, it's a Jeep.<period
i know the "jeep" lol will not be as fast as i want but just was curios as in what i can do to make it a bit faster at least 300hp
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:32 PM   #7
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Welcome!
If you're looking for the luxury package, then the Sahara model may be what you're looking for as it'll have leather seats, Nav, BT, etc. As for the red leather seats, IIRC that only comes with the 10th Anniversary Rubicon, which you can get loaded with lots of premium upgrades as well, but will add to the cost. If you're not going to be doing a lot of wheeling, then the Sahara should be fine as is. If you decide later to do more wheeling, then you can easily upgrade the axles, suspension, gears, etc. If you want to do some wheeling sooner rather than later, the Rubicon will be more capable right off the dealership lot, but you won't want those big a$$ wheels to wheel. You'll want 17" or smaller wheels and 35" or bigger tires.

As for more power...well, with the proper gearing you won't really need a huge high HP engine, off road wheeling is more about torque and gearing and staying in control so you don't hurt yourself, your jeep or others. You can swap a Hemi engine for the Pentastar, but it's not a cheap mod to do...but cost is relative. If you're driving a late model 335i then you probably have the money to do a swap.
If you decide to go to huge tires, like 40", a Hemi swap will definitely keep you feeling like you have plenty of power, however.
sounds awesome i did not know i can get a v8 in here but i dont know if that would be a good choice with me . i do drive alot however if i do get the rubicon does that come with everything the sahara come with>??
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:44 PM   #8
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If money is no object, sounds like you need a loaded Sahara with 3.73 gears. Go test one and see if you like it.

Then send it off to AEV for a 6.4 hemi conversion and their F1 leather in red. Throw some cool 20's on it and you're set, lol.

Or just go with the 3.73 Sahara and start from there! Welcome and good luck!
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Old 06-24-2013, 03:48 PM   #9
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You can get most of the options available for extra with the Rubicon, however I think things like color matched hard top and fenders are no longer available on the Rubi.
As for how to get to 300hp...well the same engine in different Chrysler/Dodge vehicles makes over 300hp...it's all in the tune. But again, I wouldn't get caught up in HP numbers. If straight line acceleration is what's important, just make sure you get the proper gearing for your wheel size...but realize that going to 4.88 gearing...while making you accelerate faster, will also increase your RPMs while cruising and will cost you in gas mileage (which isn't close to spectacular in the Wrangler to begin with, and will be worse with increases in unsprung weight..like 20" wheels)
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Old 06-24-2013, 04:49 PM   #10
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Hello Nick

its nice to see another BMW fan joining the community Its going to be different but you're going to have a lot of fun. By the way you must be doing something right 23 and BMW

Okay so to answer one of your questions a Rubicon does not automatically come with all the options on the previous model. Here are the main differences.

The base Rubicon comes standard with the following options. The Sahara does not have these options at ALL.

-Front and Back locking differentials
-Electronic disconnect sway bar
-4:1 low range gearbox
-Dana44 front Axle

Everything else is just additional options so navigation, leather all that. So you could have a more "luxurious" Sahara edition if you loaded that up with all the creature comforts and compared it to a base Rubicon.

-----

Now there is also the sport model. That would be the base Jeep and for what you want, it doesn't have all the luxury and creature comforts that the Sahara or Rubicon have. So now you're only decision is between those two.

You said you were looking to modify it later on, but just a heads up if you keep it stock the Rubicon has more of an "aggressive" look when its stock due to the fact that it comes from the factory with rough looking 32 inch tires.

Also the red leather seats were only available on a special edition that is now discontinued (10th anniversary edition) but they may bring back red leather for another special edition. The only options you have now is black or saddle tan. But you could always put on leatherette seat covers that look like original and come in many colors.

Also one option to keep in mind there is a "Dual top option" which comes with a soft top and a hard top. You can't have them on at the same time but it might interest you.

And also you know you can have the hardtop and fenders either body color or textured black.

For now don't worry about the speed, trust me its fast enough and thats come from a BMW fan too enjoy the different driving characteristics of a jeep and maybe even take the doors and roof off. Just expect it to be different and not as "comfortable" but still a lot of fun.

If you have any other questions I would love to help.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:06 PM   #11
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If money is no object, sounds like you need a loaded Sahara with 3.73 gears. Go test one and see if you like it.

Then send it off to AEV for a 6.4 hemi conversion and their F1 leather in red. Throw some cool 20's on it and you're set, lol.

Or just go with the 3.73 Sahara and start from there! Welcome and good luck!

cool thanks whats the diff with the gears like the 3.73 what else do they have and how does it affect ??
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:08 PM   #12
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You can get most of the options available for extra with the Rubicon, however I think things like color matched hard top and fenders are no longer available on the Rubi.
As for how to get to 300hp...well the same engine in different Chrysler/Dodge vehicles makes over 300hp...it's all in the tune. But again, I wouldn't get caught up in HP numbers. If straight line acceleration is what's important, just make sure you get the proper gearing for your wheel size...but realize that going to 4.88 gearing...while making you accelerate faster, will also increase your RPMs while cruising and will cost you in gas mileage (which isn't close to spectacular in the Wrangler to begin with, and will be worse with increases in unsprung weight..like 20" wheels)
i see so the gearing affects the acceleration of the car and the mpg?
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:28 PM   #13
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i see so the gearing affects the acceleration of the car and the mpg?
Well not exactly. It depends on the size of tires you are planning on using. With the correct gearing you may find an improvement in mpg and a more responsive car so kind of like "acceleration"

also you can have body colored fenders and roof on a Rubicon.
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Old 06-24-2013, 05:41 PM   #14
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Hello Nick

its nice to see another BMW fan joining the community Its going to be different but you're going to have a lot of fun. By the way you must be doing something right 23 and BMW

Okay so to answer one of your questions a Rubicon does not automatically come with all the options on the previous model. Here are the main differences.

The base Rubicon comes standard with the following options. The Sahara does not have these options at ALL.

-Front and Back locking differentials
-Electronic disconnect sway bar
-4:1 low range gearbox
-Dana44 front Axle

Everything else is just additional options so navigation, leather all that. So you could have a more "luxurious" Sahara edition if you loaded that up with all the creature comforts and compared it to a base Rubicon.

-----

Now there is also the sport model. That would be the base Jeep and for what you want, it doesn't have all the luxury and creature comforts that the Sahara or Rubicon have. So now you're only decision is between those two.

You said you were looking to modify it later on, but just a heads up if you keep it stock the Rubicon has more of an "aggressive" look when its stock due to the fact that it comes from the factory with rough looking 32 inch tires.

Also the red leather seats were only available on a special edition that is now discontinued (10th anniversary edition) but they may bring back red leather for another special edition. The only options you have now is black or saddle tan. But you could always put on leatherette seat covers that look like original and come in many colors.

Also one option to keep in mind there is a "Dual top option" which comes with a soft top and a hard top. You can't have them on at the same time but it might interest you.

And also you know you can have the hardtop and fenders either body color or textured black.

For now don't worry about the speed, trust me its fast enough and thats come from a BMW fan too enjoy the different driving characteristics of a jeep and maybe even take the doors and roof off. Just expect it to be different and not as "comfortable" but still a lot of fun.

If you have any other questions I would love to help.


thats great i thought i was the only one coming from bmw lol... thanks for the input was really helpful love the breakdown ....can i get the features of the sahara in the rubicon? also if i did want 20 inch rims would i need a lift kit? and i was looking towards the hard top really grew on me withe same color panels.
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:43 PM   #15
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thats great i thought i was the only one coming from bmw lol... thanks for the input was really helpful love the breakdown ....can i get the features of the sahara in the rubicon? also if i did want 20 inch rims would i need a lift kit? and i was looking towards the hard top really grew on me withe same color panels.
Yes all options that are available on the Sahara are also available on the Rubicon.

Generally speaking we have to look at the tire as a whole and not just the rims. On a stock Jeep wrangler you could fit a tire of up to 33inch size. Now 20 inch rims with a 33inch tires might look a little funny. Personally I think for 20inch rims you'll need a 35 inch tire at least for it to look okay and that leads us to a lift kit, in order to fit a 35 inch tire you'll need 2.5 to 3.5 inches of lift.

Basically in short it doesn't matter about rim size its more about overall diameter of the tire. For what its worth a stock Rubicon is 17inch rims on 32 inch tires and a Sahara is 18 inch rims on similar sized tires, but the tread is less "aggressive"
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Old 06-24-2013, 06:44 PM   #16
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Do you know how big the tires are in that picture?
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Old 06-24-2013, 08:21 PM   #17
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RacecarBMW's post is excellent, and I'd like to add a little to it for the OP to consider. He did leave two things off--the Rubicon comes with rock rails (vs the Sahara's side steps) and the Rubicon tires have reinforced sidewalls.

To me, there are three possible reasons (alone or in combination) to buy a Wrangler. One, you want the image/lifestyle/look. Two, you want a five seat convertible with good cargo capacity (Unlimited, at least). Three, you want one of the most capable out of the box new vehicles to tackle hard core off road obstacles.

In terms of models, buy the Sport because you are watching your pennies (either because you have to, or you don't want to pay for gadgets and trimmings) or because you plan to modify the living daylights out of it, and there is no reason to pay for things you are going to change out. Buy the Sahara if you want a well equipped mall cruiser. Buy the Rubicon if you want the best possible stock off road capability.

I come from a performance car background (I have two track cars, including a BMW E36 M3). If you like flinging your 335 around corners, and/or you enjoy the rush of the turbo(s), and/or performance capability matters at all--the Wrangler will not scratch that itch. Further, you can buy cheaper and/or better warrantied and/or faster and/or more modern and/better built four wheel drive vehicles that will handle most situations where most people think four wheel drive is a good idea.

The Wrangler (in any form) is incredibly capable off road, and can be improved in many, many ways. But you aren't buying a modern, refined vehicle--you should be sure you are good with that going in.
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:43 PM   #18
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Well not exactly. It depends on the size of tires you are planning on using. With the correct gearing you may find an improvement in mpg and a more responsive car so kind of like "acceleration"

also you can have body colored fenders and roof on a Rubicon.
so i should get a higher gear? im set on 20 inch rims and big tires like in my posts pic
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:47 PM   #19
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Yes all options that are available on the Sahara are also available on the Rubicon.

Generally speaking we have to look at the tire as a whole and not just the rims. On a stock Jeep wrangler you could fit a tire of up to 33inch size. Now 20 inch rims with a 33inch tires might look a little funny. Personally I think for 20inch rims you'll need a 35 inch tire at least for it to look okay and that leads us to a lift kit, in order to fit a 35 inch tire you'll need 2.5 to 3.5 inches of lift.

Basically in short it doesn't matter about rim size its more about overall diameter of the tire. For what its worth a stock Rubicon is 17inch rims on 32 inch tires and a Sahara is 18 inch rims on similar sized tires, but the tread is less "aggressive"

i see so if I got a 20 inch rim I would need a 35 inch tire that would lead to a 2.5 to 3.5 inch lift or else car would not look right?
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:50 PM   #20
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Do you know how big the tires are in that picture?
nnot sure just know the rims
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Old 06-24-2013, 10:59 PM   #21
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RacecarBMW's post is excellent, and I'd like to add a little to it for the OP to consider. He did leave two things off--the Rubicon comes with rock rails (vs the Sahara's side steps) and the Rubicon tires have reinforced sidewalls.

To me, there are three possible reasons (alone or in combination) to buy a Wrangler. One, you want the image/lifestyle/look. Two, you want a five seat convertible with good cargo capacity (Unlimited, at least). Three, you want one of the most capable out of the box new vehicles to tackle hard core off road obstacles.

In terms of models, buy the Sport because you are watching your pennies (either because you have to, or you don't want to pay for gadgets and trimmings) or because you plan to modify the living daylights out of it, and there is no reason to pay for things you are going to change out. Buy the Sahara if you want a well equipped mall cruiser. Buy the Rubicon if you want the best possible stock off road capability.

I come from a performance car background (I have two track cars, including a BMW E36 M3). If you like flinging your 335 around corners, and/or you enjoy the rush of the turbo(s), and/or performance capability matters at all--the Wrangler will not scratch that itch. Further, you can buy cheaper and/or better warrantied and/or faster and/or more modern and/better built four wheel drive vehicles that will handle most situations where most people think four wheel drive is a good idea.

The Wrangler (in any form) is incredibly capable off road, and can be improved in many, many ways. But you aren't buying a modern, refined vehicle--you should be sure you are good with that going in.

Thanks really appreciate the good input. I believe I fit into the image -lifestyle look- lol.. and also the convertible it's a big plus for me. I won't really be going off-road but if I end up getting a sport I would like to make sure I have leather seats navigation Bluetooth and same color hard top. for my speed side i have came to a conclusion I would be buying a project car something for speed or what not.
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Old 06-24-2013, 11:51 PM   #22
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Nick, coming from a BMW, you'll probably be used to your chakras been coddled by the sport suspension - not so on the Wrangler, especially with one that has smaller tires and big wheels.

Get 35" tires with 17-18" wheels along with a small lift kit to soak up the bumps and coddle your buttocks. Dare I say the ride will soak up the irregularities in the road similar to the BMW, better so than stock wheels/tires and certainly better than 20"+ wheels? Yup.

Also, if you can afford to do a 5.7L Hemi swap, do it. That's the best choice to take in getting you the oomph you want.

Welcome to the club and keep us posted.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:12 AM   #23
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I came out of a 335i and into a new rubi just a month ago. As someone who's driven modded bmw's most of his life, and swore up and down he'd never buy a domestic, here are my observations:

1. Fit and finish on the interior is garbage compared to a bmw. It looks nice, but once you spend some time in it, you'll realize it's just the same craptastic plastic that domestics use. It will creak, groan, rattle, and have a lot of ill fitting gaps. It really lacks the solid feel of a German interior.

2. You'll feel very strange not having all that power low down anymore. You know when you're taking off from a light, and there's some slow person in front of you making you insane because they aren't going fast enough and your car wants to go through their back window? You will become that slow person.

3. The jeep is way more comfortable on crappy streets.

4. Passing with the jeep will feel like suicide the first few times. Aerodynamic it ain't.

5. Being able to take the doors and top off will amaze you the first time you do it. You'll become addicted to it.

6. You will get less parking lot dents and vandalism from jealous people if you have a jeep. There's some crazy international level hatred toward bmw's and their owners.

7. Hot female joggers will randomly smile and wave at you as you drive by in the jeep. Not so much in a BMW due to the stigma attached to the brand.

8. You will get far more compliments on your jeep. Random people will just walk up to you to tell you how much they love it and want one.

9. Jeepers are far more friendly than the BMW community.

10. You will care a lot less about the jeep, making ownership way less stressful. Got a dent from a trail? Battle scar. Muddy? That's what jeeps are for. I have only washed mine once, and that was just because I wanted to check for leaks.

11. No more hunting around for a gas station with decent premium.

12. The jeep has cupholders that actually hold normal sized beverages within easy reach.

All in all, I'm far happier with my jkr than I was with my 335 (and I loved that car a lot). It's far more relaxing to drive, and a lot more fun. You'll pretty much immediately fall in love with all of the quirks that would make the jeep inferior to a bmw. You'll also probably drop the desire to make it go faster once you drive it for a while and realize that jeeps aren't about going fast. They're about exploring and going places you could never go before. It's a whole different type of automobile.

I will say this though... The bluetooth blows goats compared to the BMW system. I miss being able to Skype from my car. Honestly, that is probably the only thing I miss about my 335.


lol hahaha cant wait for the girls,.. tell me about it German cup holders suck big time..thats one of the reasons i wanted a jeep something strongly build .. i worried about my 335 too much i had to get it re-sprayed on both doors because of the jealousy that some people have... I have a feeling I will get used to the speed I live in New York you can't really do much with speed out here what do you mean by number 4??? And if you don't mind me asking do you live out in ny also?
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:11 AM   #24
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Manic, since you upgraded to the jeep, what has become of your buttocks? The jeep's ride gives a completely different ride than the butt cuddling ride that the 335 arguably delivers very well.

And if the op is in NY, he'll probably have more gangstas want to talk to him about his sick ride. Take it to Jersey and the story changes.
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Old 06-25-2013, 02:17 AM   #25
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If you have the cash why not order an AEV built with the Hemi ?
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:16 AM   #26
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Thank you for your concern. .
Tee hee hee

I came from a 328 and my caaahootie feels better now than in the BMW. I will say that on the first drive of the wrangler I was surprised at how really well engineered the seat were.

For a cabin that was tossing and turning over the rough stuff on my stock sport test drive, I'd never felt so well held in place. That was odd because the pictures really don't do justice as to how well put the seats really are.
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:29 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Manic View Post
Yup. I know the feeling. I had everything from huge boot sized dents in my quarter panels, to someone writing "dick car" with their key in my door. Nobody touches the jeep though. Had one lady throw her door into it. Left a smudge on my rock rail that I wiped off with my thumb, and put a huge crease in her door. They're a remarkably durable vehicle. That was one of the main selling points for me. We have crappy streets where I live, and my suspension and wheels were taking a beating all the time.

Number 4? Passing. Yeah. You know how when you're flying down the highway and you pass someone in the 335, you kind of give it some juice, hop into the other lane, and go? Jeeps, not so much. My first highway drive taught me quickly that you have to change lanes slooooowly and then accelerate to pass. They are not an autobahn ready automobile. That's for sure. I have a 2 door though. Maybe the unlimited handles a little nicer on the highway.

I don't live near NY. I'm up in the cold barren wasteland of Canada. But I do hop down to NY a few times a year, so I know what you mean about not using the speed.

And the first time you put a large coffee into a cup holder that you know isn't going to throw it all over your floor, you will love the jeep that much more.
yes i understand number 4 now lol that sucks that i wont be able to do that i was so use to it lol
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Old 06-25-2013, 10:31 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Manic View Post
With the sport suspension, 30 profile tires, hard BMW seats, and crappy streets, after moving to the jeep my butt has actually never felt better. Thank you for your concern.

Seriously though. My 335 was awesome on a smooth stretch of road, but here where there's some kind of hard bump every 20 feet, it got tiring pretty quick.
my 335 was a full bolt on lowered also so nothing was better than sitting in a jeep lol
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:16 PM   #29
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lol hahaha cant wait for the girls,.. tell me about it German cup holders suck big time..thats one of the reasons i wanted a jeep something strongly build .. i worried about my 335 too much i had to get it re-sprayed on both doors because of the jealousy that some people have... I have a feeling I will get used to the speed I live in New York you can't really do much with speed out here what do you mean by number 4??? And if you don't mind me asking do you live out in ny also?
I think jealousy is the wrong term. While I am sure the people in this thread are perfect gentlemen, over the years most people driving BMWs have conditioned me to believe the following:

BMW drivers are most likely:
1)Arrogant
2)Have the right of way in all scenarios
3)Don't smile
4)Tailgate constantly
5)Traffic laws only loosely apply to them

I really like the inline 6 BMW engines but have never desired to have one because of the above stigma. I am not alone in thinking this.

THAT BEING SAID: I have never dented, scratched, etc to any BMW. I respect people's property too much for that garbage.
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Old 06-25-2013, 12:33 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Olysouthpaw24 View Post
I think jealousy is the wrong term. While I am sure the people in this thread are perfect gentlemen, over the years most people driving BMWs have conditioned me to believe the following:

BMW drivers are most likely:
1)Arrogant
2)Have the right of way in all scenarios
3)Don't smile
4)Tailgate constantly
5)Traffic laws only loosely apply to them

I really like the inline 6 BMW engines but have never desired to have one because of the above stigma. I am not alone in thinking this.

THAT BEING SAID: I have never dented, scratched, etc to any BMW. I respect people's property too much for that garbage.
everyone has there own opinion i respect you for respecting others property.. there are those few drivers that ruin it for alot of ppl but thats just how things are.. but i dont feel like that should stop you from getting a bmw.. after all a gentleman does what he desires lol.. and treats others like one also

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