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Old 09-25-2010, 10:54 PM   #1
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Pentastar..why not hemi

Why would anyone want to upgrade a 2-4 year old vehicle just for 90 horsepower gains and an untested motor? (for those saying they were waiting for the pentastar to buy a 2011)

It would be cheaper to get a hemi installed into your jk, then buy a whole new (unmodified) jeep, and the power gains would be much more significant.

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Old 09-25-2010, 11:02 PM   #2
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How do you figure it would be cheaper?....Buying a new Hemi engine, a transmission, computer, wiring harness, new driveshafts, motor mounts, upgrade cooling system. Then pay for a reputable shop to do the install the "right" way.

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Old 09-26-2010, 01:27 AM   #3
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What? Pay a shop to do the install?
Never, I will install it myself. Used engines & transmissions are becoming readily more available and prices are getting cheaper.
With patience and good Internet surfing skills it is possible to swap one out for $5000 to $10000 bucks, then sell the 3.8 to a minivan owner and recoup some of yo money.
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Old 09-26-2010, 04:13 AM   #4
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Umm, what? Who's talking about a Pentastar swap? Haven't heard of anyone talking about that one... Yet Anyway, they're not out for the JK yet, so there's ZERO demand for this swap. Even so, since it'll be designed to go into a JK, it will garuanteedly be cheaper than a Hemi swap- the cheapest complete DIY job I've seen for one of those was $12 THOUSAND, by the way. Not to mention the WEEKS he spent doing it himself. As for re-selling the 3.8, you'll be lucky to get $1,500 for engine/trans.

This one was out there... Mark W.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:14 AM   #5
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Umm, what? Who's talking about a Pentastar swap? Haven't heard of anyone talking about that one... Yet Anyway, they're not out for the JK yet, so there's ZERO demand for this swap. Even so, since it'll be designed to go into a JK, it will garuanteedly be cheaper than a Hemi swap- the cheapest complete DIY job I've seen for one of those was $12 THOUSAND, by the way. Not to mention the WEEKS he spent doing it himself. As for re-selling the 3.8, you'll be lucky to get $1,500 for engine/trans.

This one was out there... Mark W.

No I meant I've seen a lot of posts that say "I was going to buy a new JK but it doesn't have the pentastar so I'm not buying" in in their tag lines they list the JK they already own..

If HP and torque are what you want the upgrade for, instead of spending $20,000-30000 on a new JK why not drop a hemi in your existing JK for that kind of coin and get massive power gains.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:57 AM   #6
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A warranty, a newer rig, and I bet most of those folks are trading in, so hopefully they're not $20-30K upside down! I don't mean to crap on your ideas here, just to point some light on what the other side is- Mark W.
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Old 09-26-2010, 09:00 AM   #7
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A warranty, a newer rig, and I bet most of those folks are trading in, so hopefully they're not $20-30K upside down! I don't mean to crap on your ideas here, just to point some light on what the other side is- Mark W.

that makes sense, I forgot about the trade-in value..
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:16 PM   #8
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No worries- that's why they pay me the big bucks Mark W.
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:25 PM   #9
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What? Pay a shop to do the install?
Never, I will install it myself. Used engines & transmissions are becoming readily more available and prices are getting cheaper.
With patience and good Internet surfing skills it is possible to swap one out for $5000 to $10000 bucks, then sell the 3.8 to a minivan owner and recoup some of yo money.
I would do it myself as well, but the average person doesnt have the tools, knowledge or the patience and understanding to do the job the right way. Or the balls to tear apart a new jeep and install a drivetrain that doesnt belong in there.
Alot of projects like that get abandon because of people who think they can do it...then quickly realize they cant, lol.
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:31 PM   #10
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^ And that's when you pick them up off of Craigslist for under $500 and ROCK IT OUT! Mark W.
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Old 09-26-2010, 01:35 PM   #11
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exactley, lol
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Old 09-26-2010, 02:21 PM   #12
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Why not an srt8 model with airbags. Like the old lambo lm 400!!!!
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:00 PM   #13
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Why not an srt8 model with airbags. Like the old lambo lm 400!!!!
What effect do you think that would have on their fleet MPG rating considering the Wrangler's aerodynamics? That's why you'll never see a factory Hemi Wrangler.
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Old 09-26-2010, 03:11 PM   #14
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Wrangler Rubicon Unlimited SRT8 MSRP $49,998 City-10mpg, Highway-15mpg

I would probably still buy one though. It would need a 6sp auto too
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Old 09-26-2010, 04:18 PM   #15
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Hi tom!
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by FlyinJeeps View Post
Why would anyone want to upgrade a 2-4 year old vehicle just for 90 horsepower gains and an untested motor? (for those saying they were waiting for the pentastar to buy a 2011)

It would be cheaper to get a hemi installed into your jk, then buy a whole new (unmodified) jeep, and the power gains would be much more significant.

It does seem silly that they are going to put a "new" V6 in instead of a Hemi.

Any V6 is just going to be lacking what a Jeep needs. TORQUE.

I say keep the current V6 & offer the Hemi as an option. They wouldn't be able to make enough of them.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:10 PM   #17
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:16 PM   #18
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This is what I was told on Friday by someone that seems to know what he's talking about. He said that if they put the hemi in at the factory, they'd basically have to turn it into a durango...no more doors that come off or removable tops. I forget all the technical reasons he had for it, but that's the basic thing he said. And that's why they're doing the Penta...more power out of not a larger engine.
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Old 09-26-2010, 08:51 PM   #19
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This is what I was told on Friday by someone that seems to know what he's talking about. He said that if they put the hemi in at the factory, they'd basically have to turn it into a durango...no more doors that come off or removable tops. I forget all the technical reasons he had for it, but that's the basic thing he said. And that's why they're doing the Penta...more power out of not a larger engine.
Actually he seems to be full of crap. Hemi conversions are done all the time and have no effect on doors off or tops removed. He actually sounds like an idiot. The reason is so obvious that I can't believe it's even a discussion. As I said earlier it's obvious that it would lower the fleet MPG number. Regulation are forcing the number ever higher and a company can't afford an esoteric option that would put a dent in that number.
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Old 09-26-2010, 09:06 PM   #20
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I'm not so sure. It seemed to make sense at the time. Not that hemi-conversions aren't done...I know they are and even looked into it. He was just saying that so many other changes would have to be made that it'd turn more into a Durango than a Wrangler if it were from the factory.

That being said, I'm just repeating what someone said to me that's a hell of a lot more informed about these things than I.
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Old 09-26-2010, 09:14 PM   #21
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I'm not so sure. It seemed to make sense at the time. Not that hemi-conversions aren't done...I know they are and even looked into it. He was just saying that so many other changes would have to be made that it'd turn more into a Durango than a Wrangler if it were from the factory.

That being said, I'm just repeating what someone said to me that's a hell of a lot more informed about these things than I.
Sorry, but that still makes no sense.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:14 PM   #22
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Sorry, but that still makes no sense.
I concur. I dont see how having a larger engine affects door removal and soft tops. Jeep used to put a small block v8 in wranglers long before hard tops were even offered. Not to mention there would be no convertable vipers if engine size meant no soft tops, vipers have v-10s.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:27 PM   #23
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I'll try to talk to him again. Could have something to do with more stringent safety regs then way back when the CJ's had V-8's. Center of gravity is much much lower in a viper that could effect things too. Like I said, it made sense when he was telling me and I'll see if I can get more details.
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Old 09-26-2010, 10:30 PM   #24
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I concur. I dont see how having a larger engine affects door removal and soft tops. Jeep used to put a small block v8 in wranglers long before hard tops were even offered. Not to mention there would be no convertable vipers if engine size meant no soft tops, vipers have v-10s.
The last V8's from Jeep (factory installed) died in the late 70's and very early 80's with the AMC 304 V8, not Wranglers....
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Old 09-27-2010, 06:56 AM   #25
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True, and even then it was because of MPG issues. I was there for the '79 gas crisis.
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Old 09-27-2010, 03:44 PM   #26
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Hans:
The reason your misguided informant thinks more torque would be an issue for a convertible is he's thinking of a unibody vehicle. If you cut the top and doors off of a unibody vehicle, twisting becomes a major concern.
With a body-on-frame construction, like a Wrangler, it's a non-issue, as the frame handles the bending resistance.

Your informant has no concept of what he's talking, if he mistakes a Wrangler for a unibody vehicle. Tell him to go to auto tech 101 and bone up!

As for why there's not a Hemi in the JK from the factory- the fuel economy (if driven properly, and not like a hoon) isn't even that much worse than the 3.8. Most get 15-17 MPG average, if geared properly. The issues with offering the 3.8 and Hemi are these:

New motor mounts for the Hemi
Whole new engine/trans wiring harness
Fuel economy (not as crucial)
Insurance group bump
Price bump (according to my old Mopar rep, $5-7K per vehicle)
Ammortization costs of R&D, crash testing, certification, etc. add up to ~$5-700 per vehicle (with or without Hemi)
Beefier axles, driveshafts, etc. to handle the extra torque
Not to mention tuning it for the JK, the time (time, for a car corp. = $$$$) to get it right, warranty crap, blah blah blah blah...

COULD they do it? Sure. But it's not for everyone. While there are maybe one or two thousand people (read: us ) who would give their eye teeth for a Hemi JK, the other 95% of buyers wouldn't want one. It's called take rate. How many people buy a vehicle built with option X. Hell, Ferrari doesn't offer a manual transmission in its latest V8 smaller monster, because take rate in the F430 was ~5%. And their 5% is paying a WHOLE LOT more than we 5% who would be buying a Hemi JK.

That's why the aftermarket caters to the hardcore set. Jeep could easily make a JK with Dana 60's front and rear, a 5.13 gears, Hemi, 37" tires, etc. How many would they sell? Not enough to cover costs. Simple as that- Mark W.
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Old 09-27-2010, 05:38 PM   #27
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Makes a lot of sense...thanks. I will ask the guy next time I talk to him though...just out of curiosity.
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:43 PM   #28
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That's why the aftermarket caters to the hardcore set. Jeep could easily make a JK with Dana 60's front and rear, a 5.13 gears, Hemi, 37" tires, etc. How many would they sell? Not enough to cover costs. Simple as that- Mark W.
Which causes a catch-22 because Jeep knows the few who do want the Hemi can get it after-market.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:33 AM   #29
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Well, having spoken to my Mopar rep extensively, there's a reason the crate Hemi engines are so expensive- they know they have us by the balls on it Mark W.
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Old 09-28-2010, 08:49 AM   #30
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we here do not necessarily represent the average wrangler owner anymore. the average wrangler owner used to drive a car, or a truck, or a minivan or something they could drive carelessly and electronic gizmos would step in and keep them from killing themselves. you put a hemi in a short wheelbase wrangler and people will either kill themselves or there will be so much electronic nannying that you'd end up back at the same place you started power wise before adding a ton of weight to the front end.

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