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Old 08-07-2007, 08:42 AM   #1
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Off roading with a friend.....

His is a stock 2006 Wrangler Unlimited with 31's or 30's on it and mine is a 2007 bone stock "X" with street tires.

He was telling me that the new JK's have much better clearance that his 2006. Is that true? I couldn't tell by looking at the two next to each other.


He said his has a longer wheelbase...like about 8 inches.

Anyway we came to a point in the road where I said and thought I couldn't go on. Bigger boulders in the road and many drop offs. If I made it down I didn't think I could get back up the trail...at least not without a few mods and more experience.

I e-mailed him later and said I now know my Jeeps limitations. He wrote back and said he doesn't think of limitation in Jeeps. Which may be true depending how your is equipped.

Any thoughts and comments?

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Old 08-07-2007, 10:00 AM   #2
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Alot if not most of it has to do with the drivers skill. There were a few times I didn't think I could make it until my dad or buddy got out and spotted me and showed me where to go.

But of course a stock Jeep is gonna have some difficulties in some areas, but a lift and bigger tires is only going to increase those capabilities as well as the drivers.

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Old 08-07-2007, 10:42 AM   #3
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Old 08-07-2007, 11:54 PM   #4
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Woody...become one with the Jeep, trust it
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:34 AM   #5
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You guys are funny with this ZEN stuff.

You can't trust a vehicle...they will always let you down.
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Old 08-08-2007, 12:37 AM   #6
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You guys are funny with this ZEN stuff.

You can't trust a vehicle...they will always let you down.
No such thing as a bad vehicle, just bad owners.

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Old 08-08-2007, 01:30 AM   #7
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Old 08-08-2007, 02:14 AM   #8
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This weekend I drove a few places that I wouldn't have in any other vehicle I have ever owned, except a dirt bike. (and even then I think I would have been very careful) If it were not for being with someone who had experience (and lead the way - thanks Odhinn) I would have thought that it was impassible. I was in 4-low and nervous, and later found out that the leader wasn't even in 4 anything! Take some more trips with others with experiance, and make sure that you have the resources to be recovered, and, by all means trust your spotter! The most important - HAVE FUN! (WAY cheaper than therapy!)
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Old 08-08-2007, 06:05 AM   #9
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Thanks JJ your were great and have an awesome rig. I will admit I did put mine in to 4 hi a few times in the swampy areas and the creek crossing just to be safe. I know that area pretty well and have demolished a few axles and even tore off the bed of my old ranger out there. In my experience the trick to getting most rigs over obstacles is clearance and keeping as much rubber on the ground as possible. I know nothing about the JK's but offroading principles are the same in whatever vehicle you are in. The Wrangler has always been one of the most capable out of the box wheeler IMO. A jeep does have limitation but being one with your rig will allow you to feel the trail and react accordingly. The biggest obstacle any new wheeler faces is nerves.

Just to add, Texapple that thing really messed with me this morning. Not a good thing to stare at when waking up.
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Old 08-08-2007, 09:23 AM   #10
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For about the last 8 or 9 years, I have been a trail guide with The Jeep Jamboree program. During that time I have seen a lot of brand new jeeper's in bone stock jeeps do some great driving on the trails. In one group I had every thing from bone stock YJ's, Zj's, WJ's, TJ's KJ's, and a few with only slight lifts and bigger tires on the trail for two days. The transformation that take's place as they learn how to drive is great, stuff the first day that would cause the whole group to stop, get out of the jeep, walk up and look at the "Rock climb" was a second thought the next day or in some cases later on the 1st day.

Thus, the more you drive off-road you will see what your jeep can and can't do and your comfort level should go up. Now, the case where you felt the trail was too difficult for you, that's your call, its your jeep. Never be pressured into something you don't feel your skills or jeep can do, as that's usually when things go wrong. Start small and work your way up. But have fun doing it.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:35 PM   #11
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Sometimes it has nothing to do with learning or knowing how. A bone stock jeep has limitations. A 2 or 3 foot drop off is one of them. I am not talking an angled rock. I am talking a straight drop off. Without a lift and bigger tires to get back up...your stuck unless you are with someone with tow straps.

Speaking of tow straps...why would you need one if the Jeep has no limitations. The most experience drivers carry tow straps and jacks.

Sorry to be the devils advocate here...but I don't believe this ZEN stuff and being one with the jeep. The Jeep is my minion.

edit: Let me add I love this forum. It is full a great info and the post are way more friendly than another Jeep forum that will remain namelss. I love coming here and reading and lurking.
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:44 PM   #12
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Your right, I would not have attempted a 2' drop off either. Good call........
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Old 08-08-2007, 07:47 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody_k View Post
Sometimes it has nothing to do with learning or knowing how. A bone stock jeep has limitations. A 2 or 3 foot drop off is one of them. I am not talking an angled rock. I am talking a straight drop off. Without a lift and bigger tires to get back up...your stuck unless you are with someone with tow straps.

Speaking of tow straps...why would you need one if the Jeep has no limitations. The most experience drivers carry tow straps and jacks.

Sorry to be the devils advocate here...but I don't believe this ZEN stuff and being one with the jeep. The Jeep is my minion.

edit: Let me add I love this forum. It is full a great info and the post are way more friendly than another Jeep forum that will remain namelss. I love coming here and reading and lurking.
I think you make some very good points, however, the whole Zen thing is not to be taken too seriously. Mostly it's about knowing your Jeep better than anyone else. That includes its limitations as well as what it can do. Sorry if we freaked you out with our little ongoing Zen thing.
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Old 08-09-2007, 12:58 AM   #14
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I think you may be misunderstanding the zen thing, it's real.
There are drivers who look at and use their vehicle as a tool, it is nothing more than a machine that will get you you from point a to point b.
Then there are drivers that "feel" their vehicle, they are in tune with it, they know how to drive, what to do, how to react from all the subtle little signs their rig gives.
It's not something that can be taught or even effectively explained, it just is.

I've been training truck drivers for more than 15 years, I've seen dozens of both types. A zen driver can get through situations that will leave a tool driver a quivering mass of panic.
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skeeter View Post
I think you may be misunderstanding the zen thing, it's real.
There are drivers who look at and use their vehicle as a tool, it is nothing more than a machine that will get you you from point a to point b.
Then there are drivers that "feel" their vehicle, they are in tune with it, they know how to drive, what to do, how to react from all the subtle little signs their rig gives.
It's not something that can be taught or even effectively explained, it just is.

I've been training truck drivers for more than 15 years, I've seen dozens of both types. A zen driver can get through situations that will leave a tool driver a quivering mass of panic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cavediverjc View Post
Mostly it's about knowing your Jeep better than anyone else.
Jordan
My point exactly!!!
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Americans sleep safely in their beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do them harm...

Happiness is a Barrett M82A1 .50 caliber and a target at least a click out........

I come in peace. I didn't bring artillery. But I'm pleading with you with tears in my eyes, if you f**k with me, I'll kill you all.....
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Old 08-09-2007, 01:52 AM   #16
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I wasn't questioning your post, I was responding to this. I was just too lazy to quote and snip
Quote:
Originally Posted by woody_k View Post
Sorry to be the devils advocate here...but I don't believe this ZEN stuff and being one with the jeep. The Jeep is my minion.
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:34 AM   #17
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I didn't take anyone post as obnoxious, questioning or anything. It's was all good info.

The ZEN thing...I was just joshin' y'all and having a good time. Next time I encounter a drop off I will get out of the Jeep, burn incense, sit lotus style and use my mind to lift the Jeep up and over the drop off.

Seriously I understand the "seat of the pants" driving/flying thing. I am a Police pursuit driving instuctor and there are some things that cannot be taught. You can tell and explaine it and maybe they will understand. However none of that crosses over to off-roadin, at least for me right now...maybe soon when I get more experienced.

I asked my buddy what the trail is rated. He said a 4. I assumed it was a 4 out of ten. He said 4 out of 5. So for a newbie off-roader I did pretty good.

That same group we belong to are doing a Big Bear run in Oct. The post mentioning the run says "If you have an aversion to body damage then this run isn't for you." Needless to say I ain't going on that run. I do have an aversion to body damage...mine and the jeep's.!!!
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Old 08-09-2007, 08:53 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woody_k View Post
I didn't take anyone post as obnoxious, questioning or anything. It's was all good info.

The ZEN thing...I was just joshin' y'all and having a good time. Next time I encounter a drop off I will get out of the Jeep, burn incense, sit lotus style and use my mind to lift the Jeep up and over the drop off.
No no no, you're thinking of eastern zen, this is western zen, it's more Silvan glade, thin gauzy robe, flowers in the hair, candle light and a bit of a dead trout thing.
Quote:
Seriously I understand the "seat of the pants" driving/flying thing. I am a Police pursuit driving instuctor
Man would I like to get together with you on a closed course with a couple beater cars.
Quote:
and there are some things that cannot be taught. You can tell and explain it and maybe they will understand. However none of that crosses over to off-roadin, at least for me right now...maybe soon when I get more experienced.
Yep, now go forth and spread the zen grasshopper
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Old 08-25-2009, 01:53 PM   #19
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woody k a jeep will never let you down

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