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Old 07-19-2012, 06:36 PM   #91
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The industry you work in is obviously not auto service. A shop, be it a dealer or independent, gets paid for their labor based on a labor time listed in a labor guide. The guide will list two different labor times for any given job, one for customer pay and one for warranty. The warranty time is almost always less than the customer pay time and is often only half of the customer pay time. The warranty time is never higher. If you were a shop or technician, would you rather get paid for 16 hours of your time or 8 hours of your time for a given repair? The same applies for parts. On a warranty job they get reimbursed for their cost for the part. If the customer is writing the check the dealer pays their cost for the parts and then marks it up to MSRP for the customer. For this cylinder head job the difference in doing it under warranty vs. customer pay is probably $1000-2000, which is all profit straight into the dealer's pocket.
I do not and have never worked at a car dealership in any capacity. I do however work in the automotive industry, just not passenger cars. When claims are paid we do not pay cost, we pay the mark up that is added every time someone else touches the part. I also understand the SRT times are set to govern how many labor hours at the shops labor rate Chrysler is charged for a particular repair and that they can make up whatever story they want to say they had whatever problem they need in order to get paid for the correct amount of time it took to pay the job. That's why shops have warranty writers, to make sure they get paid in full for the jobs....I'm sure bolts break off all the time and need drilled out and the hole retapped.

Where I work and where I worked previously, we have technicians that are timed while they perform said repairs and that is how the SRTs are set so that shops do not get screwed (I don't work for Chrysler so maybe they don't do this). I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I also wouldn't say it doesn't go the other direction as well, I have friends who used to work as mechanics, and have been told shops will put technicians that can do head jobs in less time than that of the SRT to work on all the head jobs, or tranny jobs, or *insert repair* because they make more money that way. I know our dealerships and distributors make money on warranty repairs, but I also recognize they make a whole lot more on non-warranty repairs.

I'm not trying to argue, this has got me pretty interested in the topic. I'm going to investigate this further when I get back to work. I did not realize there are two labor books and two parts costs for dealers. I'll have to ask my old mechanic friends tomorrow if they saw this sort of thing when they were techs. I already like to do my own maintenance and knowing that I'll get charged from the more expensive book is the way it will go down if I ever take it into a shop, just makes me want to roll up my sleeves even further so I can get my own hands dirty where the labor is free.

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Old 07-19-2012, 09:36 PM   #92
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The only major problem I've ever really had is the one I mentioned. I've written a few positive reviews of folks I've worked with.

You seem to have many unfavorable discussions with others on this forum. Taking a look at it from the outside, what would you say is the common denominator in these discussions?

Look dude. You're kind of a blowhard, and you're kind of a pot-stirrer. You have a good amount of technical knowledge that you sometimes share and that's valuable. But, at the end of the day, being the guy behind the keyboard always acting like a know-it-all and riling folks up on a forum is kind of sad.

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Old 07-19-2012, 09:39 PM   #93
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:41 PM   #94
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No worries, I misinterpreted you. I've enjoyed your posts so don't think it was intended in a bad way
No worries, and thanks for the compliment.

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If your Wrangler has a head problem after 5 years and you only have 40K on the ODO, trade it in one a new one. Dealer will give you a good price due to your low mileage. Problem solved.
^ This.

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Originally Posted by i82much View Post
The only major problem I've ever really had is the one I mentioned. I've written a few positive reviews of folks I've worked with.

You seem to have many unfavorable discussions with others on this forum. Taking a look at it from the outside, what would you say is the common denominator in these discussions?

Look dude. You're kind of a blowhard, and you're kind of a pot-stirrer. You have a good amount of technical knowledge that you sometimes share and that's valuable. But, at the end of the day, being the guy behind the keyboard always acting like a know-it-all and riling folks up on a forum is kind of sad.
I'm sorry, that was just funny as hell.

Cut Daggo a break, he's not kind of a blowhard, he IS a blowhard! The most fascinating aspect of it all is he KNOWS it!
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Old 07-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #95
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No worries, and thanks for the compliment.



^ This.



I'm sorry, that was just funny as hell.

Cut Daggo a break, he's not kind of a blowhard, he IS a blowhard! The most fascinating aspect of it all is he KNOWS it!


Get it right, I'm an a$$hole, not a blowhard.
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Old 07-19-2012, 10:00 PM   #96
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What is a blowhard ? Don't say Daggo66 either
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:19 AM   #97
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What is a blowhard ? Don't say Daggo66 either
Taken from Dictionary.com | Find the Meanings and Definitions of Words at Dictionary.com.

blow-hard

   [bloh-hahrd] Show IPA
noun Slang . an exceptionally boastful and talkative person.


See? Daggo66.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:28 AM   #98
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Originally Posted by con artist

taken from dictionary.com | find the meanings and definitions of words at dictionary.com.

Blow-hard

   [bloh-hahrd] show ipa
noun slang . An exceptionally boastful and talkative person.

See? Daggo66. :d
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:37 AM   #99
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Taken from Dictionary.com | Find the Meanings and Definitions of Words at Dictionary.com.

blow-hard

   [bloh-hahrd] Show IPA
noun Slang . an exceptionally boastful and talkative person.


See? Daggo66.
Boastful? We'll see how funny you are next week.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:07 AM   #100
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Boastful? We'll see how funny you are next week.

Seriously, I can't wait for next week. It's gonna be awesome to meet everyone and will be a lot of fun!

I have a feeling I won't be very funny, I'm going to be the "greenest" person there when it comes to off-roading. I'll be the guy holding everyone up.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:14 AM   #101
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You'll be fine and will have a blast.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:24 AM   #102
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You'll be fine and will have a blast.
I hope so! I just ordered myself a set of ACE rock rails. HOPEFULLY I get them before next week and get a chance to install them!
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Old 07-20-2012, 09:32 AM   #103
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I do not and have never worked at a car dealership in any capacity. I do however work in the automotive industry, just not passenger cars. When claims are paid we do not pay cost, we pay the mark up that is added every time someone else touches the part. I also understand the SRT times are set to govern how many labor hours at the shops labor rate Chrysler is charged for a particular repair and that they can make up whatever story they want to say they had whatever problem they need in order to get paid for the correct amount of time it took to pay the job. That's why shops have warranty writers, to make sure they get paid in full for the jobs....I'm sure bolts break off all the time and need drilled out and the hole retapped.
I'm a little confused....are you saying the dealer would make things up to add to the bill to make sure they got paid what they wanted? I don't think I ever got paid to fix a broken bolt unless it was broken when it came through the door and we knew it in advance.

Quote:
Where I work and where I worked previously, we have technicians that are timed while they perform said repairs and that is how the SRTs are set so that shops do not get screwed (I don't work for Chrysler so maybe they don't do this).
That is how the times are determined. However, they aren't necessarily indicative of reality. I got to see a little bit about how these were done at a training event once. When the tech started the job the car was already on the rack with the wheels off and every tool he would need was laid out neatly on the workbench in front of the car in the order they would be needed. Not exactly how it really works. In the real world you've got 30 minutes in a car before you ever touch it with a tool. It is rare that a tech will beat the book on a complex job the first time out, and may never be able to do so.

Quote:
I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I also wouldn't say it doesn't go the other direction as well, I have friends who used to work as mechanics, and have been told shops will put technicians that can do head jobs in less time than that of the SRT to work on all the head jobs, or tranny jobs, or *insert repair* because they make more money that way. I know our dealerships and distributors make money on warranty repairs, but I also recognize they make a whole lot more on non-warranty repairs.
If you've got the personnel that is exactly how you would do it. I was the only tech in the shop I worked at, so it all landed on me. If I had one tech that could knock out a job significantly faster than other techs of similar experience it would make me question the quality of his work. There is something to be said about a dealer doing the same jobs over and over and getting good at them. The see the same stuff all the time. An independent won't. I suspect the number of independent shops that will ever see a 3.6 cylinder head replacement is fairly small for lots of reasons.

Quote:
I'm not trying to argue, this has got me pretty interested in the topic. I'm going to investigate this further when I get back to work. I did not realize there are two labor books and two parts costs for dealers. I'll have to ask my old mechanic friends tomorrow if they saw this sort of thing when they were techs. I already like to do my own maintenance and knowing that I'll get charged from the more expensive book is the way it will go down if I ever take it into a shop, just makes me want to roll up my sleeves even further so I can get my own hands dirty where the labor is free.
There aren't two books, there are two different labor times in the same book: one for warranty work and one for customer pay. You can probably call your local Autozone and have them show you this in Alldata.

One bit of caution for doing your own work. If you dive into a job like changing a head on the 3.6 and get halfway in and decide you can't handle it you will end up spending the same amount of money to fix it as if you had just taken it to the dealer in the first place. Example: A plug change on a Ford truck with the 5.4 2V engine books at about 3.5 hours and the plugs are about $7 each. It's a $400 job. The customer declines the job because it looks easy and successfully gets 6 or the 8 plugs done. He brings it back for us to finish because he can't get the last two and expects it to cost him $90 because he did the other 6 and provided the two plugs for us to change. F that. It's $350 because the last two plugs are 90% of the work and now we aren't making money on parts. It's even worse if you bring in a puzzle for the tech to put back together.
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Old 07-20-2012, 01:56 PM   #104
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I'm sorry, that was just funny as hell.

Cut Daggo a break, he's not kind of a blowhard, he IS a blowhard! The most fascinating aspect of it all is he KNOWS it!
Yeah I mean I only know what I see here but ... glad you got a chuckle out of it.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:14 PM   #105
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Yeah I mean I only know what I see here but ... glad you got a chuckle out of it.
Well, I'll be wheelin' with him next week, so I'll let ya know the truth about Daggo.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:25 PM   #106
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Get it right, I'm an a$$hole, not a blowhard.


That's Mr, A$$hole. Give respect where respect is due.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:31 PM   #107
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True, my wife reminds me all the time!

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