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Old 12-22-2010, 11:36 AM   #61
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Put a switch on your dash, pull fused power from the aux terminal in your fusebox or from the battery, use the reverse hot to trip a relay ---- this is the "safe & legal" method.
Legally, the lights can't come on automatically; that's why your reverse lights are so wimpy. They're just meant as indicators that you're backing and give a little navigation light.
Thanks, that makes sense....Merry Christmas!

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Old 12-22-2010, 01:20 PM   #62
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Bear in mind when you pick covers that Lightforce markets a couple that aren't very good. The blue and amber ones are just silly.
Stick with clear, black, & yellow.
They are very robust. I've personally seen one shot by a shotgun.
I had actually planned to try a blue set for snow but the truckers I talked to said save your money. I plan to get yellow and clear in a few different patterns and one set of blacks just for on road protection.

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Old 12-23-2010, 04:04 AM   #63
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I had actually planned to try a blue set for snow but the truckers I talked to said save your money.
The blue filters take away the most light out of all of junk they sell. And it's the most usable spectrum of light too, especially when there's the chance of running into visual "noise" or encountering highly reflective surfaces (like, ummm, snow?). It boggles my mind that they actually market these for use in snow.
HIDs are already too cool a color temperature to use comfortably in snow...

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Old 12-23-2010, 04:46 AM   #64
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I was thinking the same thing with the hid's. I bet it would look downright spooky with them on. They don't work well in snow and that would be the only reason I would think to buy them.

I am aiming to light up a certain area. Really I only need the factory covers to do that. If I move the lights to perform a different function then I will possibly change up the lenses. For now I'm just going to get an extra set of black covers.

By the way I was over to one of my trucker buddies shop today and he had a pair of yellows that were hazed over. We took a little polishing compound and they came out good as new in no time flat. Good to know I might get some life out of them.

I
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:10 AM   #65
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Hilldweller:

I have been trying to follow all the threads and I know a little about electrical and light to understand you but I get lost between aux lighting and main lighting. So could you please post a recommended and if needed less expensive alternative for fog, headlamp and aux lighting.

After Christmas I plan on up grading lighting, and get lost easily in manufacture claims. Thanks.
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:59 AM   #66
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... could you please post a recommended and if needed less expensive alternative for fog, headlamp and aux lighting.
That would be an entire thread...

On the cheap:
The stocker uses an H13 bulb which is a purposely weak design to save money; as a cheap alternative, there are much better (and worse) H13 bulbs. Phillips xtreme Power +80 is the best you can get and are generally less expensive than the sub-par IPF, Delta, Sylvania Silverstar, or PIAA bulbs that are popular these days.

Add a harness to the stocker and Xtreme Power bulb assembly to upgrade further and get more light. The stock system puts a strangle-hold on power with its PWM and light gauge wiring.

Pricier:
The best answer for headlights is a complete retrofit.
Rallylights.com can sell you an H4 kit that has Hella reflectors, bulbs, and a harness. It's easy to install. You can upgrade the bulbs to Phillips Xtreme Powers, Osram Rallye, Osram Nightbreaker, Narva Rangepower, etc. There are even naughtier bulbs that I can't recommend in good faith; again, stay away from childish bulbs like PIAA, IPF Fatboys, Silverstars, etc.

Pricier still:
Daniel Stern Lighting sells Cibie reflectors, Cibie Z-Beams, and sometimes has a few Marchals that he'll part with. Marchal, like in Duesenberg and other high-end cars.
The photometry on these reflectors BLOWS AWAY the competition. It is remarkably easy to fool the human eye with lighting smoke and mirrors but you can't fool the meters...
Mr Stern will suggest (for all the reasons I already stated) that you add a harness and plug assembly to provide power to all this.

Even pricier:
You can jigger-in a legal Valeo/Sylvania HID bi-xenon set of lights; $688 the last time I checked at SUV lights dot com. You'd also need wiring from Stern or Rallylights.
Or some Speaker 8700 LED burners; they come with H4 terminals; same about buying supplemental wiring.

For driving lights, I'm still sticking with the Hella 4000s for value. Wire them to come on with your high beams and you're golden.
My criteria for suggesting lights is an even spread of light so you're just as likely to see a deer jumping out as you are to see a sink-hole in your path on the highway.
CRI and SPD matter to me as well as warm-up time for a driver so I wouldn't suggest HID or LED; not yet anyhow ---- they're getting better all the time.

For offroad lights, I'm all over the cheap-n-stinky HIDs or nose-in-the-air LEDs. Take your pick and let your budget be your guide. Lots of light all over the place. Godlights. Burn the retina, lo and behold, all that.

For foglights? Do you really really need foglights? Not if you spend the money to put Cibie or Marchal headlights on already...
But if you really want dedicated fogs, Cibie Oscars are legal and work great. Not too expensive either considering.

I can't go into detail but, I'll be doing a little something in the upcoming months and will have some real numbers to throw around to compare some lights.
Science is our friend.
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:25 PM   #67
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That would be an entire thread...
Yea it was. Maybe I have ADD or maybe I don't know enough to keep up. I guessing an even 50/50. Thanks for your time.
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:11 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
That would be an entire thread...

On the cheap:
The stocker uses an H13 bulb which is a purposely weak design to save money; as a cheap alternative, there are much better (and worse) H13 bulbs. Phillips xtreme Power +80 is the best you can get and are generally less expensive than the sub-par IPF, Delta, Sylvania Silverstar, or PIAA bulbs that are popular these days.

Add a harness to the stocker and Xtreme Power bulb assembly to upgrade further and get more light. The stock system puts a strangle-hold on power with its PWM and light gauge wiring.

Pricier:
The best answer for headlights is a complete retrofit.
Rallylights.com can sell you an H4 kit that has Hella reflectors, bulbs, and a harness. It's easy to install. You can upgrade the bulbs to Phillips Xtreme Powers, Osram Rallye, Osram Nightbreaker, Narva Rangepower, etc. There are even naughtier bulbs that I can't recommend in good faith; again, stay away from childish bulbs like PIAA, IPF Fatboys, Silverstars, etc.

Pricier still:
Daniel Stern Lighting sells Cibie reflectors, Cibie Z-Beams, and sometimes has a few Marchals that he'll part with. Marchal, like in Duesenberg and other high-end cars.
The photometry on these reflectors BLOWS AWAY the competition. It is remarkably easy to fool the human eye with lighting smoke and mirrors but you can't fool the meters...
Mr Stern will suggest (for all the reasons I already stated) that you add a harness and plug assembly to provide power to all this.

Even pricier:
You can jigger-in a legal Valeo/Sylvania HID bi-xenon set of lights; $688 the last time I checked at SUV lights dot com. You'd also need wiring from Stern or Rallylights.
Or some Speaker 8700 LED burners; they come with H4 terminals; same about buying supplemental wiring.

For driving lights, I'm still sticking with the Hella 4000s for value. Wire them to come on with your high beams and you're golden.
My criteria for suggesting lights is an even spread of light so you're just as likely to see a deer jumping out as you are to see a sink-hole in your path on the highway.
CRI and SPD matter to me as well as warm-up time for a driver so I wouldn't suggest HID or LED; not yet anyhow ---- they're getting better all the time.

For offroad lights, I'm all over the cheap-n-stinky HIDs or nose-in-the-air LEDs. Take your pick and let your budget be your guide. Lots of light all over the place. Godlights. Burn the retina, lo and behold, all that.

For foglights? Do you really really need foglights? Not if you spend the money to put Cibie or Marchal headlights on already...
But if you really want dedicated fogs, Cibie Oscars are legal and work great. Not too expensive either considering.

I can't go into detail but, I'll be doing a little something in the upcoming months and will have some real numbers to throw around to compare some lights.
Science is our friend.

Thank you for taking the time to write this up! I will benefit a lot from this.
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Old 12-24-2010, 05:50 AM   #69
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Thank you again Hilldweller, you mention the Hella 4000 series lights, is there a part # for those? Im looking for driving lights, and I see they make a whole bunch under the 4000 tagline
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:34 AM   #70
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...i really like the hella rallye 4000 metal euro beam, pn-h12560021. The light from it is uniform, fairly long-throw, and pretty wide. I like halogens for drivers for their fast on/off cycling...
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Old 12-24-2010, 08:50 AM   #71
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Could we sticky this...I've been trying to compile all the threads from multiple sites too.
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Old 12-24-2010, 02:36 PM   #72
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Could we sticky this...I've been trying to compile all the threads from multiple sites too.
You got my vote.
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:03 PM   #73
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I received my rallylights kit today, already got it installed...

All I can say is WOW......

I'm really looking forward to upgrading the lenses again...

I took pics and will do a write up, maybe Sunday...what a difference!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:16 PM   #74
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I received my rallylights kit today, already got it installed...

All I can say is WOW......

I'm really looking forward to upgrading the lenses again...

I took pics and will do a write up, maybe Sunday...what a difference!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you running the philips bulbs?
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:33 PM   #75
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Are you running the philips bulbs?
YES...(extreme +80's)

My neighbor, two houses away, commented on the brightness...
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:36 PM   #76
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YES...(extreme +80's)

My neighbor, two houses away, commented on the brightness...
Nice. I know exactly what your seeing. It's a beautiful thing huh brother?
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Old 12-24-2010, 07:45 PM   #77
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Nice. I know exactly what your seeing. It's a beautiful thing huh brother?
OH, yes Bro, I may turn into an illumination freak...LMAO

(you're already there,huh)
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:19 PM   #78
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Hi! Sorry to crash the JK section, but would these upgrades also work on TJ models.

In particular, I have an '05 LJ and would like to upgrade to move up to some Cibies. Any particular issues that I'll face (above and beyond those applying to JK)?

Thanks! And Happy New Year!!!

- Frank
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Old 01-04-2011, 04:40 PM   #79
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Hi! Sorry to crash the JK section, but would these upgrades also work on TJ models.

In particular, I have an '05 LJ and would like to upgrade to move up to some Cibies. Any particular issues that I'll face (above and beyond those applying to JK)?

Thanks! And Happy New Year!!!

- Frank
The Cibie housing should fit right in but you'll need a different harness that what we're using.
I'm not sure if the 6024 socket will match right up with an H4; I think it might. Ask Dan Stern; he'll know.
Even if it fits, the lights will work better with a supplemental harness. Old wiring is old wiring.

PS ---- Coconut Grove, huh? I haven't hung out there in YEARS. Not since Danny opened his restaurant.

Back when I had hair:
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:01 PM   #80
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Thanks, Bill! I sent Dan Stern an email through his site so will hopefully hear back soon.

And what a great picture! I'm just in Miami for a year, coming from California and heading to Maine. But it's fun so far.

Cheers!

Frank
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:03 PM   #81
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I talked to rallylights about a TJ upgrade and they use the same parts as us except for the harness. It is a direct plug in. I confirmed this on my buddies 06 LJ.

They can build you a harness for about $40 less than the JK harness.
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Old 02-10-2011, 06:34 PM   #82
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I agree this topic should be "stickied", it is a wealth of information on a topic that is very overlooked.......safety wise, this should be right up there in mods.... I have a 2010 Rubicon 2 door that I got in July, and this will be my first mod to speak of.....the Jeep isnt my daily driver (yet....lol, my truck is a 2003 and the NY winters is taking its toll on it) Thanks to Hilldweller and the other contributers...
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:37 PM   #83
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I installed Cibie Z-Beams a few weeks ago; big improvement over the Hella reflectors. I used the Phillips Xtreme bulbs at first and recently switched back to Osram Rallye 70/65. I like the Osrams better in these reflectors.

Lowbeam Zs with Phillips bulbs:


Hibeam Zs with Phillips bulbs:


I'm going to grab some LUX values from the Zs with the Rallyes. I'll then install a set of the new and improved Truck-Lite 7" LED lights and do the same thing. I'll use both my Rallylights harness which gets it's power straight from the batter and their supplied pigtail H13-H4 dongles that use the stock PWM-power.

I recently scoped the headlight circuit on my JK (at break time) using an Agilent Technologies InfiniiVision MSO7104A that was loaned to me. Nominal pulse widths ran from 4.47 - 12.68v. The 12.68 looked like it was a spike though and it settled down lower to 12.5 or so.
It doesn't cycle off at all.

I'll leave all preconceived notions in the outhouse and take some pics; results should speak for themselves.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:44 PM   #84
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The Truck-Lites:



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Old 02-11-2011, 05:17 PM   #85
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I've been curious to see a comparison.....(are they pricey?)

One of my Hella lenses got cracked by a stone hit already, do you know if the protective film that is sold for headlamps actually does the job???
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:31 PM   #86
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I've been curious to see a comparison.....(are they pricey?)
I'm seeing them at 4WD for $546/pair. NAPA carries them as well.

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One of my Hella lenses got cracked by a stone hit already, do you know if the protective film that is sold for headlamps actually does the job???
I know lots of people in both the motorcycle and MINI Cooper world who've used it and swear by it.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:51 PM   #87
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I've been curious to see a comparison.....(are they pricey?)

One of my Hella lenses got cracked by a stone hit already, do you know if the protective film that is sold for headlamps actually does the job???
I have a friend that runs pilot up the haul road and they are subjected to more rocks than anything I have seen and he swears by the film. In fact when he saw that I had hella reflectors that is the first thing he mentioned.
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:57 PM   #88
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The Truck-Lites:
What is new and improved about them? The ones I saw in person were way too blue and the specs showed very little power savings compared to halogen and actually a higher draw when using high beams. Of course the projected lifespan of the lamps is a big plus.

The comparison I saw between the jwspeaker and trucklites had the trucklites looking a lot better than the pair I saw in person. On high beam it was really almost a toss up. On lows I much preferred the beam of the jwspeaker unit.
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:09 PM   #89
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What is new and improved about them? The ones I saw in person were way too blue and the specs showed very little power savings compared to halogen and actually a higher draw when using high beams. Of course the projected lifespan of the lamps is a big plus.

The comparison I saw between the jwspeaker and trucklites had the trucklites looking a lot better than the pair I saw in person. On high beam it was really almost a toss up. On lows I much preferred the beam of the jwspeaker unit.
The beam is supposed to be improved.
I'm heading out right now to measure the Zs and Osrams.
I'm also going to take the temperatures of the lens after 10 minutes running ---- snow/ice melt...
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:35 PM   #90
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Cibie Z-Beams with Osram Rallye 70/65 bulbs.

Markers at 25yards L/R, 50 yards L/R, 75 yards L/R
Jeep on right side of 2-lane road; camera on hood, in front of driver

Ambient temperature 35 degrees F; lens temperature 157 degrees F at 6"

Lux readings Lowbeam/Highbeam:

25Right-65/ 49 * 25Left-11/ 5

50Right-4/ 29 * 50Left-3/ 4

75Right-1/ 17 * 75Left-0/ 5

25 feet dead center 583/ 970

Z-beams, lowbeam, with Osram bulbs.


Z-beams, highbeam, with Osram bulbs.

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