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Old 01-29-2010, 11:13 AM   #1
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Pentastar motor,,, 2011 or 2012?

Well after seeing that the Pentastars coming out in the GC, and will trickle down to the Wrangler. Was is 2011 or 2012?

I think I have also heard that there will be some interior changes in the next model year.

Right now Jeep is offering 0 % for 3 yrs. And they have never done this before have they?

So i asked the local jeep dealer about the Pentastar , and he had no idea what it was? Are these people really that dense, and or do they play like it to sell the crap they already have on the lot?

The idea of 280hp in a wrangler sounds just about right.

So, I might need to work a good deal on a 2010,,and have the dealer sign in that when the Pentastar gets dropped in the Wrangler to give me a good trade in and buy. But then again , the Pentastar prob wont come with 0%,, and the whole sales tax over again?

Just wish I could buy once, and buy right.

Im sure others might be in the same boat.

One big downfall of the Jeep has always been the motor,, now a new powerhouse is right around the corner.

ps.....I did like my 4.0 I had with a stick,, it reved nice.

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Old 01-29-2010, 11:25 AM   #2
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No I think most of the sales people only learn as much as they need to to sell cars to the average person. Most people wont know about the new motor they came in to buy a 4door jk cause it's "cute". It annoys me how many times I've gone on a test drive and know more then the salesperson.

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Old 01-29-2010, 11:41 AM   #3
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i hear that bug man,,, but i guess its better for business to play dumb...

Also when do the 2011's Wranglers usually hit the lots?

Another thing really quick,,, has that death wobble been ironed out yet in the new models,, or is it still happening?

This was one other issue I had , and it might keep me away from the Wrangler.

I was even looking at a jeep srt-8, and seen they have major tire seperations in the front. Stock runcraps, and aftermarket tires.... have to do with the camber setup from the factory, for better handeling,,, and thats just as scarey!!!!!
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:03 PM   #4
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Check out Allpar.com it has all the info on when the Penstars are coming out and what cars are getting them.

Also, check out the jeep section and see the new Islander 2 door coming out and the Mountain 4 door. See what you guys think.
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:31 PM   #5
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Ummmmm that link says nothing about when the penastar is to show up in the wrangler... and the islander and mountain,,, wtf decal package and ugly colors?

But good info on the Pentastar.

They say major imporvments for 2011,

So when do the 2011's usually hit Jeep showrooms?
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:34 PM   #6
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usually mid summer to mid fall
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Old 01-29-2010, 12:36 PM   #7
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Chrysler offered us 0% for 3 years last year on our '09 Wrangler.

Quit trying to buy at the perfect time - in all but a very few cases you are doomed to dissapointment. Once you sign on the dotted line there is always the chance that there will be a better deal or better model next week/month/year. Find a deal and model that makes you happy and buy, or don't and don't.

Never make the perfect the enemy of the good. If the Pentastar is that important to you then wait, ask questions, and hope.
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:21 PM   #8
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Silvrevo,

Sorry forgot to mention that i have not seen any info on that site that says the wrangler is getting the Penstar engine but it seems every other car is !!

Thats exactly what i thought you would say about the Islander and the Moutain jeeps !
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:23 PM   #9
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Silvrevo,

Sorry forgot to mention that i have not seen any info on that site that says the wrangler is getting the Pentastar engine but it seems every other car is !!

Thats exactly what i thought you would say about the Islander and the Mountain jeeps !
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Old 01-29-2010, 01:24 PM   #10
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Sorry guys hit the back button by mistake !
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:52 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman1964 View Post
No I think most of the sales people only learn as much as they need to to sell cars to the average person. Most people wont know about the new motor they came in to buy a 4door jk cause it's "cute". It annoys me how many times I've gone on a test drive and know more then the salesperson.
You are right most sales people don't know what they are selling. I know this why the people I work with don't know jeep. You ask them on ? They run to a book. I have been at a Jeep Dealer for now 6 months. The Pentastar motor, jeep is try to put it in the JK with the 5 speed automatic.
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Old 01-29-2010, 03:27 PM   #12
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think about it if jeep went around telling everybody that the next jeep will have this great motor and this great new interior then why would people run to their local dealership and by up the rest of last years jeeps. this same concept just happened to me at a kia dealership. we went there for nothing more than to meet up with somebody and then leave but i saw a new forte coupe so walked over to look at it and when the salesman came over to talk to me i asked if they have any of the turbo ones and he just looks at me with this face like you should have no idea about that engine. he then begins to tell me all about the 2.4 liter 175 hp blah blah thats in the car im looking at. i asked when the new turbo ones are gonna get here and then says later this year and walks off. i was like wtf lol ok i wasnt gonna buy one anyway but thanks for the help. the penstar will most likely be in for next year since its in the GC already but we wont know for sure untill jeep thinks they sold enough of the ones they still have
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:00 PM   #13
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Wow,, that guy was sour grapes for sure. Like,, oh no commison for me,, P up a rope buddy.

Yes I do almost all the time,, really cant recall one that anyone in the sales dept knew as much as I do. Its like they pick these sales guys up from famous footware, and drop them right on the floor.

I think the best bet for me is to get one at 0%,, own it for a couple years. Then trade it in for a Pentastar Wrangler. If it is as good as it sounds. that way I wont take a big hit again on the sales tax.

Timing is the key to alot of things in life. But please dont try to tell me that an extra 80hp on a Wrangler isnt going to take it to a whole different level!

Plus you never know when Osama will dump more incentives into Chrysler again. They were down 19% again last Month.
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Old 02-03-2010, 12:06 PM   #14
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From what I heard the Wrangler will not be the first Jeep to get that engine. It will first be dropped in like the Grand Cherokee and then the plans are a year or two later drop it into the Wrangler. The estimates that I have heard is that we won't see that engine in the Wrangler til at least 2013 at the earliest.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:11 PM   #15
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Post Pentastar Info

Like many of you, I also have found my local Jeep dealer acts dumb regarding the Pentastar. Fiat has breathed new life into Chrysler and though they'll be making little cars few people on this forum would want, they're intent on keeping the Jeep brand viable and the Wrangler the pre-eminent Jeep. Allpar says the Pentastar will be put throughout the entire Chrysler line (except where 8 cylinders would go (Ram for example). The 80hp is truly significant plus the mpg goes up as well...that's a double benefit. The 2011 Wrangler should, according to my dealer, hit the showrooms, late summer or early fall. He is not saying but it sounds like production abilities of the Pentastar is the key to whether the 2011 or 2012 Wrangler will get the Pentastar. Depending on how many Pentastars they have to put in the Grand Cherokees they sell, will be a factor. What is NOT known, however, is exactly where the Wrangler fits in on the priority list. In other words, will it get the engine right after the Grand Cherokee, or will it have to wait until slow dogs who buy a V6 in the Ram get them, or what. If Chrysler is truly smart, they will realize that there really is a pent up demand for a more powerful Wrangler, and the Pentastar will do it. Don't depend on any dealer to give you a lot of details about the Pentastar. He wants to sell the slow, crude 202hp engine. I'd definitely hold on for the Pentastar and the improved interior.
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Old 02-05-2010, 02:38 PM   #16
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Just my 2 cents... My wife and I have been trying to be smarter with our money and become debt free. So far over the last year we have payed off all but the Jeep and the House. We bought the jeep a year old with 30,000 miles on it and it's great.

We learned how to manage our money so well from reading Dave Ramsey's book "The Total Money Makeover".

www.totalmoneymakeover.com

What's great about the advice he gives is, I have so much more money to spend on things I really want... unlike interest and depreciation! When purchasing a new car you will have to pay what he calls the "Stupid Tax" which is the first 1-2 years of rapid depreciation. Been there done that! If you buy new to sell in 2 years then you will have paid the tax for the person you sell the jeep to. If you put pen to paper on the money you will loose over the two years you could have put lift, tires, bumpers, winch... and the list goes on.

I guess my 2 cents would be if you really want the new motor Jeep then wait with what you drive now... If you don't want to wait then at the very least buy a couple year old Jeep that will depreciate a lot slower.
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:45 PM   #17
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Ah but that logic is somewhat flawed. Nearly 100% you are going to get a lot worse financing on a used car, so your paying more in interest even if it's on a lower balance. Secondly Wranglers hold their value extremely well. For instance you can purchase an 07 Wrangler 4 door for only about a few grand cheaper than a brand new 2010 Wrangler 4 door. There are a lot of other factors that need to be added in.
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:03 PM   #18
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Good news Bob,, And Log,,, I watch my spending too.. Just did a refyi at 5%,, cc is always at 0%, has been for 9 years, even purchases. Just transfer out after the year is up.

So Im in a leased 335i now that gets turned in Aug 23 this year.

Im all about sure Im getting a Wrangler at 0%,, maybe better deals when the 2011's hit the lots this year too.

My idea is trading back into the dealer,, then I wont take a Huge sales taxx hit again buying new. This is on a 20__ Pentastar Wrangler. Maybe have the sign they will give me nada retail for my trade and invoice for a new Pentastar eq. Wrangler,, we will see.

So we shall see how things shake out. Im also kinda eyeing the FJ Cruiser. This might be their last year ever produced. But I like the smallness of the Wrangler for parking and zipping around. Plus the drop top is sweet.

Im thinking a Sport with power windows and locks, sirius, and maybe the rubi tires. I had them priced at $23k local,,,,,,,,thats just the first dealership I visited. Not even the Large one in my area. They even called back about 5 times wanting to know if I was ready to deal yet..

So I think I can swing $20k with those extras this Aug. and hopfully 0% too. Maybe a new flat screen tv,, or vacation pack. I love those throw in items. And I love the whole car shopping and dealings. Most people hate it,, I love it.

Im in sales btw ,,,,,,,,,, and as far as these sales monkeys,, they are just door openers to me,,, dont know shiet,, and they are proud to tell you so.
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Old 02-05-2010, 04:51 PM   #19
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Anthony: The logic isn't flawed at all when you lay it out. 1.) If you save up and don't finance it doesn't matter what your apr is. Also if you must finance I've seen rates as low as 1.9% on used cars. Even if you pay it out full term at that % you will pay way less then the initial depreciation. 2.) I agree with you that wranglers hold their value well but, they loose it quicker those first 2 years. So if you don't have it during that time you will do a whole lot better. 3.) One thing commonly overlooked is if you get that great 0% then you usually have to forfeit any rebates or other incentives.

You don't have to like the advise but it is true! As Dave says "Millionaires didn't become millionaires by purchasing new cars."

BTW I used to sell Jeeps and I agree most of the sales people don't know squat about the wrangler except how to take the top off. It's pitiful but I guess I can't blame them... I didn't know anything about the other cars!
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Old 02-05-2010, 06:32 PM   #20
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Yh I understand what your saying but I'm specifically speaking about financing. Obviously buying cash will save you. Also depending on what your buying for. Are you planning on trading it in down the road? Are you going to keep it til it shits the bed? Trust me I work in finance and investments. 99.999999999% you will get a better finance rate on a new car than a used one. Seeing that I just shopped Wranglers becuase I just bought mine I found that on average (primarily for a stock Jeep) that after everything was said in done a brand new Jeep would cost me about $2.5k more than used (good at negotiating ). The used ones I were looking at were about minimum 29k-30k miles. Also most of the financing I looked at was over 7 years. When comparing the rates I got (I got a better rate new than used and that will more than likely happen) over the life of the loan I was going to pay approximately $500 more in the new Jeep. So over the life of the Jeep I will pay say approximately $3,000 more (using round numbers for simplicity). Keep in mind I purchased with the idea that I plan on having this Jeep for a very very very very very long time. I am not one to trade a car in every few years. Now I'm one that would rather spend the extra $3k becuase I am still under warranty, I can buy the manufacturers extended warranty (which I did), don't have to worry about what the previous owner did with the car and I also get a newer model. You see in my situation it only makes sense to buy the newer model based on the above. So yes your flawed in your arguments first in the sense that the majority of people do not and can not purpose a car in cash, but if you can obviously that is the best decision. You say if you don't have the car the first two years your better off? Well that depends on what you paid, your plans for the car are etc. You say you have seen 1.9% on used cars. Not something that happens frequently and 99.9% of people will not qualify for that, and more often than not that is just a publicity stunt they advertise just to get people into their showrooms. Most people that buy cars even with good credit especially right now are looking at 6.5% at best. New cars you can get significantly lower than that.

With all this said I am extremely fiscally responsible. I don't have any credit card debt or anything of that nature. I just have my new jeep, my home and my college loans. I also save approximately 40% of my personal income.
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Old 02-05-2010, 07:58 PM   #21
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Silvrevo: I understand what you're probably going through. I know you would probably get a real good deal on the leftover year that did NOT have the new Pentastar. Face it, the Pentastar will be a major leap forward and in terms of power, will be lightyears from the current 202hp Wrangler. The difference is almost 40% more horsepower! I also suspect the traditional value of used Wranglers might drop a bit as soon as the 280hp becomes the standard. On the other side of the coin, buying the last year for the 202hp engine could be a good value because you could negotiate better (dealers know everyone will want the new engine so they'll be more likely to make a good deal on the older model); also, the current 202hp engine, though slow, is a fairly proven engine. We know nothing about the reliability of this Pentastar. It could be great, or a problem-prone engine. Finally, for what it's worth...I test drove both the Wrangler and Wrangler Unlimited, and then the Toyota FJ Cruiser. The Cruiser doesn't have the "character" of the Wrangler...but it has a couple of good things: 1) stronger engine which just increased this year to about 250hp; 2) Outstanding reliability (which the Wrangler does not according to consumers' magazines); 3) Like the Wrangler, it is well-engineered which was possible due to its long history and lineage. Anyway, I am going to wait and try the new Wrangler, then a few other vehicles. At my age (over 60), I figure if I ever am going to get a Jeep, this NEW series with the Pentastar is likely to be the very best Wrangler. Good luck.
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Old 02-05-2010, 08:32 PM   #22
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Yh I understand what your saying but I'm specifically speaking about financing. Obviously buying cash will save you. Also depending on what your buying for. Are you planning on trading it in down the road? Are you going to keep it til it shits the bed? Trust me I work in finance and investments. 99.999999999% you will get a better finance rate on a new car than a used one. Seeing that I just shopped Wranglers becuase I just bought mine I found that on average (primarily for a stock Jeep) that after everything was said in done a brand new Jeep would cost me about $2.5k more than used (good at negotiating ). The used ones I were looking at were about minimum 29k-30k miles. Also most of the financing I looked at was over 7 years. When comparing the rates I got (I got a better rate new than used and that will more than likely happen) over the life of the loan I was going to pay approximately $500 more in the new Jeep. So over the life of the Jeep I will pay say approximately $3,000 more (using round numbers for simplicity). Keep in mind I purchased with the idea that I plan on having this Jeep for a very very very very very long time. I am not one to trade a car in every few years. Now I'm one that would rather spend the extra $3k becuase I am still under warranty, I can buy the manufacturers extended warranty (which I did), don't have to worry about what the previous owner did with the car and I also get a newer model. You see in my situation it only makes sense to buy the newer model based on the above. So yes your flawed in your arguments first in the sense that the majority of people do not and can not purpose a car in cash, but if you can obviously that is the best decision. You say if you don't have the car the first two years your better off? Well that depends on what you paid, your plans for the car are etc. You say you have seen 1.9% on used cars. Not something that happens frequently and 99.9% of people will not qualify for that, and more often than not that is just a publicity stunt they advertise just to get people into their showrooms. Most people that buy cars even with good credit especially right now are looking at 6.5% at best. New cars you can get significantly lower than that.

With all this said I am extremely fiscally responsible. I don't have any credit card debt or anything of that nature. I just have my new jeep, my home and my college loans. I also save approximately 40% of my personal income.
I thought the purpose of a forum was to get different ideas from different people, not make everyone submit to your own ideas. I don't know what your on me for, silv was asking the question. I'm not saying your fiscally irresponsible and I'm not saying your way of buying jeeps is wrong... this is just my experience and like I said my 2 cents!
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Old 02-05-2010, 09:13 PM   #23
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You are entitled to your opinion and that is what is great. I just find, especially working in finance, that all these self help books are very generic and not always accurate. I was just pointing out that it is not always logically to go with a used over new. You talk about this so called stupid tax but what is dumb about the situation I posted. Not to be rude but I feel your just reiterating something some dude wrote to nake money for himself. For the above example I would write off the 2500 I paid extra because figure it this way. If a jeeps life is 15 years (normally posted in miles but let's for simplicity say years). I will get 13 out of the used and 15 out of the new. So I recover those extra costs in the extra life I get (I hope lol). But I still get the a factory warranty when the used doesn't. So in essence I really only paid 500 more yet got a newer model and one that was never beat by someone else. From a cost basis seNse your argument, in this case doesn't hold water. Not calling you out because in some cases your argument may very well hold true. All depends on the situation. Just trying to share my knowledge my man. We can always agree to disagree. Now to the OP f you were completey psyched by the current jeep or any other cars and you don't need a car then I would def hold off to see what happens regarding the new engine. Sorry if this is all jumbled but using my phone right now lol. PS Sorry politics and finance get me riled up lol
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Old 02-06-2010, 03:57 PM   #24
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Wasn't the original topic about when we might expect the Pentastar V6 in the Wrangler? I'm in the same boat as silvrevo... I'm waiting to get into a new Jeep but holding out for that new engine. Sure, I could buy a used one or even a new one right now but if there's a chance that we are getting a new, more powerful engine that even gets better mileage, I'm willing to wait a few months. If it isn't released in the 2011 model, then yeah, I'll probably look for a used model and drive it until the Pentastar is out.

Sooooo, any new rumors on our new powerplant?
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Old 02-06-2010, 06:32 PM   #25
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DGriz: Little is known about the Pentastar other than what we see on allpar.com, or what we read in trade magazines. All I know is that if they keep the 280hp there for the Wrangler, like the Grand Cherokee, it will be a hefty increase (almost 40%). Interior improvements are secondary to the powerplant change, I think. Also, this engine is supposed to be DI (direct injection). Allpar implies this is a little louder but is fine for Wrangler and the Ram truck since a soft, purry engine isn't a high priority for most Wrangler owners. If it is, they're probably looking at the wrong vehicle. Personally, I am going to wait whether they stick the Pentastar in the 2011 (this fall) or the 2012 model since I have an old Explorer. But it seems obvious to me that this will be a major shift for Jeep, going to a more powerful, more fuel efficient, easier-to-maintain engine (such as an oil filter element consumers can change easily themselves). And, this engine breaks with what has traditionally been relatively weak 4 and 6 cylinder Wrangler engines. As I mentioned in one of my previous replies, the downside is that the Pentastar could be a lemon of an engine, despite all the testing that Chrysler has done. The good news is, though, that any initial "bugs" will probably be worked out on those who are now buying the Grand Cherokee. (Remember Toyota had cam bearing problems with their big V8...turned out to be a supplier...but they fixed it quickly). Same here. If there are any problems with this engine, Chrysler will fix them fast as they simply cannot afford any problems since they're corporate life is just hanging by a thread. I don't know too much about this engine, but maybe others do. I welcome their input. Good luck, DGriz, and if you can hold out until the Pentastar hits market, I would think you'd be happier than getting something less desirable sooner.
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Old 02-07-2010, 02:38 PM   #26
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^ its not going to be in the wrangler till 2012 at the very soonest. imagine like Bob said above if this engine turns out to have some kind of a huge problem they dont want to have their flagship jeep, the wrangler, to have a lame engine. chrysler/fiat needs some real world testing of the engine to see how it will hold up before they go around putting it into all of their vehicals. most other new engines have taken at least a year or two before the manufacturer can be happy with it and start relying on it. just my 2 cents
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Old 02-09-2010, 03:19 PM   #27
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I just finished reading an article on allpar.com about the 5 year plan from Chrysler and they had this to say about the Jeep:
At Jeep, Grand Cherokee leads. Compass and Patriot are having new exteriors for 2010, Wrangler will “retain its rightful spot as the icon for this legendary brand.” Exterior styling will be modified and a dramatic new interior will be put in; a new powertrain will go in for 2011. 2011 is Jeep’s 70th anniversary and special editions will be made for each model.
The full article can be found at:
The Chrysler Five Year Plan (November 2009)

It sure sounds promising for the 2011 Jeep Wrangler. Unfortunately, production is not due to begin until September 2010. I guess I'll have to wait until Christmas for my factory ordered Wrangler (if they actually do what the article says, at least).
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:12 PM   #28
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What I got from the read was NEXT Summer,,,, but sometimes people mean next summer as a year out,,, not this summer? But isnt this summer the next summer?

Could go either way,,,, thats what she said...........

But really Im watching the death wooble threads,, on stock new wranglers first and formost. If they cant sort this out,, I dont really want to F with messing around for a fixx.

I wonder if there is a poll out there on death wobble? Or if anyone has taken print outs of this to the service managers at Jeep.

Cause sure as shiet,,,,,, dollars to doughnuts,, they will say,,, with thier thumb up thier bumm,,, I havnt heard of this before,,, wow,,, news to me... Jerkoff service and sales people!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:20 PM   #29
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That article also says diesels will be in all Jeeps and we know now that they were not talking about the US market. Just because something is on Allpar doesn't mean it's gosple. I'll believe it when I see it or an official announcement from Jeep. Either way it doesn't affect me. I am perfectly happy with my 3.8.
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:30 PM   #30
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Allpar

Daggo66 is right about allpar not being gospel; however, they usually have a pretty good handle on what's going on at Chrysler since they have pretty good connections within the company. Of course, the CEO of Chrysler is from Fiat and they may have different ideas. It does look like diesel is out of the picture for the Wrangler for the North American market which is a shame, I think, as a lot of folks would like to have the option. As Silvrevo said, the dealer people are next to useless for advice, information, etc. Their job is to push the current crop no matter how good or bad it is. I know first hand. I made the mistake of buying an extended warranty from Ford for way too much money. Tried to make a claim last month on an item that the brochure says is covered and Ford won't let the dealer cover it. Dealer has no spine to go back to Ford, so I filed a complaint with the Michigan Better Business Bureau. I have little hope of anything positive but remember, dealers are the mouthpieces for the manufacturer. For Wrangler, trust allpar or sites such as TruckTrend.com for the latest news for Wrangler and Wrangler-type vehicles. They're not perfect but they beat any dealer I know of.

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