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Old 08-08-2010, 10:21 AM   #1
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Newbie Purchase pricing/model Question

Been shopping for a jeep! Never owned one tho my wife had a Jeep Cherokee with a 4.0 liter engine 20 years ago! Have a second home in the mountains and have had to give up on getting to waterfalls and such in NC because our two cars cannot cut the gravel roads/rutted roads/trails. A jeep is definitely in order. Will not use it as a daily driver and will probably keep it in the mountains 95% of the time. I want to be able to go anywhere and cope with bad weather and hills. I also want the storage space/flexibility in the unlimited. I don't care about power stuff, stereo, etc., but I do want to go anywhere I want to.

Anyway, I figure that a sport version is all I need. The pricing I have been seeing in the Atlanta area is that I can get any model $3k off MSRP. Occasionally, I see a larger discount on a color I don't want. I have been quoted $23,160 for a base 4x4 Rubicon Unlimited with automatic transmission. Also, dealer will throw in 17" rims and same tires as on Rubicon for $900 more (don't like look f 16" wheels and stock tires). Good deal? Rubicon with auto will cost me $30,625 from same dealer and not sure if worth the additional money for my purposes. Not sure if I should hold out for more off sticker since '11s are around the corner. Used prices I have seen seem high and in many cases are higher than new! Also, thinking about Goodyear Duratracs instead of the Rubi mud terrain tires. Any thoughts on any of this appreciated. Thanks!

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Old 08-08-2010, 10:53 AM   #2
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Jeeps resale value is pretty high, discounts for '10s may not be that great. You said it would be in the mountains most of the time, stick to your game plan. I have crank windows in my 2010 Unlimited Sport, manual door locks, etc. The only thing I am going to add is cruise control, really missed it on my last trip; also helps it run more efficiently on long trips in my view; no constant fluctuations of RPMs and speed. Hate having to keep my foot in one position that long. Got a soft top and love it, have no need nor a place to store a hard top.

No advantage in having 17" rims, in fact it seems that everyone opts for 15" or 16" rims. You can fit some huge tires on the smaller rims and it looks really mean that way. Advantage to smaller rims/bigger, wider tires is the bead on the tire makes better contact with rim; especially if you have to air down to get through some deep mud. Also more sidewall gives you more protection against rocks, etc. Stick with the stock rims, get bigger, wider tires; very big and you will need a body lift to clear chassis parts.

Pay $23k for a jeep and spend the extra $7k on mods ... you will have a lot of fun doing it, see amazing results, and get the performance you want.

P.S. I learned most of this stuff yesterday from GroundHawg on this forum. If I'm wrong about anything, he will correct me I'm sure.

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Old 08-08-2010, 11:13 AM   #3
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Quote:
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Jeeps resale value is pretty high, discounts for '10s may not be that great. You said it would be in the mountains most of the time, stick to your game plan. I have crank windows in my 2010 Unlimited Sport, manual door locks, etc. The only thing I am going to add is cruise control, really missed it on my last trip; also helps it run more efficiently on long trips in my view; no constant fluctuations of RPMs and speed. Hate having to keep my foot in one position that long. Got a soft top and love it, have no need nor a place to store a hard top.

No advantage in having 17" rims, in fact it seems that everyone opts for 15" or 16" rims. You can fit some huge tires on the smaller rims and it looks really mean that way. Advantage to smaller rims/bigger, wider tires is the bead on the tire makes better contact with rim; especially if you have to air down to get through some deep mud. Also more sidewall gives you more protection against rocks, etc. Stick with the stock rims, get bigger, wider tires; very big and you will need a body lift ($2500) to clear chassis parts. If you go with bigger tires your speedometer will need to be adjusted (new gear or computer adjustment,) you will also lose power (this is normal, and about $1200 to fix) and have to change gears in your rear axle. Also have to make sure that doesn't void your warranty on the drivetrain. If Jeep does everything, make sure your warranty is intact. So, stock rims, bigger tires, proper body lift, rear axle gears, warranty. Mean machine!

Pay $23k for a jeep and spend the extra $7k on mods ... you will have a lot of fun doing it, see amazing results, and get the performance you want. Or put on bigger "off road" tires (biggest allowed without a lift) stick with stock rims, and your done. No body lift, just a gear change, and you would still have to have the speedometer adjusted.

P.S. I learned most of this stuff yesterday from GroundHawg on this forum. If I'm wrong about anything, he will correct me I'm sure..
Edited Version
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Old 08-08-2010, 02:43 PM   #4
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Hmmmm, had not considered keeping small rims and getting bigger tires. Would I need to "regear" with 17" rims and 32" tires? Wouldn't that get me the same off road benefits of smaller rims/bigger tires without having to regear? Or would regearing have other benefits? I know that tires for 16" rims are less pricey, but I suspect that I will be putting so few miles on this jeep that new tire expense will be fairly minimal. Thanks for the response/thoughts. Keep em coming!
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Old 08-08-2010, 04:34 PM   #5
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Stock tires on my jeep were 30s. If you go to 32s your speedometer will be off and you will lose some power. Changing rim size doesn't matter, you will still have 32s with a 17" or even a 20" rim, the "mounting hole" in the tire gets larger and you end up with less sidewall, less inflation adjustability, and harder ride. Roughly ... 16" rims 32" tire equal 8" tall sidewalls. Some jeepers like large rims for the look, but off roaders seem to like 15" steel with 34(or larger)x12(or larger) tires. Of course I could be off, I'm sure someone here will chime in and set us both straight
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Old 08-08-2010, 04:50 PM   #6
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Extreme Rock Crawlers use 15" rims and beadlocks, so they can run LARGE tires at very low air pressure and get a WIDE footprint for slickrock traction (GRIP)-

Normal (??) off-roaders buy 15" wheels because the tires are cheaper and they like the looks (??)

If you stay 32" and BELOW, the dealer can "Flash" your ECM to readjust the speedometer, If you go LARGER 33/34+++, you have to get your own "Chip" Superchip/AEV Procal and do your own resetting !!

I use the AEV Procal Module, it adj the speedo and gets rid of the TPMS "chime Light"

15" wheels need either wheel spacers and/or 3.75" Back Space to clear the JK Calipers

Ain't nothing simple anymore !!

Good luck

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Old 08-08-2010, 05:15 PM   #7
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I'd just save some $ and keep the stock 16" Alloy wheels and swap out larger MT tires on them..

I don't think its the stock "Wheels" that you don't like, its the smaller, bald weak stock tires.
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:08 PM   #8
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That makes a lot of sense. Am debating about tires too--M/T tires versus something like Goodyear Duratrac. I will not put a bunch of miles on the jeep so tires will probably be there a while, which is why I am obsessing about getting it "right" (more or less) to start with. I am sure I will encounter some snow/ice in the winter and think I have read that the A/T tires like the Duratrac will do better on that while giving up not a whole lot on the trail to the M/T tires (like those that come with the Rubicon). Sounds like I can go with 16" wheels, but will want to go with 32" tires--don't like the stock tires on the Sport for sure! Thanks for all the feedback.
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Old 08-08-2010, 08:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine1 View Post
The pricing I have been seeing in the Atlanta area is that I can get any model $3k off MSRP. Occasionally, I see a larger discount on a color I don't want.
This changes monthly, and especially if they've given you a quote already may be hesitant to keep the same deal once you walk out the door.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine1 View Post
I have been quoted $23,160 for a base 4x4 Rubicon Unlimited with automatic transmission. Also, dealer will throw in 17" rims and same tires as on Rubicon for $900 more (don't like look f 16" wheels and stock tires). Good deal? Rubicon with auto will cost me $30,625 from same dealer and not sure if worth the additional money for my purposes.
This is confusing. All rubicon's are 4x4, so don't be confused that it's worth more. Also, all rubicon's include 17" wheels, so there's no need to add $900, that's bull. A base Rubicon Unlimited Auto starts at $33,625. That $23,160 number appears to be a sport package that they offered to give you bigger tires/wheels for ($900 for that is good, they're probably selling it at cost and buying back the factory tires/wheels). If this is the case, I hope you're aware of the differences between the sport and the rubicon. With the exception of the axles (30 -> 44's on front, lockers, and sway bar), you could potentially be buying the base sport package which includes a different suspension system than all others (I think it's coils for the base sport, becomes pressurized air at all other levels, or something like that, I'd have to double check).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Luvwine1 View Post
Not sure if I should hold out for more off sticker since '11s are around the corner. Used prices I have seen seem high and in many cases are higher than new! Also, thinking about Goodyear Duratracs instead of the Rubi mud terrain tires. Any thoughts on any of this appreciated. Thanks!
Unless the dealers in your area have a plethora of Rubicon's, once you walk away you may not have the chance again. They'll sell it tomorrow to someone willing to pay an extra $500.
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Old 08-08-2010, 10:23 PM   #10
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Sorry if what I posted was confusing, but no, what I meant to say is that they will do $3k off msrp on any wrangler. The base sport was $23,160 including automatic transmission. Then they will add five 17" wheels and the same tires as on a Rubicon for $900. Obviously, the Rubicon comes with these and the price I quoted was MSRP on a Rubicon less $3k. Not sure the roughly six large more for the Rubicon is worth it for my applications as I will not be doing extreme rock climbing but just want to be able to drive on trails/gravel/dirt roads with ruts and such and also to deal with mountains in bad weather. I am happy to be educated tho which is why I posted my reasons for others to tell me yeah or nay. Also, am happy to have feedback on the pricing as I like to know I am being treated fairly and, if not, will be delighted to have ammo to help me negotiate a better deal. Thanks again for all the help!

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