NHTSA Complaint Ticking Head 2012 Wranglers Recall - Page 3 - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 07-19-2012, 10:40 AM   #61
Newb
 
rgray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
And let's not forget that it is in the dealer's best interest to do this repair with the customer paying for it, not Chrysler. If they can string you along until the warranty runs out they might make twice as much money doing the repair.
The shop labor costs are the shop labor costs (at least in the industry I work in). And the part cost is the part cost. The dealership does not/should not care who pays for the repair as long as its paid. Whether the money comes out of the customers pocket or Chrysler's pocket the dealership gets it money.

Why is it in the dealers best interest to string customers along until the warranty runs out? The dealer must know that customers have the option of going to any authorized repair location to get the fix completed, not the one that sold the vehicle, they would literally be throwing money away by not performing the repair. Why would any dealership say, I do not want your money/business, please give it to my competitor?

rgray is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 10:53 AM   #62
..shall not be infringed!

WF Supporting Member
 
Up Hill Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Up the hill, CA Northcoast
Posts: 4,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgray View Post
Why would any dealership say, I do not want your money/business, please give it to my competitor?
Because the nearest competitor is more than 150 miles and 3 hours away.

Not everyone lives where an alternate dealer is within a reasonable distance. Sometimes ya' just gotta work with what ya' got.

Perhaps someone knowledgeable can set me straight, but I am under the impression that warranty work is not paid at the same rate as customer paid accounts.

__________________
2012 JKU Rubicon
Sahara Tan
Auto
3.73


Up Hill Bill
Up Hill Bill is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 10:58 AM   #63
Jeeper

WF Supporting Member
 
sandbaja's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: San Diego, CA.
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Up Hill Bill View Post
Because the nearest competitor is more than 150 miles and 3 hours away.

Not everyone lives where an alternate dealer is within a reasonable distance. Sometimes ya' just gotta work with what ya' got.

Perhaps someone knowledgeable can set me straight, but I am under the impression that warranty work is not paid at the same rate as customer paid accounts.
Bill, most corporations use internal transfer rates for warranty work which is much lower than customer rates. Also you have what I call a warranty bucket. X dollars per unit are placed into an account which is then drawn on as warranty work is completed.
__________________
2012 JKU Rubicon -Natural green pearlcoat

Nvergiveup
sandbaja is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 11:03 AM   #64
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgray View Post
The shop labor costs are the shop labor costs (at least in the industry I work in). And the part cost is the part cost. The dealership does not/should not care who pays for the repair as long as its paid. Whether the money comes out of the customers pocket or Chrysler's pocket the dealership gets it money.
The industry you work in is obviously not auto service. A shop, be it a dealer or independent, gets paid for their labor based on a labor time listed in a labor guide. The guide will list two different labor times for any given job, one for customer pay and one for warranty. The warranty time is almost always less than the customer pay time and is often only half of the customer pay time. The warranty time is never higher. If you were a shop or technician, would you rather get paid for 16 hours of your time or 8 hours of your time for a given repair? The same applies for parts. On a warranty job they get reimbursed for their cost for the part. If the customer is writing the check the dealer pays their cost for the parts and then marks it up to MSRP for the customer. For this cylinder head job the difference in doing it under warranty vs. customer pay is probably $1000-2000, which is all profit straight into the dealer's pocket.

Quote:
Why is it in the dealers best interest to string customers along until the warranty runs out? The dealer must know that customers have the option of going to any authorized repair location to get the fix completed, not the one that sold the vehicle, they would literally be throwing money away by not performing the repair. Why would any dealership say, I do not want your money/business, please give it to my competitor?
The dealer knows this, but the average car owner has no clue what their rights are. Many that do still take their car to the dealer for service and repair because they feel it is the best place to get a factory trained expert to work on their car. It is also getting harder and harder to find independent shops that will work on vehicles with advanced techology because the training and tools to do it properly are often cost prohibitive and the inside knowledge the dealers have is unavailable. They readily send business away more frequently than you would expect. Using our example above, would you as a shop owner/manager prefer to have your tech do a job you can get paid 8 hours of labor on that really takes 16 hours, or would you rather pass on that job so you can get 16 hours of labor from somewhere else? A manager is going to do what's best for his bottom line any time he possibly can. That means they aren't going to take a job they get paid 8 hours on if they could get 16 hours of pay on a different job that takes the same amount of time.

Dealers don't make money doing warranty work, they lose money. They want to do maintenance work and repairs that the customer is paying for because that is where the cash comes from.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 12:17 PM   #65
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kearneysville, WV
Posts: 3,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by rgray View Post
The shop labor costs are the shop labor costs (at least in the industry I work in). And the part cost is the part cost. The dealership does not/should not care who pays for the repair as long as its paid. Whether the money comes out of the customers pocket or Chrysler's pocket the dealership gets it money.

Why is it in the dealers best interest to string customers along until the warranty runs out? The dealer must know that customers have the option of going to any authorized repair location to get the fix completed, not the one that sold the vehicle, they would literally be throwing money away by not performing the repair. Why would any dealership say, I do not want your money/business, please give it to my competitor?
Lest forget if a dealer doesn't take care of a customer, that customer can certainly go elsewhere. Dealerships don't make the majority of their money selling cars, but fixing them. The Service Department is the bread and butter.

You are correct that a warranty is just Chrysler paying the dealership for repairs instead of you, but here's the rub; service departments have "labor books" in which their pay is based. For instance, if your car needs a new engine and the labor book says it's a 10 hour job, that dealership only gets paid for 10 hours, even if the repair takes them 20 hours. If this happens to be the case with these "ticking head" issues, that dealership is actually losing a lot of money by tying their techs up with these repairs.

Anyway, if a dealer is smart, they will take care of their customers because you can bet your ass the dealership will eventually recoup their losses from that happy customer through their service department.
Con Artist is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #66
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
Lest forget if a dealer doesn't take care of a customer, that customer can certainly go elsewhere.
There is absolutely no reason why someone should have to go anywhere but the closest dealer to get warranty work done on a vehicle. Chrysler has a legal obligation to the customer and the dealer accepts the obligation to work on Chrysler's behalf as their agent. And there is absolutely no reason a dealer should be entitled to prioritize or otherwise favor retail repairs over warranty work. They choose to accept those responsibilities when they go into business as the agent of the manufacturer, and they are obligated to perform according to those responsibilities.
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 01:51 PM   #67
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,199
Unfortunately this is the real world.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:01 PM   #68
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
There is absolutely no reason why someone should have to go anywhere but the closest dealer to get warranty work done on a vehicle. Chrysler has a legal obligation to the customer and the dealer accepts the obligation to work on Chrysler's behalf as their agent. And there is absolutely no reason a dealer should be entitled to prioritize or otherwise favor retail repairs over warranty work. They choose to accept those responsibilities when they go into business as the agent of the manufacturer, and they are obligated to perform according to those responsibilities.
....because we all know that every dealer out there is completely honest and would never do anything unethical or illegal.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:04 PM   #69
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
....because we all know that every dealer out there is completely honest and would never do anything unethical or illegal.
People need to stand up for themselves instead of taking the path of least resistance. This is just my personal opinion, but if I get jerked around, my plan: call Chrysler, call the Better Business Bureau, call your state Attorney General's office, post (completely truthful) reviews on the internet, and let the dealer know about every last bit of it. If all that is worth jerking me around, so be it.
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:05 PM   #70
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
Unfortunately this is the real world.
See post 69. There are ways of making this "the real world" if you have a spine.
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:16 PM   #71
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
People need to stand up for themselves instead of taking the path of least resistance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
The dealer knows this, but the average car owner has no clue what their rights are.
And I will add that the average car owner has no clue that they are being jerked around in the first place.

Quote:
This is just my personal opinion, but if I get jerked around, my plan: call Chrysler,
Who may or may not care.

Quote:
call the Better Business Bureau,
Any reasonably intelligent dealer is a BBB member to avoid the BBB taking any action against them.

Quote:
call your state Attorney General's office,
Who has bigger problems to worry about than you telling them the dealer won't play nice.

Quote:
post (completely truthful) reviews on the internet,
Because everything you read on the internet is true. When I read a scathing review about something on the internet I typically blow it off as a nut with a chip on their shoulder.

Quote:
and let the dealer know about every last bit of it. If all that is worth jerking me around, so be it.
Because they care so much about what you think. Do you not know that people tell them this every day? It does nothing.

Even if you did all of those things you still have to prove that they are doing something with the intent of screwing you. Good luck with that. It doesn't matter what you know, it matters what you can prove. The average motorist couldn't prove in court what the address of the dealer service department is, never mind that they were maliciously misled into paying for a repair that they shouldn't have had to pay for. Do a search on this forum about warranty service being denied because of modifications. It happens every day, but you have to prove it to get results.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:24 PM   #72
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
And I will add that the average car owner has no clue that they are being jerked around in the first place.



Who may or may not care.



Any reasonably intelligent dealer is a BBB member to avoid the BBB taking any action against them.



Who has bigger problems to worry about than you telling them the dealer won't play nice.



Because everything you read on the internet is true. When I read a scathing review about something on the internet I typically blow it off as a nut with a chip on their shoulder.



Because they care so much about what you think. Do you not know that people tell them this every day? It does nothing.

Even if you did all of those things you still have to prove that they are doing something with the intent of screwing you. Good luck with that. It doesn't matter what you know, it matters what you can prove. The average motorist couldn't prove in court what the address of the dealer service department is, never mind that they were maliciously misled into paying for a repair that they shouldn't have had to pay for. Do a search on this forum about warranty service being denied because of modifications. It happens every day, but you have to prove it to get results.
I disagree completely. I know from first-hand experience that using leverage as I've suggested gets results.
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:24 PM   #73
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much

See post 69. There are ways of making this "the real world" if you have a spine.
I never have an issue and I never have to cry about it on the internet.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:25 PM   #74
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
I never have an issue and I never have to cry about it on the internet.
Yay for you.
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:26 PM   #75
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much

I disagree completely. I know from first-hand experience that using leverage as I've suggested gets results.
I always get results and don't have to go through any of that.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:28 PM   #76
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much

Yay for you.
Yup, when you really have a spine you don't get walked on to begin with.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:29 PM   #77
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
Yup, when you really have a spine you don't get walked on to begin with.
Hey it's the internet, don't be so modest. Tell us how big your package is too.
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:31 PM   #78
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much

Hey it's the internet, don't be so modest. Tell us how big your package is too.
Those that need to know already know.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:34 PM   #79
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
Those that need to know already know.
Must be awesome, tough, hung, and king of the Wrangler Forum JK section.
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:34 PM   #80
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Broken Arrow, OK
Posts: 2,305
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
I disagree completely. I know from first-hand experience that using leverage as I've suggested gets results.
And I know from first hand experience (from both sides of the service counter) that expecting that on a regular basis is living in fantasy land.
__________________
2012 Silver Sport S, Silver, 6 speed, soft top, 3.73s, LSD, PCG, Infiniti, deep tint windows, Pro Comp 1028 wheels, 33" Duratracs, Smittybilt bumpers and steps, KC fog lights, Mopar slush mats and fuel door.

Happiness is a belt fed weapon.
oilwell1415 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:37 PM   #81
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Kearneysville, WV
Posts: 3,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
There is absolutely no reason why someone should have to go anywhere but the closest dealer to get warranty work done on a vehicle. Chrysler has a legal obligation to the customer and the dealer accepts the obligation to work on Chrysler's behalf as their agent. And there is absolutely no reason a dealer should be entitled to prioritize or otherwise favor retail repairs over warranty work. They choose to accept those responsibilities when they go into business as the agent of the manufacturer, and they are obligated to perform according to those responsibilities.
I was talking about purchasing a vehicle.
Con Artist is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:38 PM   #82
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
And I know from first hand experience (from both sides of the service counter) that expecting that on a regular basis is living in fantasy land.
I'll say this:

(1) Some state AG's have a hotline you can call for consumer complaints. The state where my issue arose took the issue very seriously and contacted the shop on my behalf. YMMV depending on your state and the particulars of your situation.

(2) Online reviews - one review isn't going to do anything. But, if enough people post, it makes a difference. I've declined to do business with several different businesses, including auto dealerships, on the basis of multiple negative online reviews. And I am not the only one. These things are cumulative.
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 02:39 PM   #83
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
I was talking about purchasing a vehicle.
No worries, I misinterpreted you. I've enjoyed your posts so don't think it was intended in a bad way
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 03:43 PM   #84
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,199
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
I'll say this:

(1) Some state AG's have a hotline you can call for consumer complaints. The state where my issue arose took the issue very seriously and contacted the shop on my behalf. YMMV depending on your state and the particulars of your situation.

(2) Online reviews - one review isn't going to do anything. But, if enough people post, it makes a difference. I've declined to do business with several different businesses, including auto dealerships, on the basis of multiple negative online reviews. And I am not the only one. These things are cumulative.
You seem to have had many bad experiences dealing with various businesses. Taking a look at it from the outside, what would you say the common denominator is in all of your transactions?
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 03:56 PM   #85
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
You seem to have had many bad experiences dealing with various businesses. Taking a look at it from the outside, what would you say the common denominator is in all of your transactions?
The only major problem I've ever really had is the one I mentioned. I've written a few positive reviews of folks I've worked with.

You seem to have many unfavorable discussions with others on this forum. Taking a look at it from the outside, what would you say is the common denominator in these discussions?

Look dude. You're kind of a blowhard, and you're kind of a pot-stirrer. You have a good amount of technical knowledge that you sometimes share and that's valuable. But, at the end of the day, being the guy behind the keyboard always acting like a know-it-all and riling folks up on a forum is kind of sad.
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 04:29 PM   #86
Jeeper
 
redskinswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sahuarita, AZ
Posts: 327
Reviews on-line can work. I had an oil change coupon from Brake Masters that said the oil change was $5.00. I thought it was quite the deal and needed an oil change anyways so I went in. They flat out refused to honor it. I went home, took a picture of the coupon and put it on BrakeMasters Facebook page. Got a call from the district manager within 10 minutes with an offer to give me 3 free oil changes if I removed my comment. Reviews/complaints online can and do work.
__________________
2012 Silver 2-Door JK. Smittybuilt SRC Side Armor, KC Hilites, Rancho Sport 2 inch lift, 285x70x17 Duratracs. DeceptiJeep.
redskinswin is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 05:04 PM   #87
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Quote:
Originally Posted by redskinswin View Post
Yes I build bombs. No you cannot buy one.
Ammo troop?
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 05:13 PM   #88
Jeeper
 
redskinswin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Sahuarita, AZ
Posts: 327
Quote:
Originally Posted by i82much View Post
Ammo troop?
Nope, TOW missiles and other various fun products.
__________________
2012 Silver 2-Door JK. Smittybuilt SRC Side Armor, KC Hilites, Rancho Sport 2 inch lift, 285x70x17 Duratracs. DeceptiJeep.
redskinswin is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 05:16 PM   #89
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,580
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by redskinswin View Post
Nope, TOW missiles and other various fun products.
Tracking
i82much is online now   Quote Quick Reply
Old 07-19-2012, 05:46 PM   #90
Jeeper
 
chim-chim7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Lakeside, California
Posts: 694
If your Wrangler has a head problem after 5 years and you only have 40K on the ODO, trade it in one a new one. Dealer will give you a good price due to your low mileage. Problem solved.

chim-chim7 is offline   Quote Quick Reply
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Jeep Wrangler Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:35 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC