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Old 09-23-2011, 04:58 PM   #31
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Heh Heh, don't you think that we'd have to agree on the "GAME" first ??


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Originally Posted by Djstorm100 View Post
Thank you, so 1,000-1,100 rpm the 3.8 is better slightly/marginally. After that it's game over.
Lotta games running around !

Whats your choice ??

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Old 09-23-2011, 05:08 PM   #32
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It really depends on your needs....
If you have a 3.8L manual Rubi with 4.10's and you do a lot of crawling..there is really no need to look at a 2012. The 3.8 engine is fine...it was the factory gearing that was all jacked up.

Now....for a mall crawler like myself who is worried about both fuel economy and street/highway drive-ability...I pretty much HAVE to look at a 2012 because of the new tranny. (Sorry, I'm done with sticks as my daily driver).

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Old 09-23-2011, 05:15 PM   #33
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Well said and I agree-


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Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
It really depends on your needs....
If you have a 3.8L manual Rubi with 4.10's and you do a lot of crawling..there is really no need to look at a 2012. The 3.8 engine is fine...it was the factory gearing that was all jacked up.

Now....for a mall crawler like myself who is worried about both fuel economy and street/highway drive-ability...I pretty much HAVE to look at a 2012 because of the new tranny. (Sorry, I'm done with sticks as my daily driver).
Long live the automatic-

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Old 09-23-2011, 05:16 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark
It really depends on your needs....
If you have a 3.8L manual Rubi with 4.10's and you do a lot of crawling..there is really no need to look at a 2012. The 3.8 engine is fine...it was the factory gearing that was all jacked up.

Now....for a mall crawler like myself who is worried about both fuel economy and street/highway drive-ability...I pretty much HAVE to look at a 2012 because of the new tranny. (Sorry, I'm done with sticks as my daily driver).


News to me on the torque curves.
Any benefit to it?
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Old 09-23-2011, 06:14 PM   #35
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I know it's sacrilegious, but it's the only place I could find it posted, RIPP dyno'd the stock 3.6 vs 3.8 with headers. RIPP 2012 3.6 Dyno Results
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:01 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
Found it:



Looks like the 3.8 has the edge up until 1200 RPM's....then the 3.6 really kicks in.
No one has really complained about the 3.8 off road. It's on the road with the automatic where the issues have been.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:38 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
It would be nice to have more torque just off idle, but that isn't going to happen given the size of the engine.
What is your rear-diff ratio?
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Old 09-24-2011, 11:55 AM   #38
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What is your rear-diff ratio?
It really has nothing to do with the engine not making any torque, but since you asked it's 3.73.
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Old 09-24-2011, 12:35 PM   #39
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Heh Heh, now thats a true statement, but


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Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
It really has nothing to do with the engine not making any torque, but since you asked it's 3.73.
The gear ratio has nothing to do with the engine horsepower/torque--AT THE FLYWHEEL, but

The diff. ratio makes all the difference in the world what the APPLIED HP/TQ is

My '08 JKUR APPLIED HP/TQ went up over 35% with my regearing and the crawl ratio went from 73/1 to 96/1-

With the new 3.6L v6, the diff ratios aren't near as important as they are for the 3.8L, for APPLIED HP/TQ !

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Old 09-24-2011, 02:23 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
Which month is the latest? Based on the other magazines I get it could be September, October or November. I'd like to pick that up on the news stand and see what else they have to say.
It's in the November 2011 issue: 2012 Jeep Wrangler JK 3.6 Pentastar V6 First Drive

Excerpt:
"Bottom Line
Look, itís not the V-8 that we all wish it was, but we think the 3.6L Pentastar V-6 will be enough to chew into the Hemi V-8 swap market. And it will surely decrease the used-car value of the í07-í11 3.8L V-6 powered Wranglers, at least for the enthusiast market. When comparing the dyno charts youíll see that the new 3.6L makes slightly less torque under 1,400 rpm, but in the real world behind the wheel you donít notice it because of the improved throttle response on the manual tranny version and both the improved throttle response and the deeper gearing on the automatic tranny version. And from 2,000 rpm on up the 3.6L puts the old motor to shame thanks in part to the extremely flat torque curve.

The Pentastar is a pretty advanced motor and will probably stick around for a while. It has lots of potential, not just because it will eventually be the only V-6 in the Chrysler lineup, but because off into the future it can very easily be set up for direct injection, a turbo, or even twin turbos."
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:34 PM   #41
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Heh Heh, now thats a true statement, but




The gear ratio has nothing to do with the engine horsepower/torque--AT THE FLYWHEEL, but

The diff. ratio makes all the difference in the world what the APPLIED HP/TQ is

My '08 JKUR APPLIED HP/TQ went up over 35% with my regearing and the crawl ratio went from 73/1 to 96/1-

With the new 3.6L v6, the diff ratios aren't near as important as they are for the 3.8L, for APPLIED HP/TQ !

Keepyerpowderdry

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I know regearing makes up for the lack of torque, but it does not add any power real or otherwise at the wheels. It puts the engine at an rpm where it makes more power, and operates more efficiently for most people, but doesn't add power. You are exchanging rpm for torque.

I must be too old fashioned, I would rather have an engine that does the job on its own instead of needing gears to save it. Not that many years ago we were doing things on 32" tires and 3.08 gears that we can't do now with the same size of tire and 3.73 or 4.10 gears.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:37 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaulP View Post
It's in the November 2011 issue: 2012 Jeep Wrangler JK 3.6 Pentastar V6 First Drive

Excerpt:
"Bottom Line
Look, itís not the V-8 that we all wish it was, but we think the 3.6L Pentastar V-6 will be enough to chew into the Hemi V-8 swap market. And it will surely decrease the used-car value of the í07-í11 3.8L V-6 powered Wranglers, at least for the enthusiast market. When comparing the dyno charts youíll see that the new 3.6L makes slightly less torque under 1,400 rpm, but in the real world behind the wheel you donít notice it because of the improved throttle response on the manual tranny version and both the improved throttle response and the deeper gearing on the automatic tranny version. And from 2,000 rpm on up the 3.6L puts the old motor to shame thanks in part to the extremely flat torque curve.

The Pentastar is a pretty advanced motor and will probably stick around for a while. It has lots of potential, not just because it will eventually be the only V-6 in the Chrysler lineup, but because off into the future it can very easily be set up for direct injection, a turbo, or even twin turbos."
Thanks for the link. I went by the newsstand and they've still got the October issue out. I'll keep looking for it and make due with the electronic version until I find it.
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:53 PM   #43
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Man, you're getting hard to understand-


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Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
I know regearing makes up for the lack of torque, but it does not add any power real or otherwise at the wheels. It puts the engine at an rpm where it makes more power, and operates more efficiently for most people, but doesn't add power. You are exchanging rpm for torque.

I must be too old fashioned, I would rather have an engine that does the job on its own instead of needing gears to save it. Not that many years ago we were doing things on 32" tires and 3.08 gears that we can't do now with the same size of tire and 3.73 or 4.10 gears.
If the regearing allows the engine to perform at the more effecient rpm and produce more power/torque, at the wheels, then why would you feel that we "NEED GEARS" aren't the vehicles supplied with gears for different purpose anyway ??

You're nowhere near as old fashioned as I am and I'm older than you--

I've always been willing to personally modify engines/trannys/weapons/vehicles-to satisfy my own requirements and thats the way I've treated this JKUR--

If you're gonna be happy with the 2012 AS IS/no changes/no personal touchs--more power to you-

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Old 09-24-2011, 06:57 PM   #44
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JIMBOX, care to explain JKUR.. whats the R
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Old 09-24-2011, 06:58 PM   #45
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JIMBOX, care to explain JKUR.. whats the R
Rubicon?
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:09 PM   #46
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If the regearing allows the engine to perform at the more effecient rpm and produce more power/torque, at the wheels, then why would you feel that we "NEED GEARS" aren't the vehicles supplied with gears for different purpose anyway ??
Speaking of hard to understand, I'm not sure what you are asking here. Obivously it needs some gear reduction of some kind because an engine big enough to move the vehicle without any gearing wouldn't fit in the JK. However, an engine that made enough torque to turn reasonable tire sizes with 3.73 gears and the currently available transmissions is completely reasonable. Even a 4 liter version of the Pentastar would add enough torque to do that, but they haven't followed through with that yet.

Quote:
You're nowhere near as old fashioned as I am and I'm older than you--
Whatever you say old man.

Quote:
I've always been willing to personally modify engines/trannys/weapons/vehicles-to satisfy my own requirements and thats the way I've treated this JKUR--
I do the same thing with all of my toys. It just doesn't make sense that this one toy has to have $1000 in work done to it just to make it handle tire sizes that are very commonly used on it.

Quote:
If you're gonna be happy with the 2012 AS IS/no changes/no personal touchs--more power to you-

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I'm not. Hence the $4k in mods we installed the morning after we picked it up.
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:14 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415

I know regearing makes up for the lack of torque, but it does not add any power real or otherwise at the wheels. It puts the engine at an rpm where it makes more power, and operates more efficiently for most people, but doesn't add power. You are exchanging rpm for torque.

I must be too old fashioned, I would rather have an engine that does the job on its own instead of needing gears to save it. Not that many years ago we were doing things on 32" tires and 3.08 gears that we can't do now with the same size of tire and 3.73 or 4.10 gears.
It like software code today... The developers overcome poor an inefficient code by using a faster processor and ram to compensate.
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:18 PM   #48
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[QUOTE=HaulP;1599709]It's in the November 2011 issue: 2012 Jeep Wrangler JK 3.6 Pentastar V6 First Drive

Excerpt:
"Bottom Line
Look, itís not the V-8 that we all wish it was, but we think the 3.6L Pentastar V-6 will be enough to chew into the Hemi V-8 swap market. And it will surely decrease the used-car value of the í07-í11 3.8L V-6 powered Wranglers, at least for the enthusiast market. When comparing the dyno charts youíll see that the new 3.6L makes slightly less torque under 1,400 rpm, but in the real world behind the wheel you donít notice it because of the improved throttle response on the manual tranny version and both the improved throttle response and the deeper gearing on the automatic tranny version. And from 2,000 rpm on up the 3.6L puts the old motor to shame thanks in part to the extremely flat torque curve."

I do not want a V8, if it was I never would have looked at it. I have a 5.3 Chevrolet Silverado 4x4 with 6 speed auto that I love to drive. I bought the 2012 Rubicon Unlimited auto with 4.10 gears for everyday use and to go to places I would not take pickup with camper too. Love the power and mpg of new 3.6 engine.
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Old 09-24-2011, 07:39 PM   #49
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That write up mentioned "throttle response" isn't that controlled by the ECU
AKA, drive by wire?

I always get smarta** comments when I have complained about my 07 lack of it, even though I'm not complaining about torque or power even acceleration for that matter. The jk has a noticeable delay in TR that is very annoying.

What is different about the 12, if there not comparing torque to throttle response?

ECU programming?

I have read a tuner helps and also the SprintBooster.

Thats it
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Old 09-24-2011, 08:04 PM   #50
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Yea, a chat room !


Quote:
Originally Posted by GREEN-MACHINE View Post
JIMBOX, care to explain JKUR.. whats the R
Jeep King Unlimited Rubicon (JKUR)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2012-Rubicon View Post
Rubicon?
BINGO

Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwell1415 View Post
Speaking of hard to understand, I'm not sure what you are asking here. Obivously it needs some gear reduction of some kind because an engine big enough to move the vehicle without any gearing wouldn't fit in the JK. However, an engine that made enough torque to turn reasonable tire sizes with 3.73 gears and the currently available transmissions is completely reasonable. Even a 4 liter version of the Pentastar would add enough torque to do that, but they haven't followed through with that yet.



Whatever you say old man.



I do the same thing with all of my toys. It just doesn't make sense that this one toy has to have $1000 in work done to it just to make it handle tire sizes that are very commonly used on it.



I'm not. Hence the $4k in mods we installed the morning after we picked it up.
Heh Heh, my regear and SYNERGY Ball Joints/welding--$1958 bucks

Quote:
Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
That write up mentioned "throttle response" isn't that controlled by the ECU
AKA, drive by wire?

I always get smarta** comments when I have complained about my 07 lack of it, even though I'm not complaining about torque or power even acceleration for that matter. The jk has a noticeable delay in TR that is very annoying.

What is different about the 12, if there not comparing torque to throttle response?

ECU programming?

I have read a tuner helps and also the SprintBooster.

Thats it
Welllllll, these on-board ECMs (ECU) are somewhat SELF LEARNING--Mine has done a LOTTA relearning, from sea level (CA) to 4200 ft (Nevada), reprogrammed speedo/tranny/throttle response ckts and that's because of the --regearing


In summary--my JKUR is now a very fun jeep to drive, especially off road and pleasant to drive 70mph in O/D and have "NO DOWNSHIFTS", with gas mileage16/17/18mpg--throttle response is "IMMEDIATE"

I'm glad we had this chat !

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Old 09-24-2011, 08:50 PM   #51
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Guys - I think its safe to say that both engines are excellent off-road. Let's not beat it to death.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:08 PM   #52
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Grrr -- kinda what I'm talking about. I know gears are the answer to most, I see that but..... I'm not talking about Torque, pow, Acceleration, etc.

I understand that the ECU will learn "ME"
and my jeep has gotten peppier since I got her but..... Again ima not taking bout that.

THROTTLE RESPONSE.
That write up clearly says the" 3.6 has less torque at lower rpms but makes up for it with better throttle response" What makes it "better"?

I'm not talking about speed, 0-60, power, etc... And there is no secret that the pre 12 JK's have poor throttle response and to some make the engine "feel" sluggish when is "really" NOT

WHY
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:24 PM   #53
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It's quite a varyable system kj, but go to google and checkout "Electronic Throttle Control" and you'll see all the parts that come into play-


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Originally Posted by kjeeper10 View Post
Grrr -- kinda what I'm talking about. I know gears are the answer to most, I see that but..... I'm not talking about Torque, pow, Acceleration, etc.

I understand that the ECU will learn "ME"
and my jeep has gotten peppier since I got her but..... Again ima not taking bout that.

THROTTLE RESPONSE.
That write up clearly says the" 3.6 has less torque at lower rpms but makes up for it with better throttle response" What makes it "better"?

I'm not talking about speed, 0-60, power, etc... And there is no secret that the pre 12 JK's have poor throttle response and to some make the engine "feel" sluggish when is "really" NOT

WHY
BMW has been using it for over 20 years !!

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Old 09-24-2011, 09:37 PM   #54
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I know how it works but thanks.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:42 PM   #55
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well K-RAP, I was kinda expecting you to wire me some money for the comprehensible info, but


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I know how it works but thanks.
No--Nada/zip-I'm still gonna go buy that dog so I can kickem !!

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Old 09-24-2011, 09:47 PM   #56
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well K-RAP, I was kinda expecting you to wire me some money for the comprehensible info, but

No--Nada/zip-I'm still gonna go buy that dog so I can kickem !!

CIAO

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Old 09-24-2011, 09:49 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C4U5H View Post
I know it's sacrilegious, but it's the only place I could find it posted, RIPP dyno'd the stock 3.6 vs 3.8 with headers. RIPP 2012 3.6 Dyno Results

I always said it would be at the wheel numbers that will show the real picture and the motors are not that far apart at normal driving RPM. The 3.6 really shines at higher one but really, why would people be flooring a JK. This was a nice revealing dyno. Still looks to be the biggest difference is not the motor but the new auto transmission and better throttle response.

So if you can regear the pre-2012 Auto to get it in line with the new Auto and also get the ECU to preform better at throttle response then the previous model will preform quiet well.
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Old 09-24-2011, 09:50 PM   #58
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Now I have no doubt, that when you say "fix her doors" you're speaking of "JEEP" right ??


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I'll have my new(est) friend Danielle kiddy up some bank when we fix her doors
Heh Heh-

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Old 09-24-2011, 10:00 PM   #59
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Hehe she way too young :whistle:
but ya--the jeep.
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Old 09-24-2011, 10:14 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rics1997

I always said it would be at the wheel numbers that will show the real picture and the motors are not that far apart at normal driving RPM. The 3.6 really shines at higher one but really, why would people be flooring a JK. This was a nice revealing dyno. Still looks to be the biggest difference is not the motor but the new auto transmission and better throttle response.

So if you can regear the pre-2012 Auto to get it in line with the new Auto and also get the ECU to preform better at throttle response then the previous model will preform quiet well.
Hence a Tuner or uh um.... SprintBooster

The stock throttle response in the pre 12 jk is toned down for a couple reasons. no secret... Glad they worked it out.
With the sprint booster I don't have to wind it out to 3000+ before I shift. I would hit 2300 ish-depress the clutch and give it gas, the rpms would sink to under 2000 before it cought up.. We all no the 3.8 performs poorly under 2000 rpms. A tuner has been noted to help also with TR.

Don't know if regearing would help. Plus most people regear for bigger tires and/or the AT.
Have not seen a performance regear yet.

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'10 sahara value after '12 pentastar engine comes out Capjac04 JK General Discussion Forum 46 11-25-2011 11:15 AM
Wait for Pentastar?? proton JK General Discussion Forum 15 08-28-2010 01:51 PM
Yes, another Pentastar thread. Mr. Sinister JK General Discussion Forum 8 08-23-2010 03:22 PM



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