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Old 08-15-2014, 08:24 AM   #1
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New Intake tripping high temp error

Put on the XT red rocks intake, twice now in a day check engine light for high air temp? Will this stop?

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Old 08-15-2014, 10:19 AM   #2
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Probably not. Tons of "cold air intakes" are notorious for heat soak.

Return it and put your stock box back on.

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Old 08-15-2014, 10:21 AM   #3
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My Banks CAI, installed in June of this year iirc, tripped the CEL immediately. I didn't bother to read a code. Drove it for 15 minutes and parked. When I drove it again it was off and I've never seen it since.
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Old 08-15-2014, 10:23 AM   #4
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Did u have to disconnect any sensors to install it?

Might just try to reset the ecu. Usually a good idea to do it anyway after any engine change.
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Old 08-15-2014, 11:39 AM   #5
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...
Might just try to reset the ecu. Usually a good idea to do it anyway after any engine change.
^^^This.


Here's one of the many "right" ways to do it: The Jeep Parts Experts - Quadratec
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Old 08-15-2014, 12:10 PM   #6
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Probably not. Tons of "cold air intakes" are notorious for heat soak.

Return it and put your stock box back on.
Agreed...100%

If you are just driving around town in hot weather at slow speeds...you are probably getting warmer air than what your stock intake would do (if you have a cheaper metal CAI). The metal heats up and warms the air going into the engine. So the CAI turns into a WAI.
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:39 PM   #7
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LOL. A 'Cold Air Intake' brings in cold air only in cold air environments.

The name is a marketing gimmick unless one is routing the air conditioner output into the intake.

Good luck with the sensor code/CEL issue.
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Old 08-15-2014, 01:50 PM   #8
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LOL. A 'Cold Air Intake' brings in cold air only in cold air environments. The name is a marketing gimmick unless one is routing the air conditioner output into the intake. Good luck with the sensor code/CEL issue.
It's because theses aren't CAI, they are WAI, a true cold air take does being in cooler air even in warm climate above speed like someone else mention. They are also routed to go down below the engine closer to the pavement and not sit in the stock air box location.

I had a true CAI on my car and the filter was about 4" off the ground and I noticed a difference in performance. Wasn't huge but it was noticeable.
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Old 08-15-2014, 03:11 PM   #9
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Haven't done it with the Jeep, but I had a home-designed/ home made CAI on a Miata decades ago and I used a thermocouple attachment that my multimeter came with so I could read intake temps right behind the air filter. With the CAI the intake temps were over 45 degrees cooler than the stock setup, which was right above the exhaust header.

It all depends on what the stock positioning and design is, and what the new positioning and design is as to whether you can easily see an improvement. They are not inherently "warm air intakes" just because you replace OEM with aftermarket.

The Banks I use is plastic, is well isolated from the engine, has great airflow from the front and side hood cracks, and even has the ugly molded-in Helmholtz chamber that is so important for keeping low-rpm torque maximized.

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Old 08-15-2014, 03:26 PM   #10
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The heatsoak comes from the intake tube (especially when they are metal), not the air box (if connected to one).

Real CAI's are usually mounted through the fender or whell well (or headlight) and usually pull outside air from right above the ground.

The closest thing to a CAI on a Wrangler is snorkel. Everything else is just an "intake".
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:08 PM   #11
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What makes you think ground-level air is a good thing? That is the absolute worst place you can pull air from:

It is filthy, since your tires and the guy in front of you are kicking up everything in the road;

It is hot as hell. Go measure road temp 12" above the asphalt vs. 48" above asphalt. As much as 30 degrees ambient difference.

I've never seen a CAI that draws from road level. I'm sure there must be one since you keep referring to them, but that's certainly not the norm for racing or street applications.



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Old 08-15-2014, 04:13 PM   #12
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^ it's sat flush with the sub frame and it had a cover only the bottom end of this cone filter was exposed. It was a J shapes aluminum tube that came straight out of the throttle body and went straight down.

As soon you get moving there is a nice steady stream of cooler are moving under then would ever reach the oem air box location.
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:16 PM   #13
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I can't remember the brand it was as this was on my car when I was 18, I am now almost 35. My car was on a dyno with and with out it and it was a 12hp gain with no airflow.
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Old 08-15-2014, 04:37 PM   #14
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What makes you think ground-level air is a good thing? That is the absolute worst place you can pull air from:

It is filthy, since your tires and the guy in front of you are kicking up everything in the road;

It is hot as hell. Go measure road temp 12" above the asphalt vs. 48" above asphalt. As much as 30 degrees ambient difference.

I've never seen a CAI that draws from road level. I'm sure there must be one since you keep referring to them, but that's certainly not the norm for racing or street applications.



Actualy the intakes on the VQ platform that made the most HP were all long tubes that were routed either down in front of the radiator, or into the fender well. I'll try to find a pic.
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Old 08-15-2014, 05:28 PM   #15
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We are not talking about $1M supercars (that are mid or rear engined). We are talking about "bolt on" CAI's for a front engined vehicle.

Like I said before, the closest thing to a CAI on a Wrangler is a snorkel. But outside of that, unless plan on running a new hood and custom piping to get outside air to your intake...the so called CAI's on Wranglers are nothing but WAI's.

They are designed more like this:






BTW, metal tubing (in some of those shown) are not good (effective) for CIA's that are in DD's that sit in traffic.
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Old 08-15-2014, 06:00 PM   #16
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As soon you get moving there is a nice steady stream of cooler are moving under then would ever reach the oem air box location.
No, there's really not.

Air sits above the asphalt, superheated to 130-150 degrees in summer.

It has no idea you are coming along in your CAI-equipped whatever.

So it just continues to sit there, at 130+ degrees.

Here your intake comes, 10 inches above the ground. When it gets to this nice hot air, it sucks it in. Because that's the only air available. An instant later, it has moved 10 feet further down the road and is sucking in THAT 150 degree air.

There's no "stream of air" (assuming you're not driving into a strong, cool headwind.) Your car is moving through the existing ambient air, sucking it down as it gets to it.

This is why nobody would choose to feed air into the engine from right above the pavement, unless they couldn't possibly get to air that is higher up..
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Old 08-15-2014, 06:08 PM   #17
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We are not talking about $1M supercars (that are mid or rear engined). We are talking about "bolt on" CAI's for a front engined vehicle.

.
And I showed the McLaren and Porsche pictures in order to refute the idea that you want to suck your intake air from ground level. The pictures (and I could load us down with many more) demonstrate that given a clean slate a designer would want air from as far from the tarmac as he can get it. Which seems like an idea that I wouldn't have to prove to anyone.

As for the idea of drawing air from outside the engine bay, yes, that is certainly preferable. On a motor that is gulping huge amounts of air, such an arrangement is often needed. Other motors that can't move very much air anyway (and the Pentastar would certainly fall into that category,) can often draw enough outside cooling air from the cracks around the edges of the hood to create a cooler intake charge than an OEM box.

As I said earlier, it all depends on the design and execution of both the OEM box and the CAI as to whether the CAI truly offers a denser intake charge than OEM or not. I haven't tested the Banks on mine because:

1) I bought it strictly for the sound (and I could tell that the design was at least as isolated from heat soak as the OEM design,)

2) It's too much trouble to stick the OEM back on and measure the air temps on the filter again. Perhaps I'll do that with somebody else's JK when I get around to it.
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:50 AM   #18
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Well thanks for all the replies, I cleared the code a second time when tuning with the Superchips, and so far it hasn't come back. Maybe things are all on the up and up, it was toasty here in FL the last couple days. Looks like this mod will stick around for awhile!
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Old 08-16-2014, 10:42 AM   #19
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As for the idea of drawing air from outside the engine bay, yes, that is certainly preferable. On a motor that is gulping huge amounts of air, such an arrangement is often needed. Other motors that can't move very much air anyway (and the Pentastar would certainly fall into that category,) can often draw enough outside cooling air from the cracks around the edges of the hood to create a cooler intake charge than an OEM box.

For maximum performance at any speed it is essential.

On our modern engines timing is controlled in large part by IAT temps. I have never seen anyone in the Jeep world data log IAT to timing, not really that important since we don't track them. But in the Vette world we had that data. IAT temps of 76 degrees would start pulling timing. With a warmed up engine and the stock intake temps are always above that except on cold days. Along came the aftermarket with CAI systems that pulled air from the front of the car, 6-10 inches off the ground and IAT's dropped to approx +1 degrees over ambient. Of course this would never work in the Jeep world.

The only true CAI we have for the Jeep are the snorkel systems. The stock system pulls air from the same place the aftermarket systems do. The only difference is the type of filter used.
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Old 08-16-2014, 11:31 AM   #20
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What makes you think ground-level air is a good thing? That is the absolute worst place you can pull air from:

It is filthy, since your tires and the guy in front of you are kicking up everything in the road;

It is hot as hell. Go measure road temp 12" above the asphalt vs. 48" above asphalt. As much as 30 degrees ambient difference.

I've never seen a CAI that draws from road level. I'm sure there must be one since you keep referring to them, but that's certainly not the norm for racing or street applications.
^This. Just look at your engine bay and see at the road dust. When you OPEN and move your intake closer to the street to capture "cold air" you're sucking all that shit into your intake. The only time asphalt generates cold air is when it's cold outside - no sun. When it's 90 degrees it absorbs heat and generates more heat than ambient temperatures.

I good example is try to walk barefoot on black asphalt when its 110 degrees with the sun bearing down. You will burn your feet. Then walk on white concrete or the white paint stripe in the crosswalk. Huge difference.

CAI is a play on words... the only time it picks up cold air is when the air is cold at night or during the day when the sun is blocked by clouds - even that can be disputed.

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Old 08-16-2014, 12:41 PM   #21
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For maximum performance at any speed it is essential.

On our modern engines timing is controlled in large part by IAT temps. I have never seen anyone in the Jeep world data log IAT to timing, not really that important since we don't track them. But in the Vette world we had that data. IAT temps of 76 degrees would start pulling timing. With a warmed up engine and the stock intake temps are always above that except on cold days. Along came the aftermarket with CAI systems that pulled air from the front of the car, 6-10 inches off the ground and IAT's dropped to approx +1 degrees over ambient. Of course this would never work in the Jeep world.

The only true CAI we have for the Jeep are the snorkel systems. The stock system pulls air from the same place the aftermarket systems do. The only difference is the type of filter used.
I totally agree. If someone feels the need for outside air install a snorkel. You get the air plus the added benefit of most likely not worrying about intaking water and locking up the engine. Coming from Corvettes and an M3, in a brain dead moment, I don't see how cold/hot air induction systems are really worth the effort on a JK 3.8 or 3.6. The stock box actually works very well. I still get a good laugh when I infrequently see a JK speeding down the road. A Mini Cooper can run circles around it, especially when it comes to handling. JK's do off road real good. I guess some just can't wrap their head around that it is a purpose built vehicle. Having said that also means modifications are a personal choice. So, add the induction systems if that's what "you" like.
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Old 08-16-2014, 01:48 PM   #22
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For maximum performance at any speed it is essential.

On our modern engines timing is controlled in large part by IAT temps. I have never seen anyone in the Jeep world data log IAT to timing, not really that important since we don't track them. But in the Vette world we had that data. IAT temps of 76 degrees would start pulling timing. With a warmed up engine and the stock intake temps are always above that except on cold days. Along came the aftermarket with CAI systems that pulled air from the front of the car, 6-10 inches off the ground and IAT's dropped to approx +1 degrees over ambient. Of course this would never work in the Jeep world.

The only true CAI we have for the Jeep are the snorkel systems. The stock system pulls air from the same place the aftermarket systems do. The only difference is the type of filter used.
We are having two completely different conversations.

I posted my learned and erudite posts in order to counter the following two false statements:

1) CAIs are really WAIs because they make the intake charge temp higher than a stock box does

2) The really cool air is right on top of the tarmac, and that's where you need to get it from.

That's it. Not arguing against anything that you say about Corvette practices, but I will point out the obvious with that one: Air from nearly anywhere OUTSIDE the engine compartment is cooler than air from nearly anywhere INSIDE the engine compartment. So yes, it is better to get super-heated pavement-sucking air from under the car than it is to get molten-lava air from under the hood. No question.

But is that a good place to get cool air in summer? Nope. It's just that Corvette guys aren't willing to cut their hoods or fenders to get cold air. So they do what they do. (And who can blame them?)

Fortunately, in the Porsche world our intakes are plumbed right to holes in the sides or louvers in the back deck of the car and do a pretty good job of isolating their intake air away from the hot engine bay (see 996 Turbo below.) But it's still not as good as the McLaren and the 911GT1 I pictured above, getting the air from four feet above the road.

As for the other assertion, all CAIs don't use anodized purple aluminum intake tubing that's laying on top of the headers (although I'm sure some do.) The Banks I chose and that is pictured above is made of the same plastic as OEM, has larger air openings and a cone filter, and utilizes a pretty well-engineered Helmholtz chamber for torque. That's why it's not 119 bucks at PepBoys. And as I said, I bought it because I wanted the excellent audio track it adds to my Magnaflow when you lay into it. Does it make for cooler intake air than stock? I seriously doubt it. But I don't see how it would be any warmer either.

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Old 08-16-2014, 01:55 PM   #23
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Twenty years ago when I was racing Miatas we had a neat little aftermarket device called a Turn Signal Intake. It replaced the big 10x2" plastic turn signals with a combo turn signal/opening into the engine bay. I plumbed my intake box to sit right behind the one on the drivers side. You could stick a rag in that TSI and intake temps would go up 40 degrees within a minute.

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Old 08-16-2014, 02:28 PM   #24
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Since we are having a discussion about "cold" air intakes, I will just add that my Mustang GT does monitor the intake temp. When I look at the temp, it is ALWAYS 2 to 5 degrees above the ambient temperature. And it is drawing air from the left wheel well, outside of the engine bay. So, that will probably be as "cold " as it can get. If it is 20 below outside, one will then have a true "cold" air intake; but if it is 100 above......not so much.
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:18 PM   #25
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And I showed the McLaren and Porsche pictures in order to refute the idea that you want to suck your intake air from ground level. The pictures (and I could load us down with many more) demonstrate that given a clean slate a designer would want air from as far from the tarmac as he can get it. Which seems like an idea that I wouldn't have to prove to anyone.

As for the idea of drawing air from outside the engine bay, yes, that is certainly preferable. On a motor that is gulping huge amounts of air, such an arrangement is often needed. Other motors that can't move very much air anyway (and the Pentastar would certainly fall into that category,) can often draw enough outside cooling air from the cracks around the edges of the hood to create a cooler intake charge than an OEM box.

As I said earlier, it all depends on the design and execution of both the OEM box and the CAI as to whether the CAI truly offers a denser intake charge than OEM or not. I haven't tested the Banks on mine because:

1) I bought it strictly for the sound (and I could tell that the design was at least as isolated from heat soak as the OEM design,)

2) It's too much trouble to stick the OEM back on and measure the air temps on the filter again. Perhaps I'll do that with somebody else's JK when I get around to it.
Yes, and thet bolded/underlined is the difference.

We are not talking about a clean slate. We are talking about "bolt on" so called cold air intakes.

Unless you plan on revamping your hood (cowl induction) and other external designs, your outside air is going to come from someplace like the lower grill, wheel well, or maybe a headlight.....especially on a front engine vehicle.

Outside air a few inches off the ground is still cooler than air trapped in your engine bay.

I'm glad you are doing it for the sound and such, because the idea of bolt on CAI's in the JK (as most are designed) is marketing misinformation. They are just intakes....(no cold involved). The cheaper ones with metal intakes will make things worse at low speeds.
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Old 08-17-2014, 11:49 AM   #26
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