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Old 09-27-2011, 11:54 AM   #1
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Opinions on Alignment and Slight Pull to Left

Hey all,

Just want to put this out and see what you all think.

Had a RK 2.5" lift installed along with Bilstein 5100 shocks and stabilizer, bumpers, winch, MT wheels and 35" Duratracs.

They of course had the alignment done and I am getting a slight pull to the left. There is no shimmy or vibrations, and no pull during braking or acceleration.

Some are saying it is a caster issue, others a camber issue, and some others say it is the Bilstein steering stabilizer.

I am open to your suggestions and recommendations.

Here hare the setting from the alignment. Measurements are in degrees and LEFT | RIGHT:

FRONT
Before After
Camber -1.0 | -0.4 -1.0 | -0.4
Caster 5.8 | 5.6 5.8 | 5.6
Toe 0.05 | 0.07 0.11 | 0.11
Total Toe 0.12 0.22
Steer Ahead -0.01 0.00


REAR
Before After
Camber -0.7 | -0.2 -0.7 | -0.2
Toe 0.12 | 0.08 0.13 | 0.08
Total Toe 0.19 0.21
Thrust Angle 0.02 0.03

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Old 09-27-2011, 11:58 AM   #2
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Check to see if this sounds like a fix: http://www.wranglerforum.com/f33/fro...ht-110061.html

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Old 09-27-2011, 12:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFHavens View Post
Hey all,

Just want to put this out and see what you all think.

Had a RK 2.5" lift installed along with Bilstein 5100 shocks and stabilizer, bumpers, winch, MT wheels and 35" Duratracs.

They of course had the alignment done and I am getting a slight pull to the left. There is no shimmy or vibrations, and no pull during braking or acceleration.

Some are saying it is a caster issue, others a camber issue, and some others say it is the Bilstein steering stabilizer.

I am open to your suggestions and recommendations.

Here hare the setting from the alignment. Measurements are in degrees and LEFT | RIGHT:

FRONT
Before After
Camber -1.0 | -0.4 -1.0 | -0.4
Caster 5.8 | 5.6 5.8 | 5.6
Toe 0.05 | 0.07 0.11 | 0.11
Total Toe 0.12 0.22
Steer Ahead -0.01 0.00


REAR
Before After
Camber -0.7 | -0.2 -0.7 | -0.2
Toe 0.12 | 0.08 0.13 | 0.08
Total Toe 0.19 0.21
Thrust Angle 0.02 0.03
Who are "they" "some" and "some others"? If "they" did the alignment, should you be asking them why is pulls to the left? Did "they" do a test drive after the alignment?
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:10 PM   #4
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Heh Heh, if "they" did an alignment-before and after the installation of a 2.5" lift and there was no "INDICATED" change in castor---

Either the alignment is wrong-or-there isn't over 1" of lift, in the front of the jeep !!

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Old 09-27-2011, 12:16 PM   #5
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daggo66, the alignment shop did do a test drive and did feel the slight pull left. I am stopping by there again today to see their experienced 4x4 guy and see what he says. He has a 2011 JK that is lifted and running 35s. I have read the others and some from posts on forums and some said that a good alignment fixed the issue and then other posts said that it was the steering stabilizer.

MTH: I just read that thread and had already been on Project-JK. According to two separate alignment shops my toe in was only .01 degrees different between them and within spec (.09-.12 degrees)
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:17 PM   #6
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JIMBOX, The before and after was after the lift was installed.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:22 PM   #7
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OK what are you driving ??


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JIMBOX, The before and after was after the lift was installed.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:27 PM   #8
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OK what are you driving ??




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Old 09-27-2011, 12:30 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RFHavens
daggo66, the alignment shop did do a test drive and did feel the slight pull left.
So why didn't they fix it?
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:31 PM   #10
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so, to partially hijack the thread, when I put on my lift (the old man emu 2.5 shocks and coils) I didn't do any alignment or anything, didnt even touch the steering. but I also didnt loosen the front trackbar to do the lift. In fact, the only thing I'm doing is to go get the wheels balanced since I bedlined them. Should I go in for an alignment or do anything? I mean the jeep feels fine, but i honestly can never tell how a car is tracking due to the heavily crowned roads near me. anything i should check for?
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:36 PM   #11
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-OK-thanx


Quote:
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:47 PM   #12
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So why didn't they fix it?
I think I may have gotten one of the guys who does not know Jeeps well or who knows. I just got off the phone with Rock Krawler and the tech said that in many cases, adjusting a bias to one side in the caster can fix the issue. I called the alignment shop and spoke to the rep I had yesterday and he apologized for the inconvenience. Before I could tell him what RK said he said his primary 4x4 guy said he can fix it with a caster adjustment which goes along with the RK tech I spoke with. Now I feel a little more confident in the shop, and will see how it comes out. It is nice that none of this it costing me anything as the shop that installed the lift is covering the costs. Appointment is on Friday afternoon, so I will update what the results are and the final fix (in my case anyway).
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:51 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by sneck View Post
so, to partially hijack the thread, when I put on my lift (the old man emu 2.5 shocks and coils) I didn't do any alignment or anything, didnt even touch the steering. but I also didnt loosen the front trackbar to do the lift. In fact, the only thing I'm doing is to go get the wheels balanced since I bedlined them. Should I go in for an alignment or do anything? I mean the jeep feels fine, but i honestly can never tell how a car is tracking due to the heavily crowned roads near me. anything i should check for?
I am by no means the subject matter expert, but you may want to get an alignment done or at least validate your axle centering. If you did not install a track bar relocation bracket then your axles may not be centered on the frame. Just something to consider.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:05 PM   #14
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OP, based on the numbers you have posted for your alignment you should be getting a pull to the right. A vehicle will naturally pull to the side with the least caster and the side with the most camber. In you case, the caster and camber both are pulling you to the right. Just to confirm the symptom, is your Jeep pulling to the left or is it pulling to the right and your correction has the steering wheel off to the left? I ask because I have been down this road with many customers in the past. Miscommunicating the symptom is the second biggest reason for an unhappy alignment customer.

The first thing I would do is check the air pressure in the tires and make sure it is equal all the way around. If that checks out, do the following:

Can you actually feel the pull in the steering wheel, or does it just feel like the vehicle wants to go left? If you can feel it in the steering wheel, swap your front tires. If it just feels like it wants to go left, swap the rears. If it's a tire problem this will either remove the problem or reverse it.

If that doesn't change anything, then I would look at the alignment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFHavens View Post
MTH: I just read that thread and had already been on Project-JK. According to two separate alignment shops my toe in was only .01 degrees different between them and within spec (.09-.12 degrees)
Tow doesn't cause a pull if it's anywhere in the ballpark. All it causes is the steering wheel to be offcenter and your tires to wear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RFHavens View Post
JIMBOX, The before and after was after the lift was installed.
I doubt this because it means they would have done two alignments. They would have had to hook up the machine the first time, get all the readings and then unhook from your Jeep. They then would have had to reconnect everything again after the lift was installed. There is no way the measurements would have come out the same both times, especially after installing a lift. What you have are readings that were taken before they adjusted the toe and after they adjusted the toe.

Another thing that has me scratching my head is the amount of camber and toe you have in the rear. It isn't uncommon for a solid axle rear end to venture slightly from zero toe and zero camber, but your readings show that you've got as much toe in the rear as you do the front.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:42 PM   #15
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oilwell: Prior to going for the latest alignment yesterday, I validated tire pressure to be within 1 tenth of a pound all around, swapped fronts, then rears the next day and still had the same results. I even tried running 30 psi, 33 psi and 35 psi with no changes in the pull. It is pulling left. If the road surface is cambered to the right on normal roadways in the right lane, I let go of the steering wheel and within a few hundred feet the vehicle is moving to the left. If I am in the left lane and the surface is cambered to the left, let go of the wheel and the vehicle still goes left only it take a little shorter distance maybe 200-200 feet before I start getting close to the edge of the road.

Yes I feel it in the steering wheel and it is centered when driving straight ahead. When I let go of it, I start to drift to the left.

I have no idea about the rear toe. The initial shop had a reading of 0.16 left and 0.10 right with spec calling for 0.00-0.25 degrees per side and a max of 0.50 total.

Unfortunately I am learning more about alignments than I really wanted too. But I guess any and all information is a good thing as long as it makes me smarter and I am not going broke in the process of learning.
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Old 09-27-2011, 02:25 PM   #16
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is your steering stabilizer a gas one that pushes toward the left?
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Old 09-28-2011, 05:44 AM   #17
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is your steering stabilizer a gas one that pushes toward the left?
It is the Bilstein stabilizer. I am not exactly sure which exact model, but will look tonight. I still have the stock one and may switch it out to see if there is still the pull to the left. I know I read some posts in other forums that few people have had the issue and when changing to a different type of stabilizer that it no longer pulled to the left. I will try it tonight and update the results either way.
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:01 AM   #18
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I would remove the steering stabilizer and take it for a ride simply to eliminate it as the potential problem.
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Old 09-28-2011, 07:18 AM   #19
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I need to try the same thing as mine still has a slight pull to the left
I'm running a bilstein also
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Old 09-29-2011, 05:47 AM   #20
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Well drove to work this morning about 20 miles combination of state hwy, old 2-lane, and dirt road. No pull or wandering of the steering. I can tell that the stock steering stabilizer is not as nice as the Bilstein as far as dampening goes but I like not having the pull to the left or any direction for that matter. I would guess that either a dual damper setup, a higher quality non-gas charged damper or the soon to be released thru shaft damper from Fox would be the answer. Myself, I am waiting for the Fox TSD. I suppose I could find a kit that would allow a dual damper setup and add another Bilstein in the other direction if the Fox turns out to be too overpriced.

If anyone else tries going back to the stock damper or just a simple disconnect to see what happens, feel free to post here and let us know.

Thanks for all of the suggestions everyone, Robert.
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Old 02-21-2012, 05:29 PM   #21
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is your steering stabilizer a gas one that pushes toward the left?
hi mine is a bilstein steering gas stabilizer (3.5 sc aev lift kit on a 2010 rubicon 4 door) and i have just picked up my track from the shop and steers toward the left , during accel and braking ..not to much .... but enough to notice it .

my mech .... says its the steering stab that only pulls to one side ...... rather than to be neutral like the stock one.

he asked me to use it and continue testing it .... it may give in

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