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Old 01-13-2010, 11:45 AM   #1
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No diesel for Wrangler

Article published January 13, 2010 - Toledo Blade

No diesel for Wrangler - not yet, Jeep CEO says

Jeep brand CEO Michael Manley, shown in a Wrangler Islander, says there are no plans to offer the Wrangler with a diesel engine in North America. But he added he has learned 'to never say never.'

DETROIT - The Jeep Wrangler won't get a diesel engine in North America in 2011, as Chrysler Group LLC had implied when it laid out its five-year business plan on Nov. 4. At least not yet.

Instead, Wranglers in North America will likely receive Chrysler's new Pentastar V6 engine when its powertrain is refreshed next summer. All Jeep Wranglers are built at the Toledo Jeep Assembly complex.

Jeep enthusiasts were excited to learn last year that the original SUV would receive a diesel variant in North America. Though diesel fuel costs more, diesel engines offer greater fuel economy and greater torque, important for off-roading enthusiasts.

"We have no plans at the moment for diesel Jeeps in North America, although one of the things I've learned in this business is to never say never," said Michael Manley, president and chief executive officer of the Jeep brand. "I wouldn't rule it out, but specifically on Nov. 4, we were commenting on diesel in Europe."

Mr. Manley said Chrysler intends to keep the "Jeep DNA" in Jeep vehicles so as to guard the reputation of the Wrangler.

"This vehicle is really the icon of the brand. It's the first vehicle that comes into everybody's mind, and it has huge, huge importance to us," he said. "What we really want to do with it is to make sure it stays the icon of the brand, and I think for us, when we listen to our customers, we get a range of feedback" asking for improved powertrain and more refinement.

Mr. Manley said that the automaker intends to continue with a series of limited-production special editions of the Wrangler during 2010, following up on the Islander and Mountain editions of the vehicle that Chrysler rolled out for this year's North American International Auto Show in Detroit.

The special editions, along with interior improvements to be introduced this summer and powertrain improvements slated for next year, are to help grow sales of the vehicle.

It celebrates the 70th anniversary of its design this summer.

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Old 01-13-2010, 11:50 AM   #2
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Those teases!!!

....bastards....

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Old 01-13-2010, 12:40 PM   #3
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An optional deisel with a really strong low to mid-range torque range in a Rubicon would be a formidible vehicle off the showroom floor... Too bad they won't build it yet.
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Old 01-13-2010, 12:52 PM   #4
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I notice that a diesel in a jeep gets a lot of attention here at WF. So, a question? I would guess that whatever diesel engine used would have to be extremely lightweight, correct?

I think a diesel would be cool, but after putting 300,000 miles on a Dodge 4x4 pickup with the Cummins in it, I see a particular problem with diesel + jeep. The front axle of the truck was at 4,000 pounds. It would, of course, go anywhere except off road. Mud? Soft ground? Forget it. No way to get wheel speed to throw mud out of the tires, if you even managed anything before sinking down to the axle. Any rocking meant at least one broken U-joint because of the huge torque load. No "regular" wrecker could pull it out once stuck.

This would be a good thing for a jeep? Maybe out in the rocks, where torque and no rpm's are stunning. Am I wrong thinking this? That a diesel engine is just too heavy and the lack of ability to get instant wheel speed out of it to empty the tire tread means a jeep that won't go in the mud??
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:05 PM   #5
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they already produce a jeep JK with a 4 cyl diesel engine... they just dont make them here in the states!... well that sucks.

id like to know how the new pentastar engine will compare to the current 3.8L though...

and the d44 is not as heavy as your dodge axle (from guestamation i have no real numbers here) and the fact that your diesel is V8? or v10? would definately be much heavier than a 4cyl diesel. so the deisel would be just fine in the mud or sand or snow or rocks....

i think JP did a test drive on the new 07 jeeps back in the day and they actually got to test a deisel instead of the v6 and it did quite well stock...IIRC
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:20 PM   #6
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Diesel Wranglers available in the EU

The standard Wrangler engine in the UK is a 2.8 DOHC 4-cylinder Common-Rail Diesel (CRD) pumps out 174 bhp @ 3800 rpm and 302 lb/ft of torque (339 lb/ft with automatic gearbox).

I believe that they are not available here due to the "EPA standards" (a non-elected bunch of civil servants who answer to no one -- but, I think that may be about to change, especially in light of recent developments concerning global warming being exposed as a fraud)!
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:46 PM   #7
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I believe that they are not available here due to the "EPA standards" (a non-elected bunch of civil servants who answer to no one -- but, I think that may be about to change, especially in light of recent developments concerning global warming being exposed as a fraud)!
There're not available here because a panel of suits doesn't believe that consumers will buy them.
The emissions thing was licked.
They did their demographic research based on two pricepoints and the buying public failed on both. They were a paltry $1700 and $1200.
This is what my buddy at DC told me last year when I bugged him about it anyway.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:49 PM   #8
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Diesel JK in England

I've got a JK diesel in Cumbria, England - it puts out about 174 bhp and is really quite rapid on the road - it tows well and is good off road, despite having 'stock tyres' - I get about 28 mpg most of the time. I know you guys in the US love your big petrol engines, but the JK with the diesel in it is great.
Regards to you all, Johnny.
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Old 01-13-2010, 01:57 PM   #9
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Johnny ---- we'll be trading our MINI Cooper S for the diesel when available.
Cheers.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:28 PM   #10
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i dont like johnny... he owns my jk...

hows about you toss that diesel across the pond so i can have a go at it?? eh?
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:54 PM   #11
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I've got a JK diesel in Cumbria, England - it puts out about 174 bhp and is really quite rapid on the road - it tows well and is good off road, despite having 'stock tyres' - I get about 28 mpg most of the time. I know you guys in the US love your big petrol engines, but the JK with the diesel in it is great.
Regards to you all, Johnny.
Would that 28 mpg be a US gallon or an Imperial gallon? Even if it is a US gal, it is not as good as I would have thought.
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by yj-genral View Post
they already produce a jeep JK with a 4 cyl diesel engine... they just dont make them here in the states!... well that sucks.

id like to know how the new pentastar engine will compare to the current 3.8L though...

and the d44 is not as heavy as your dodge axle (from guestamation i have no real numbers here) and the fact that your diesel is V8? or v10? would definately be much heavier than a 4cyl diesel. so the deisel would be just fine in the mud or sand or snow or rocks....

i think JP did a test drive on the new 07 jeeps back in the day and they actually got to test a deisel instead of the v6 and it did quite well stock...IIRC

The Cummins is a 360 inch (I think that's the size) straight six. Didn't think about the axle, though. Good point. And Johnny says his runs great. So, guess I need to rethink this. I'd guess 28 mpg would be about right, stock. My Dodge was getting 17 mpg stock. Went to a K&N and a straight pipe and get 20 mpg. Long highway only trips are 25 and above. But, my old Cummins came with no sensors, controls, nothing. Don't know about the newer 4 valve ones.
Thanks, all. Think I'll yell at Chrysler as if that will do any good.......
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Old 01-13-2010, 04:16 PM   #13
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Well this is a big shock (sarcasm) Fuel econly would not be any better and the cost would be too much!
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:36 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David III View Post
I notice that a diesel in a jeep gets a lot of attention here at WF. So, a question? I would guess that whatever diesel engine used would have to be extremely lightweight, correct?

I think a diesel would be cool, but after putting 300,000 miles on a Dodge 4x4 pickup with the Cummins in it, I see a particular problem with diesel + jeep. The front axle of the truck was at 4,000 pounds. It would, of course, go anywhere except off road. Mud? Soft ground? Forget it. No way to get wheel speed to throw mud out of the tires, if you even managed anything before sinking down to the axle. Any rocking meant at least one broken U-joint because of the huge torque load. No "regular" wrecker could pull it out once stuck.

This would be a good thing for a jeep? Maybe out in the rocks, where torque and no rpm's are stunning. Am I wrong thinking this? That a diesel engine is just too heavy and the lack of ability to get instant wheel speed out of it to empty the tire tread means a jeep that won't go in the mud??
I had an 03 Cummins dually and it would roast the tires on pavement. no problem getting instant wheel speed and my mileage was about the same as yours. With all my gear loaded it weighed in at around 9 grand.
The Cummins is an industrial engine stuffed into a pick up so it's a bit over built and could be lightened considerably for a passenger vehicle application.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
I've got a JK diesel in Cumbria, England - it puts out about 174 bhp and is really quite rapid on the road - it tows well and is good off road, despite having 'stock tyres' - I get about 28 mpg most of the time. I know you guys in the US love your big petrol engines, but the JK with the diesel in it is great.
Regards to you all, Johnny.
Many of us would kill for a diesel engine in a Wrangler. The U.S. market was hurt seriously in the 80's by GM's sad attempt to convert gas engines to diesel. The engines were under powered, filthy pieces of crap that left a bad and lasting impression on folks. New diesel technology has come a long long way from those horrid days.
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Would that 28 mpg be a US gallon or an Imperial gallon? Even if it is a US gal, it is not as good as I would have thought.
Double current mileage? sounds pretty good to me.

I can't believe the stupidity of this announcement, this decision is a perfect example of the raging insanity that has killed the U.S. auto industry. Brain dead ass hats that have no clue about the real world being put in decision making positions based on their ability to flap their gums to the right tune. God I hate morons.
The Wrangler just screams for a freaking diesel, it would be the perfect candidate for a diesel.
I wish I were rich, I'd buy one of the dying lines and build Jeep clones with diesels and own the gods forsaken market. I'd build a Wrangler clone, an updated Willys wagon clone and a half ton pick up clone all with diesels and put these brainless wonders out of business.



I feel better now.
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Old 01-13-2010, 07:53 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shenandoah View Post
Would that 28 mpg be a US gallon or an Imperial gallon? Even if it is a US gal, it is not as good as I would have thought.
if his 28 gal is imperial, that comes out to roughly 24 US gallons, and i would say that is still pretty good compared to what the current 3.8 is getting
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Old 01-14-2010, 06:18 AM   #16
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I wish I were rich, I'd buy one of the dying lines and build Jeep clones with diesels and own the gods forsaken market. I'd build a Wrangler clone, an updated Willys wagon clone and a half ton pick up clone all with diesels and put these brainless wonders out of business.
im in partner when do we get started
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:19 AM   #17
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im in partner when do we get started
Did you ever see an ICON? They'll slap a diesel in it for you.
ICON

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Old 01-14-2010, 07:53 AM   #18
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Did you ever see an ICON? They'll slap a diesel in it for you.
ICON
Yep, for a paltry $145,480 they'll set you up in one with a diesel. Their diesel must have gold lined cylinders and valves made of silver.
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:00 AM   #19
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yeh icon is quite expensive... they just came out with a new willys inspired line cj3b for the money minded. for only $50k their cheapest vehicle yet!

although quality is their #1 priority and all their bodies are aluminum not steel and everything is hand built and im guessing those guys get paid pretty well as well... still cool but out of normal pricerange...

if the 2.8 CRD is what we would get anyways. has anyone come out with a kit to swap the 2.8l crd liberty engine over to the JK?
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:06 AM   #20
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or the mercedes v6 diesel that is already legal in the states?
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Old 01-14-2010, 08:08 AM   #21
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im in partner when do we get started
As soon as we can come up with about 10 million to develop business plan, hire engineers to design the line up, start lining up parts suppliers and start courting the real money...
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Did you ever see an ICON? They'll slap a diesel in it for you.
ICON

That looks interesting and their lineup is a lot like what I have in mind but the difference is I would want a nationwide network of dealerships for customer support. The ability to mass produce in order to bring costs down to a point where it would actually be competitive with a base model Jeep and get a enough units out in service so that the public can see the benefits of a high torque, high efficiency diesel in an SUV, commuter, soccer mommobile. That's the only way diesels will gain the public support necessary to make them more available in other vehicles.

What really grinds my ass about this announcement from Jeep is they already know how wrong it is. All they have to do is look at what happened when they released the Liberty with a diesel, they sold far more than they anticipated. There were waiting lists to get one.
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Old 01-14-2010, 09:05 AM   #22
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That sucks!! Were going to trade in the vw touareg and a diesel 4 door wrangler was my first choise!! owell, bad move for jeep!!!!!
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Old 01-14-2010, 02:35 PM   #23
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Reply to mileage query on diesel JK from Johnny

Quote:
Originally Posted by shenandoah View Post
Would that 28 mpg be a US gallon or an Imperial gallon? Even if it is a US gal, it is not as good as I would have thought.
The 28 mpg is Imperial not US. Consumption isn't as good as I expected, but on the positive side it doesn't really drop below that much when you drive it hard - but then I can't really better it even if I drive like the engine is made of chocolate !

Johnny
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Old 01-16-2010, 10:38 AM   #24
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Just keep rubbing it in Johnny.
I bought mine with the intent of having it forever but dang, if a diesel was available and I could afford it.........

Though finding diesel gas is a pita, with the little gas tank on the jeep, I can see myself doing alot of cussing.
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Old 01-16-2010, 12:50 PM   #25
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I believe there is more to the story we don't know about. I don't believe this issue is related to this statement....."Mr. Manley said Chrysler intends to keep the "Jeep DNA" in Jeep vehicles so as to guard the reputation of the Wrangler."... I think we need to look into the sourcing of these diesel engines... Who is going to supply them...?
We have NO source in the USA..It has to be Fiat, another EU OEM (think Mercedes) will not be "eager" to do business with Fiat..Just an "opinion"
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Old 02-07-2010, 04:35 PM   #26
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Bmw powered jeep diesel

So fella's I also own a 2008 BMW 335xi coupe...which is a inline 6 twin turbo producing 300HP 300TQ with a simple piggy back chip it gets 419 HP and 439 TQ.
well BMW just came out with a Diesel version of the same engine boasting 289 HP 426TQ (before any mods) sounds like a perfect swap canidate
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Old 02-08-2010, 09:59 AM   #27
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I would like to know what interior improvments they are making for 2011.

So it sounds like the Pentastar is coming NEXT summer... not this one. OK.

280hp will be very nice. You will be close to 300hp with a little help.

Now how many times have you said to urself,,, what this wrangler needs is a 300hp motor. Plus better mpg. Your going to have it soon!!!!!!!! Thats the best news.

Well im going to miss the Pentastar boat,,, but maybe catch up with a desiel.

Diesels dont sell here, cause they last too long, and get better mpg. There is too much money to be made selling GAS.

I also heard a blip about the epa on that jessie ventura tv show.. Along with this other group of people that really run the world... forget thier name... but it is interesting,, what other reason are they really giving as to why we dont have more disels here? And are you buying it????

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