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One source of noise - rubber seals rubbing against hardtop - anyone else?

12K views 49 replies 22 participants last post by  DallasRecon 
#1 ·
In all my attempts at quieting the cab of a noisy Jeep, I have been searching for this elusive squeak/creak that seems to be coming from where the driver's door meets the hardtop (freedom panel)...

Well, I finally found it. Where the door's rubber seal meets the hardtop is dry and clean, and when I hit bumps or uneven pavement, it causes a squeaking/creaking sound as the two surfaces rub together.

I put a tiny bit of oil on the seal to see if this was actually the case, and the oil silenced the noise instantly. Now I am looking for a rubber care product that would allow the seals to move against the hardtop without squeaking.

Which rubber conditioning product are you guys using and does it leave an oily film once it's applied???

Thanks for the input!
 
#3 ·
I figured it out by pulling on the freedom panel which reproduced the noise I was hearing while driving...
I am sure that treating the rubber seals with something slightly oily would solve this issue, by allowing them to move against the other surfaces without squeaking.

Now I just need to figure out what product will do that. :)

I saw two people mention that this product worked to silent squeaky seals: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004B8GTQG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I ordered some.
If it doesn't work I'll try the 303 stuff below.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T44D1R2/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Otherwise, I am just going to find an oil or grease that works. Maybe something made for rubber bushings...
 
#4 ·
For any rubber squeaks and rattles we use a chemical called Krytox (I work at Porsche). Whether its door seals, top seals, etc, it works awesome and solves it on the first application. It's what Porsche has recommended.
 
#5 ·
Its called seal itch in the industry - we use armorall.

Your seals are coated with an anti-squeak / freeze release coating at the supplier - it wears off over time. Many times it gets applied a bit too thin to start with and can cause issues with itch/squeak from the start. Spec is usually around 50-100 microns I believe... but its spray applied so sometimes there are light areas. We just recommend you armorall them occasionally if there are squeaks...

I'm a seal design engineer... ironically - we were bidding on the new JK replacement business... not sure if we got it or not.
 
#8 ·
I'm a seal design engineer... ironically - we were bidding on the new JK replacement business... not sure if we got it or not.

If you get the contract, I sure hope you take the job more seriously than the JK engineers. Far too many rain water leak issues from poor design.
 
#13 ·
Lol! Mine rarely does either... ;)

Not familiar with the product but a quick search for the ingredients shows that it uses morpholine as a wax like agent to give a gloss to fruits etc... so they probably use it to give a sheen back to trim pieces... it also contains butyl acetate as a solvent.

Armorall on the other hand uses water based silicone and no petroleum derivatives...

I don't see why either would harm your seals, although I think the Mothers would not be as slick and may actually case a "tick" as the waxy nature of the morpholine may cause the seals to stick to the door a bit. Once again - no idea based on experience, this is just a thought based on the ingredients.
Great answer, thanks... I'll try the rubbber protectant and armorall.
 
#15 ·
Armor all. Perfect. My 2010 just started creaking a bit, or maybe I just started noticing it since a friend of mine asked what was creaking. LOL. Gonna put some on the seals today.

Awesome timing.
 
#17 ·
Today, I took my freedom panels off and thoroughly cleaned all the seals and then applied the German Gummi Pflege conditioner...

I even applied some to the rubber bumpers on the hardtop that rest on the roll bar above the sound bar.

Honestly, I am little surprised at how faded and old looking some of the rubber was. Especially, considering I live in an extremely mild climate and garage the Jeep. Though I have been lucky to not have a single leak so far, so they must be doing their job! :)

I'll drive it a bit and report back about the difference in noise.
 
#22 ·
A high temp silicon grease would work just as good. There's one from Napa: 7651346 Sil-Glyde Silicone Lubricating Compound. I use it when I do brake jobs, on hoses, seals, etc.
 
#26 ·
I swear by Gummi Pfledge.

Three days after buying my Jeep, it rained and I had a small puddle on the passenger front floorboard.

I immediately ordered some Gummi Pfledge and applied it to all of the top and door seals. I havent had a leak since. Now, thats not to say maybe a top panel was over/under tightened. Or maybe my removing and reinstalling the top panels gave a better seal. Too many possibilities. But the germans swear by it for their rubber seal.

I dont know how often it should be reapplied, but I was thinking about doing it once a month. Heck, it only takes 5 minutes.
 
#34 ·
OK, what about rubbing, squeaking, creaking noises produced by the freedom top rubbing against non rubber surfaces? I tried lubing the rubber and feel convinced my noises are coming from hard surfaces.

Some sort of padded tape placed strategically on the tops?
 
#38 ·
I had a similar noise as described in the OP. I tried almost every means I could think of to quell the squeak, to no avail. I then discovered that the torx bolt on the top portion of the hardtop (the one that sits under where the freedom panel overlaps the hardtop) had come loose. A quick tighten with a torx wrench and the noise was gone. If the above methods fail, check to make sure your bolts are all snug.
 
#42 ·
I found another source of creaking... The rubber seal on the back side of the front windows makes noise when I hit certain bumps.

I think I am going to pull them off and use a little silicon to seal them against the door frame.

Otherwise, I think I almost have this little Jeep creak, rattle and squeak free! My goal is to have a noise free JK, despite hitting big bumps and playing heavy bass.
 
#43 ·
I had a creaking sound coming from the tailgate area when slowly driving over uneven surfaces i.e. backing out of my driveway, over the drainage culvert, and onto the road.
I cleaned all the back seals with Armor-All cleaning wipes and then applied 303. Creak gone.

I had a wind noise, not a whistle more of a whooshing, coming from the area where the front door meets the A-pillar. I cleaned and protected the door seals and that noise also went away.

Take care of your seals, folks!
 
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#44 ·
Ok, so I pulled the window seals off the doors and applied Gummi Pflege generously on the inside where they touch the the paint of the door frame.

With the windows closed or open, if you move the rubber back and forth you will hear it squeak against the paint... Basically, clean paint rubbing against dry rubber on the inner side of the seals.
 

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#45 ·
/Sealing engineer mode on
GAAAHHHH!!!! Dear god man!!! The horror...

Did you lube the inside of the glassrun retention channel - the part that holds (retains) the seal into the channel?

The way these work is there are small gripper feet at the base of the window seal (called a glassrun). These feet are designed to clip into a retention rib that is extruded in the metal channel they fit into. I just pulled mine to confirm.. They are made by a competitor of mine, Hutchinson Sealing. They are EPDM Rubber with TPV molds in the corners (Plastic with embedded rubber - Thermoplastic Vulcanizate).

You can apply lube anywhere EXCEPT on these feet or on the base of the seal.. If you do, there is a very good chance that in the winter you will pull the seal out of the channel when you roll down your window. The gripper feet rely on the relatively high Coefficient of Friction between the rubber and the paint.

A couple of general rules when dealing with seal itch (the squeaking sound they can tend to make).

You either want to 1) Make the seal move *with* the door or 2) Make the seal so slippery that it never sticks to the door.

In the case of glassruns, we generally go with number 1 as you want them to retain in the channel. However, as the rubber ages, the natural oils in the compound tend to propagate to the surface (sometimes giving the rubber a whitish haze) and can tend to make them squeak and not retain well. You can wipe these oils off and clean with alcohol or another cleaner that wont leave a residue. If you hear squeaking in your glassruns, I would recommend this as a first course of action - clean all the contact surfaces with alcohol and lint free cloth to restore the seals ability to grip the channel.

Dust and dirt also tend to lower the friction when seals get dirty (sortof acts like bearings)... you will know if you have dirt in your glassruns as you will hear a grinding scraping sound when the glass goes up.

I also noticed a lot of flock fibers on the backside - this is leftover from the process where they add the soft flock material that touches the glass - it isn't supposed to be on the back side and can be cleaned off with alcohol as I mentioned before - flock has a very low Coefficient of Friction and can hinder seal retention.
 
#49 ·
Perfect timing for me as well.. mine started squeaking a few weeks ago. It happened after a canyon run so I thought it was because I had rolled my window down just in time for a chunk of greasy mud to fly up and into my open window, getting the back of the window lip, and inside the track. I washed it out, and took a brush to get it out, but kept getting a squeak.

Finally had my son ride behind me and track it down, it's coming from the hardtop seals. I'm giving the Krylox a try I think.
 
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