Now it's death wobble... - Page 2 - Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today



Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 12-19-2012, 09:25 AM   #31
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
Me.
Six is offline   Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:27 AM   #32
Jeeper
 
clvnmcd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 317
clvnmcd is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six View Post
Me.
Any luck getting the DW taken care of?

__________________
------------------------------
2012 JKU Rubicon / 2.5" Teraflex Spring Lift / 315/70/17 Duratracs on 17x9 ATX Artillery / Rockhard Front Bumper / Warn M8000 Winch / Expedition One Rear Bumper / Rockhard Evap Relocation / AFE Cat Back Exhaust
clvnmcd is offline   Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 09:33 AM   #33
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by clvnmcd View Post
Any luck getting the DW taken care of?
I may try and look at it today. I don't have a lot of time with work and this morning I woke up feeling like road kill. If I leave work early I'm going to go home and try and look at it later.
Six is offline   Quote
Old 12-19-2012, 10:00 AM   #34
I do my own stunts.

5-Year WF Supporting Member
WF Supporting Member
 
yomondo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 2,935
yomondo is on a distinguished road
I want to add in response to the comments saying that your Jeep is too new for this or that to be the problem. The fact is that you experienced death wobble twice at 70mph, and that in itself can cause enough damage to any of the possible culprits to where you may now have multiple problem areas. Anything is fair game at this point IMO. Go through the check list and check everything.

Bad alignment, bad caster, unbalanced tires, tire pressure, etc. would not be the cause for death wobble, but you do want to get those dialed in correctly, not only for better handling but also to reduce wear on components that WILL cause death wobble.

A new, beefier steering stabilizer will only mask the problem, but it may help reduce the intensity of future occurrences of death wobble and reduce further damage. When I had death wobble, I only experienced the full violent shaking when I removed my steering stabilizer. With the steering stabilizer on, it was manifested as only a small shimmy.

Good luck.
__________________
But enough about me. Let me tell you about my Jeep.
Blk 09 2Dr Rubi | TF 3" lift | 35" MTRs | Fox Shox | TF Rear Speedbumps | JKS Trackbars | EVO Axle Sleeves and C Gussets | ARB Diff Covers | Shrockworks Bumpers and Rock Rails | Synergy Ball Joints and Tie Rod | Warn 9.5ti | sPOD | Superchips | MyGig LockPick | Front/Rear Cameras | Dual Optima Yellow Tops | HID Headlights and Fogs | Front/Rear Aux Lights | VisionX Rock Lights | Cobra 29 LTD | 4' FireStick | TrekArmor Seat Covers
yomondo is offline   Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 06:13 PM   #35
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
My pinion is at 91.5-92 degrees meaning my caster is at 4.5-5 degrees. Visual inspection showed one possible culprit; there may be wear around the lower track bar bolt. I won't be able to take things apart until tomorrow or Sunday, so ill be able to visually inspect it then. I'm going to replace all the bolts with the correct sized ones and I lowered tire pressure from 35 to 33.
Six is offline   Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 06:14 PM   #36
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
And my axle appears to be dead on measuring from tires to spring perches.
Six is offline   Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 06:25 PM   #37
Jeeper
 
MackInBlack's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: East of a land far far away
Posts: 38,061
MackInBlack is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six View Post
My pinion is at 91.5-92 degrees meaning my caster is at 4.5-5 degrees. Visual inspection showed one possible culprit; there may be wear around the lower track bar bolt. I won't be able to take things apart until tomorrow or Sunday, so ill be able to visually inspect it then. I'm going to replace all the bolts with the correct sized ones and I lowered tire pressure from 35 to 33.
Track bar bolts and where they go through the bracket seem to be the most common causes
__________________
Phil loves plastic jeeps and colour matched tops
MackInBlack is offline   Quote
Old 12-20-2012, 06:38 PM   #38
WF Moderator

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 50,289
kjeeper10 is on a distinguished road
Hold up. Where did you measure pinion? Would 92* = 8* caster. Pinion pointing down 4* from stock ?

0 = 6
+2 = 4 (stock)
-2 = 8

Or has my day been too long lol
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 05:41 PM   #39
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
I took my RK track bar out and wanted to make sure it's adjusted right. I was attempting to unscrew the jam nut on the frame side and the entire bar is spinning. WTF?

I'm thinking this could definitely be the culprit here. Unfortunately RK is closed until Monday...

Can I drive it out of my garage and into my driveway do I can get my bike in and out of the garage without the track bar on it? Or should I put it back on.

It's not supposed to spin like that, is it?
Six is offline   Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 05:52 PM   #40
WF Moderator

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 50,289
kjeeper10 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six
I took my RK track bar out and wanted to make sure it's adjusted right. I was attempting to unscrew the jam nut on the frame side and the entire bar is spinning. WTF?

I'm thinking this could definitely be the culprit here. Unfortunately RK is closed until Monday...

Can I drive it out of my garage and into my driveway do I can get my bike in and out of the garage without the track bar on it? Or should I put it back on.

It's not supposed to spin like that, is it?
Yes you can drive slow.

Are the threads stripped ? What is spinning ?
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 06:48 PM   #41
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Yes you can drive slow.

Are the threads stripped ? What is spinning ?


I guess the jam nuts weren't tight enough. The lower track bar hole is ovaled. I'm going to see if the local shop can help fix that bracket and get everything squared away. The other shop I went to must not have tightened everything. The 9/16 bolts have play in the lower track bar bracket. I don't have the tools to tighten everything. Even with the bar in a bench vise on a bench covered in tools I'm still pulling the bench instead of torquing the bar. I know it's not at 200 ft/lbs.
Six is offline   Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:21 PM   #43
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
I have a 2.5" lift. The bracket says for 3" and up. That's an issue?
Six is offline   Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:31 PM   #44
Jeeper
 
SilverSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 26,921
SilverSport is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to SilverSport
Have the shop weld a heavy washer on each side of the bracket to fix the ovaled out holes. Nothing to stop you from using Loc-Tite on the jam nuts.
__________________
"Own a Jeep and own a piece of history."

"The Hunter is not concerned with the opinion of the Bear or the Wolf."
SilverSport is offline   Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 07:36 PM   #45
WF Moderator

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 50,289
kjeeper10 is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverSport
Have the shop weld a heavy washer on each side of the bracket to fix the ovaled out holes. Nothing to stop you from using Loc-Tite on the jam nuts.
Yep

I know they make replacement HD brackets that keep the Tb in the stock location.
Mine is used with a drag link flip. track bar and drag link get raised 3"

The washers will work well for a easy fix.
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote
Old 01-11-2013, 10:40 PM   #46
Jeeper
 
planman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 356
planman is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six



I guess the jam nuts weren't tight enough. The lower track bar hole is ovaled. I'm going to see if the local shop can help fix that bracket and get everything squared away. The other shop I went to must not have tightened everything. The 9/16 bolts have play in the lower track bar bracket. I don't have the tools to tighten everything. Even with the bar in a bench vise on a bench covered in tools I'm still pulling the bench instead of torquing the bar. I know it's not at 200 ft/lbs.
Yep. Jam nuts not tight enough and it stretches, or even strips, the threads in the tube. That would give you problems and contributed to the ovaling of the bracket holes.

The good news is that you've found the initial problems. You still want to inspect the rest of the components to see if anything else has been damaged.
__________________

His: 07 JK Rub 2 dri, 6 spd, 5.38s in Currie RJ 60s, 4.5" Trailmaster long arm with 99" wheelbase, 40" Xterrains on ATX Slabs, River Raider cage, RIPPd
Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
planman is offline   Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 06:27 AM   #47
Jeeper
 
tiger3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Yokohama, Japan
Posts: 330
tiger3 is on a distinguished road
I had a similar experience. I checked everything on Planman's list, but everything seemed fine. Finally I was looking at my tires and noticed the spot where a balance weight used to be. Had that tire rebalanced and no more wobble when I hit bumps at high speed.
__________________
Regards,
Brad
tiger3 is offline   Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 11:07 AM   #48
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
This isn't a small wobble. It's full on DW. I have to slow down to 5-10 mph on the interstate for it to stop.
Six is offline   Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 11:54 AM   #49
WF Moderator

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
kjeeper10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 50,289
kjeeper10 is on a distinguished road
Have you checked/replaced TRE's and balljoints ?

We all know the TB is usually the source of DW. But what else could be contributing to it?

I bet you have other things going on.
kjeeper10 is offline   Quote
Old 01-12-2013, 01:23 PM   #50
Jeeper
 
SilverSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 26,921
SilverSport is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to SilverSport
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Have you checked/replaced TRE's and balljoints ?

We all know the TB is usually the source of DW. But what else could be contributing to it?

I bet you have other things going on.
^This.

Six - maybe you mentioned it already, but did you do the full inspection that planman has in the DW thread?
__________________
"Own a Jeep and own a piece of history."

"The Hunter is not concerned with the opinion of the Bear or the Wolf."
SilverSport is offline   Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 01:16 PM   #51
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
Is my track bar still good or is it shot?

I got wobble again today but the bar looks like it's solid. I'm taking it and the LCAs off to add red lock tite and tighten them as much as I possibly can with what tools I have.

I'm going through planman's thread after that and seeing if anything else need to be replaced.

Someone said something about checking bushings with a screw driver. How do I do that? It looks like the only way to accurately inspect them is to remove the bushings from the end of the track bar and the LCAs.

Edit: Also, while I have the LCAs out, should I adjust them for more caster? They're set almost at the 4.whatever % that Jeep normally recommends. Could this also be a contributing factor?
Six is offline   Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 02:35 PM   #52
Jeeper
 
Matador's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,607
Matador is on a distinguished road
Really silly question here Six, but did you check to see that the jam nuts on the control arms and trackbar were locked on and not loose? Alignment shops will sometimes "forget" to lock them because on the track bar you have to do it while they are off. This will cause some serious issue and destroy your heim joints. I would also check out those joints and make sure that they didn't blow a seal and loose their grease.
__________________
-Lou
'12 JK Rubicon
Matador is offline   Quote
Old 01-14-2013, 02:51 PM   #53
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matador View Post
Really silly question here Six, but did you check to see that the jam nuts on the control arms and trackbar were locked on and not loose? Alignment shops will sometimes "forget" to lock them because on the track bar you have to do it while they are off. This will cause some serious issue and destroy your heim joints. I would also check out those joints and make sure that they didn't blow a seal and loose their grease.
The trackbar was and I tightened the other night. I'm going to get a 9/16" drill bit, red lock tight, and a grease gun tonight. The LCAs appear tight still and haven't moved.

The supension feels like it wants to move horizontally when it hits a bump. Is this normal?
Six is offline   Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 08:32 AM   #54
Jeeper
 
planman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Billings, MT
Posts: 356
planman is on a distinguished road
If you torque the bolts to 125 ft lbs, Loctite isn't needed or desired.

You just want to retorque after every major wheeling trip and at every oil change interval.

When your torque spec has backed off, more often than not it is because the metal has fatigued, the threads on the bolt have stretched, or the bushing end has compressed. Loctite then messes with your subsequent torque specs.

Running it on wheel lugs with Spidertrax hubcentric wheel spacers at 95 ft lbs is different than running it on a suspension component bolt at 125 ft lbs that gets twisted and absorbs significant lateral vibration.
__________________

His: 07 JK Rub 2 dri, 6 spd, 5.38s in Currie RJ 60s, 4.5" Trailmaster long arm with 99" wheelbase, 40" Xterrains on ATX Slabs, River Raider cage, RIPPd
Hers: 08 JK Rubi 4 dr, auto, 5.38s, Teraflex LA w/ORE/King coilovers, 37" STTs on WE beadlocks, RIPPd
planman is offline   Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 10:10 AM   #55
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
Quote:
Originally Posted by planman View Post
If you torque the bolts to 125 ft lbs, Loctite isn't needed or desired.

You just want to retorque after every major wheeling trip and at every oil change interval.

When your torque spec has backed off, more often than not it is because the metal has fatigued, the threads on the bolt have stretched, or the bushing end has compressed. Loctite then messes with your subsequent torque specs.

Running it on wheel lugs with Spidertrax hubcentric wheel spacers at 95 ft lbs is different than running it on a suspension component bolt at 125 ft lbs that gets twisted and absorbs significant lateral vibration.
Loctite will be going on the track bar jam nuts and LCA jam nuts, not the bolts that go through the brackets and bushing ends.
Six is offline   Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 11:15 AM   #58
Six
Jeeper
 
Six's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Durtburg, WV
Posts: 1,204
Six is on a distinguished road
It was at 1/8th in the last time it was done, but it may be out after my latest adventures. I had to postpone the stuff until tomorrow. I ended up at Home Depot but didn't have my debit card so I'm going tomorrow after work and doing the wrenching then.
Six is offline   Quote
Old 01-15-2013, 12:51 PM   #59
Jeeper
 
SilverSport's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 26,921
SilverSport is on a distinguished road
Send a message via Yahoo to SilverSport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Six View Post
Loctite will be going on the track bar jam nuts and LCA jam nuts, not the bolts that go through the brackets and bushing ends.
__________________
"Own a Jeep and own a piece of history."

"The Hunter is not concerned with the opinion of the Bear or the Wolf."
SilverSport is offline   Quote
Old 01-17-2013, 10:12 AM   #60
Jeeper
 
USMC 0369's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,114
USMC 0369 is on a distinguished road
Any news on this bro?

__________________


Death smiles at everyone...Marines smile back.
USMC 0369 is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Download our Mobile App

» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:11 PM.


User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC