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Old 11-23-2011, 07:51 PM   #1
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Question Newbie needs advise on lifts, BBs, and tires

I'll state now that some of my questions here are probably going to be pretty stupid so I apologize in advance. I also know that some of my questions could be nullified by answers I recieve to some of my other questions. I just figured I'd try to get all of my questions out in one go and take it from there.

Still reading? Ok, here we go....

Jeep: 2012 JK, running 255/75/17 (which I think comes out to 31" dia)
Future mods: bumpers (front and rear), winch, lift and tires

The winch will probably be ordered in the very near future, but right now I'm doing my research on lifts and tires. I'm not 100% ready yet, just trying to learn as much as possible.

I don't know where I'll want to end up down the road (pardon the pun) but for now I'd like to upgrade to 33" tires w/ some more width to them.

Now here come the dumb questions/comments/statements....

1) I'm looking at doing this in stages so that I can spend a bit at a time, all the while making some progress. I know that you can do a lift without upgrading tires, but I agree w/ others that this could end up looking ridiculous depending on what lift you go with and what tires you are running (not hating on anyone that takes this approach, just saying that I'd prefer not to). So I was wondering if I'd be able to go to 33" tires without doing a lift? It "looks" like I have plenty of room and the only issue I'd run into w/ rubbing would be if I flexed alot. However, since I only plan on simple trails and some fun mudding for now, that doesn't appear to be an issue. I also know that if I kept the stock rims (for now) I could employ spacing to solve any issues w/ rub while turning until I got new rims w/ appropriate backspacing. I could go tires and rims at the same time, but that will come down to cost.

2) If the answer to #1 is "yes, 33s will fit for what you want" then you can skip this piece. If the answer is "no, idiot, that won't fit" then I'm guessing something around a 2" lift would be required for the 33s. This brings us to #3

3) I've tried to do as much reading as I can regarding suspension lift vs body lift and their various pros and cons. What is the core difference? I know how both function so if you had to sum up the main difference between the 2 (in terms of utilization, not parts/install) what would you say? Notice that I mentioned upgrading bumpers down the road. I'm guessing that a suspension upgrade would be needed for that thus necessitating a suspension lift over a BB. But until I get the heavier bumpers, would there be any reason I wouldn't just BB until then?

4) While we're on the topic of lifts, I see alot of you talking about leveling kits. Is this more of an esthetic change? Is this required for tires clearance in the front when upgrading? Or does it just give a little more clearance at the nose?

That should you plenty to digest and sorry for the long post. I hate not knowing things, but we all gotta start somewhere.

Thanks in advance for your replies.

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Old 11-23-2011, 08:20 PM   #2
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33's will fit. You could get new wheels with the proper BS for less then you would the spacers needed to fit the tires.

Look through the tire section and contact one of the venders. . join TL, I believe will get you $100 rebate on tires. The venders on here are great. I'm sure they can put a package together for you.

Rubi takeoffs are also a hot sell and an awesome upgrade for $750-$1000.

Leveling kits will get rid of the factory rake. 2" in the front 1" in the back. Just an inexpensive option to fit bigger tires or a little more height.

HD springs from Mopar is another option if your jeeps sitting on soft springs. Up to 2"
But depends what the jeep has stock.

Hope I covered every thing

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Old 11-23-2011, 08:34 PM   #3
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33's will fit. You could get new wheels with the proper BS for less then you would the spacers needed to fit the tires.
Maybe I'm not looking at the correct product. I'm seeing spacers for around $100-$150 a pair. That seems a lot cheaper than a set of wheels. What am I missing?

Also, the leveling kits I'm seeing are just spacers that sit under the springs. Is that correct?

I also saw someone stating that I could get a set of the 4-door springs and use that as a cheap upgrade option. This was the first I'd heard of this so don't know much about it yet.
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:48 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn

Maybe I'm not looking at the correct product. I'm seeing spacers for around $100-$150 a pair. That seems a lot cheaper than a set of wheels. What am I missing?

Also, the leveling kits I'm seeing are just spacers that sit under the springs. Is that correct?

I also saw someone stating that I could get a set of the 4-door springs and use that as a cheap upgrade option. This was the first I'd heard of this so don't know much about it yet.
Ok you want good spacers like spidertrax.
Fail on my part--but still $200+ I'd rather put that towards better wheels.

You leveling kit is similar to a BB but levels
the jeep instead. A LK and BB are just spacers that sit on TOP the factory coils.

4 door/ 2 door is doesn't matter. If some one has a set, ask them the spring rate.
The last 2 numbers on the tag is all you need to know. 19/60 is what some have said to be the stiffer spring. Keep in mind , it all depends on what the jeep has for stock springs. Ex you have 18 front and
57 rear, the HD upgrade will do little for the jeep. Check yours out when you have a chance.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:00 PM   #5
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Ok, gotcha on the spacers. I agree, it's better to put the $200 towards better wheels, otherwise I'll end up w/ spacers in the end that I won't have any use for. I guess that'll come down to how long i'd go w/ my stock wheels.


Maybe when I read about the 4-door springs, I confused that w/ spring rate. I do recall someone talking about going with a 19/60 setup.

I found a tag on one of my front springs. I must be looking the wrong spot because the last 2 numbers I'm seeing make no sense.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Ok you want good spacers like spidertrax.
Fail on my part--but still $200+ I'd rather put that towards better wheels.

You leveling kit is similar to a BB but levels
the jeep instead. A LK and BB are just spacers that sit on TOP the factory coils.

4 door/ 2 door is doesn't matter. If some one has a set, ask them the spring rate.
The last 2 numbers on the tag is all you need to know. 19/60 is what some have said to be the stiffer spring. Keep in mind , it all depends on what the jeep has for stock springs. Ex you have 18 front and
57 rear, the HD upgrade will do little for the jeep. Check yours out when you have a chance.
I agree with keeper. You can get some great wheels for $4-500ish.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:09 PM   #7
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sorry, meant kjeeper!
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:10 PM   #8
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Letters haha

14's

In that case you would benefit from a 19/60

19/60's were determined to be the best when ordering from Mopar.
Member daggo66 has a good right up.

I do not think any of our jeeps come stock with 19/60. 18/58 is common and would work for you.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:11 PM   #9
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sorry, meant kjeeper!
I like Jkeeper
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:12 PM   #10
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I agree with keeper. You can get some great wheels for $4-500ish.
That price for a full set? If so, I guess I need to price some wheels. The last time I bought new one's was for my '84 Camaro in high school.

They were around $200-$250 each. With my needing 5 for the Jeep I was expecting to have to pay some big bucks.

I guess the diff is the wheels I bought for the Camaro w/ chromed out....for the Jeep I'm looking at black steel.

Thanks for the info.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:20 PM   #11
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Have you browsed the stickys?
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Letters haha

14's

In that case you would benefit from a 19/60

19/60's were determined to be the best when ordering from Mopar.
Member daggo66 has a good right up.

I do not think any of our jeeps come stock with 19/60. 18/58 is common and would work for you.
Ah yes. I think it was daggo I saw in another post talking about 19/60s.

So we're thinking 19/60s and a leveling kit? As for the kit I've seen both AEV and Teraflex mentioned (I think).

Still keep in mind that I'm popping a winch and new bumpers on at some point. I want to make sure this approach keeps me going in the right direction and that I don't paint myself into a corner and end up having to redo something.

Aren't you glad you got drawn into this?
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:23 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Have you browsed the stickys?
I did do some searching on the forums before posting. I didn't find anything that directly answers everything I wanted to know in one post and I didn't want to hijack someone else's post.

That's why I started a new one.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:23 PM   #14
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Nice jeep btw.

You have pics?
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:27 PM   #15
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Nice jeep btw.

You have pics?
You're asking me?
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn

I did do some searching on the forums before posting. I didn't find anything that directly answers everything I wanted to know in one post and I didn't want to hijack someone else's post.

That's why I started a new one.
As long as the question is relevant, Who gives a hoot

As far as your lift stiffer springs will def benefit but going to cost around $100-$200.

You should just get yourself a good BB like AEV or Tara. Contact a vender a better price and free shipping in most cases.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:36 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Barmanvarn

You're asking me?
Yep
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:43 PM   #18
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Yep
Sorry. My rig is basically stock so I didn't want to assume you were complimenting me and look like a jackass. LMAO

Thanks!

I don't have any action shots, here is one from the dealer and another (my fave) of me and my dad. Going mudding this weekend so I'm hoping to get some good pics from that.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:53 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barmanvarn

Sorry. My rig is basically stock so I didn't want to assume you were complimenting me and look like a jackass. LMAO

Thanks!

I don't have any action shots, here is one from the dealer and another (my fave) of me and my dad. Going mudding this weekend so I'm hoping to get some good pics from that.
I remember that pic haha kewl.
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Old 11-23-2011, 09:55 PM   #20
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Thanks. And if I haven't said it already, thanks for the responses thus far. Has already helped me to not feel like a moron.
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:12 PM   #21
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Good luck
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:19 PM   #22
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I popped over to Daggo's thread on the 19/60s. Make a LOT more sense to me now.

Armed w/ this information, looks like I would hold off on the 19/60s until I get the 33"s. Otherwise I'd be sitting a bit too high for my current tires and I feel it would look at bit "odd".

So I'm thinking I could go w/ this order of install:
1) Leveling kit
2a) New 33"s and new wheels (if budget can manage)
2b) New 33"s and existing wheels w/ spacers (if not option 2a)
3) Set of 19/60s and new shocks
4) New bumpers (needs step 3 first to handle extra weight best without loosing to much height)

Am I on the right track?
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:26 PM   #23
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I popped over to Daggo's thread on the 19/60s. Make a LOT more sense to me now.

Armed w/ this information, looks like I would hold off on the 19/60s until I get the 33"s. Otherwise I'd be sitting a bit too high for my current tires and I feel it would look at bit "odd".

So I'm thinking I could go w/ this order of install:
1) Leveling kit
2a) New 33"s and new wheels (if budget can manage)
2b) New 33"s and existing wheels w/ spacers (if not option 2a)
3) Set of 19/60s and new shocks
4) New bumpers (needs step 3 first to handle extra weight best without loosing to much height)

Am I on the right track?
Sounds okay to me. Except this part:

2a) New 33"s and new wheels (if budget can manage)
2b) New 33"s and existing wheels w/ spacers (if not option 2a)

New 33's w/your existing wheels (17's, 18's?) are gonna cost you as much, and quite likely more when you include GOOD spacers, than if you went with a smaller rim size (stick w/4.5" backspacing and you'll be fine). I went with 16" rims for just this reason. The MB 72's are a very popular size in 15". Jump on Discount Tires Direct (or wherever you like) and look at tires in 17" size, then 15" size...you'll see a significant price difference.

Just my .02.

Love the planning, though. Think a lot, buy once.
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:39 PM   #24
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what he said
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:42 PM   #25
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what he said
Can I throw down one of these......and still say, "Whattup yo"?
Or does Wavey not play dat?
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:44 PM   #26
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Sounds okay to me. Except this part:

2a) New 33"s and new wheels (if budget can manage)
2b) New 33"s and existing wheels w/ spacers (if not option 2a)

New 33's w/your existing wheels (17's, 18's?) are gonna cost you as much, and quite likely more when you include GOOD spacers, than if you went with a smaller rim size (stick w/4.5" backspacing and you'll be fine). I went with 16" rims for just this reason. The MB 72's are a very popular size in 15". Jump on Discount Tires Direct (or wherever you like) and look at tires in 17" size, then 15" size...you'll see a significant price difference.

Just my .02.

Love the planning, though. Think a lot, buy once.
You bring up an interesting point that I was planning to ask and was: If I were to get tires and wheels at the same time, what is the thought process behind picking one wheel size over another?

What brand are the MB 72s?

I hopped over to the tire site. In your example, what size would I be looking at? 33 ?? 17/15

EDIT: Disregard, you're talking about wheels, not tires. D'oh!
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Old 11-23-2011, 10:54 PM   #27
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Ok, looks like wheels are a lot cheaper than I had originally thought. Looks like I'd likely go w/ whatever everyone is saying and just get tires and wheels all in one go.

I guess I'd have to research both wheels and tires at the same time to make sure I get a set that works together (wheels size, width, bolt pattern, etc)

I know want 33"s, and it appears that going to a 15" wheel would save me money on wheel cost (unless someone can tell me a specific reason to go w/ a specific wheel size), so now I'd have to figure out what width to go with.

Anyone have some sage-like advice on what width to go with?
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:01 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Barmanvarn View Post
You bring up an interesting point that I was planning to ask and was: If I were to get tires and wheels at the same time, what is the thought process behind picking one wheel size over another?

What brand are the MB 72s?

I hopped over to the tire site. In your example, what size would I be looking at? 33 ?? 17/15

EDIT: Disregard, you're talking about wheels, not tires. D'oh!
I just mean that any given tire is going to dramatically increase in price for each rim size increase.

For example, a 33" tire for a 15" rim is going to cost you $50-$60 less than the same brand of 33" tire for a 17" rim. (That price diff is off the top of my head, but probably fairly close). So you'd save $250 or more buying new tires and smaller rims.

Ditch the spacers and you save another several hundred, which should pretty much cover the tires/rims altogether by now. Then find a set of stiff takeoff springs (like in Daggo's post) for a couple hundred...you're set.

Not sure I explained that very well.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:05 PM   #29
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Ok, looks like wheels are a lot cheaper than I had originally thought. Looks like I'd likely go w/ whatever everyone is saying and just get tires and wheels all in one go.

I guess I'd have to research both wheels and tires at the same time to make sure I get a set that works together (wheels size, width, bolt pattern, etc)

I know want 33"s, and it appears that going to a 15" wheel would save me money on wheel cost (unless someone can tell me a specific reason to go w/ a specific wheel size), so now I'd have to figure out what width to go with.

Anyone have some sage-like advice on what width to go with?
Recent thread on rim widths. Oh, and your Wrangler uses a 5x5 bolt pattern (5x127 mm, as some sites list it).

Rim width range and 33" tires
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:22 PM   #30
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Thanks Wolf. Great info.

You explained it just fine. I guess the part that threw me was that the tire size went down w/ rim size. I would think that a specific tires size at, say, 15" would cost more than the same size tire at 17" since it would actually require more rubber to make.

I can see wheels going down in price relative to diameter, but not tires (in regards to the wheels size it take). Seems counter-intuitive to me.

And thanks for the link to the thread on widths and the bolt pattern info.

Wow, I've gotten almost all of this cleared up in an evening.

I've told everyone to just give me Quadratec gift cards for Christmas so I know where all of that money will be going.

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