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Old 12-09-2013, 12:33 PM   #1
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Question for those that say stock tires are ok in winter

Can I have some of what you're smoking

Seriously, I put on my dedicated snow tires yesterday (Cooper Discoverer Snow/studded) for the first time on my 2013 JK Rubi and could not believe the difference over the stock Mud Terrains. Granted, I live in NW Montana where it has been between -20 and +5 degrees F the last two weeks, with snow and ice. The difference between the two tires is stark and undeniable. With the studded Coopers I could go places in 2WD that I barely could in 4wd with the BFG's. In 4wd this thing is almost unstoppable with the Coopers...on sheer ice it took effort to get it to drift and I was trying

I can only surmise that those that say the stock tires, especially the Rubi Mud Terrains, are just fine in winter either live in Florida or Texas where you get 3" of snow every 10 years, or have simply never driven with dedicated winter/studded snow tires. I'm only busting balls, I don't expect people who live in areas that get little snow/ice to shell out for a set of dedicated winter wheels/tires. Those that do and claim the oem tires "are just fine" don't kid yourselves, the difference is MASSIVE.

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Old 12-09-2013, 12:41 PM   #2
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I am in Missoula and fortuneatly it has been really nice 70* and sunny but that was months ago lol. On my 2013 jku I was running Wild Country XTX they have the snow flake rating and they stuck almost like studs. (been driving since the early 70's in Montana) but studded tires are the best on our roads, I have studded tires on the Subaru and the Mazda that my kids drive. I have been impressed with the Toyo Open Country A/T 2's on my jkur so far. Been up snow shoeing and skiing lolo pass a bunch and so far so good. Where are you at in NW Montana?

My buddy Willie Worthy runs stock Rubicon BFG that have been sipped by Les Schwabb and says they do great.

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Old 12-09-2013, 12:48 PM   #3
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I am in Missoula and fortuneatly it has been really nice 70* and sunny but that was months ago lol. On my 2013 jku I was running Wild Country XTX they have the snow flake rating and they stuck almost like studs. (been driving since the early 70's in Montana) but studded tires are the best on our roads, I have studded tires on the Subaru and the Mazda that my kids drive. I have been impressed with the Toyo Open Country A/T 2's on my jkur so far. Been up snow shoeing and skiing lolo pass a bunch and so far so good. Where are you at in NW Montana?

My buddy Willie Worthy runs stock Rubicon BFG that have been sipped by Les Schwabb and says they do great.
I'm near Kalispell. Where I tested the Coopers yesterday was all compacted snow/ice a couple inches thick on rolling hills with sheer drop-offs with no barriers of any kind. No way would I trust my life in these conditions to a Mud Terrain tire, whether siped or sprinkled with magic fairy dust.
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:00 PM   #4
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I'd still say mt's are ok for winter. Ok doesn't mean better or even equal, just ok. With some common sense I can get around safer than a texting soccer mom on the worlds best snow tires. I live in the first or second snowiest city in the US, but usually the roads are cleared quickly or it's ongoing snow and deep on the road, only occasionally is it packed snow or ice. I'd agree snow tires are 100 percent better and driving in the conditions you describe would be worth it, but unless we get a killer winter it's not worth 1500 bucks to me.
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:02 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by BigSkyJeep View Post
Can I have some of what you're smoking

Seriously, I put on my dedicated snow tires yesterday (Cooper Discoverer Snow/studded) for the first time on my 2013 JK Rubi and could not believe the difference over the stock Mud Terrains. Granted, I live in NW Montana where it has been between -20 and +5 degrees F the last two weeks, with snow and ice. The difference between the two tires is stark and undeniable. With the studded Coopers I could go places in 2WD that I barely could in 4wd with the BFG's. In 4wd this thing is almost unstoppable with the Coopers...on sheer ice it took effort to get it to drift and I was trying

I can only surmise that those that say the stock tires, especially the Rubi Mud Terrains, are just fine in winter either live in Florida or Texas where you get 3" of snow every 10 years, or have simply never driven with dedicated winter/studded snow tires. I'm only busting balls, I don't expect people who live in areas that get little snow/ice to shell out for a set of dedicated winter wheels/tires. Those that do and claim the oem tires "are just fine" don't kid yourselves, the difference is MASSIVE.
I don't think anyone would argue about snows being better. But a smart driver with stock tires will do just fine
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:15 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by BigSkyJeep View Post
I'm near Kalispell. Where I tested the Coopers yesterday was all compacted snow/ice a couple inches thick on rolling hills with sheer drop-offs with no barriers of any kind. No way would I trust my life in these conditions to a Mud Terrain tire, whether siped or sprinkled with magic fairy dust.
How is that off road trail up there? I heard it is pretty fun.
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:17 PM   #7
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Took mine out this morning with a good coat of ice on the roads and my stocks did just fine. I was prepared for the worst based on what I read here but was pleasantly surprised.

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Old 12-09-2013, 01:21 PM   #8
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OP is kind of comparing soup to nuts though....stock MT to a STUDDED snow tire...... yup.... sure as hell will be a world of difference. I still find that my MT/R's work pretty damn good for snow wheeling.... probably better than some... probably not as goods as some others. If you are a highway wheeler; the studs work good; out in the hills, not so much. But in some conditions they may help.
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:37 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by BigSkyJeep View Post
I'm near Kalispell. Where I tested the Coopers yesterday was all compacted snow/ice a couple inches thick on rolling hills with sheer drop-offs with no barriers of any kind. No way would I trust my life in these conditions to a Mud Terrain tire, whether siped or sprinkled with magic fairy dust.
Stock MT's on my Rubi are just fine on ice and snow. BigSly, be careful around those sheer deadly drop-offs. Even your magic fairy Coopers cannot repeal the laws of physics!
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:57 PM   #10
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Stock MT's on my Rubi are just fine on ice and snow. BigSly, be careful around those sheer deadly drop-offs. Even your magic fairy Coopers cannot repeal the laws of physics!
Haha, no doubt the laws of physics are applicable to me too. Appreciate the heads up though, lol.

Have you ever driven with dedicated snow tires, never mind studded? Do a back to back drive with them like I did yesterday, same roads, and you too would appreciate the difference. Stock tires don't cut it where I live. Could I get by with them? Probably, but not worth the risk to me, and it is a big risk.
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Old 12-09-2013, 01:59 PM   #11
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How is that off road trail up there? I heard it is pretty fun.
Which one? There's a ton of them up my way. To be honest lately I've been tackling them in my Brute Force 750. Almost as sure footed as the Rubi
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:01 PM   #12
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:05 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSkyJeep View Post
Can I have some of what you're smoking
I've said it in other threads but I'll repeat it here. We bought our 2013 Sahara last Decemeber. Shortly after that we had an unusual snowstorm that dumped 14" of snow on us. Our little Rosie handled wonderfully in 4H through it all. We had fun driving around and looking for any unplowed parking lots.

Absolutely no need for any dedicated snow tires for us. Since buying our Jeep it is the first time my wife has actually looked forward to bad weather so she can drive in it. She loves any excuse to put Rosie into 4H mode.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:06 PM   #14
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wild bill/blacktail
Yep, it's about 30 min from me.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:15 PM   #15
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I don't think anyone would argue about snows being better. But a smart driver with stock tires will do just fine

I agree!
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:26 PM   #16
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I've said it in other threads but I'll repeat it here. We bought our 2013 Sahara last Decemeber. Shortly after that we had an unusual snowstorm that dumped 14" of snow on us. Our little Rosie handled wonderfully in 4H through it all. We had fun driving around and looking for any unplowed parking lots.

Absolutely no need for any dedicated snow tires for us. Since buying our Jeep it is the first time my wife has actually looked forward to bad weather so she can drive in it. She loves any excuse to put Rosie into 4H mode.
What are stockers on the Sahara? I can see the Rubi MT's doing well in purely deep snow, but add ice and it changes everything. Stock tires just get too hard in cold weather and lack the siping necessary to do well in very cold weather.

I will agree, this is totally dependent on your driving conditions. All I know is that for the piece of mind and safety, the $1300 I spent is well worth it. People drop that without thinking twice for purely cosmetic things like bumpers, lights, etc.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:32 PM   #17
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big diff between Bridgestone stock sahara rubber and stock bfg rubi rubber on ice.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:40 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BigSkyJeep View Post
What are stockers on the Sahara? I can see the Rubi MT's doing well in purely deep snow, but add ice and it changes everything. Stock tires just get too hard in cold weather and lack the siping necessary to do well in very cold weather.

I will agree, this is totally dependent on your driving conditions. All I know is that for the piece of mind and safety, the $1300 I spent is well worth it. People drop that without thinking twice for purely cosmetic things like bumpers, lights, etc.
Stockers on the Sahara are Bridgestone Duelers...decent AT tires with plenty of sipes. A few people with Rubi's purchased Sahara take off's from Craigslist as winter/highway wheels....mostly because they can found for farily cheap and are easy swaps.

I'm very happy with mine in bad weather.

As for the MT's...it all depends on the conditiions as we all have our own definition of winter driving and what "good" is. Again, I'm very very happy with my Duelers, but I'm still probably go to GY SilentArmors next time around.

The tires (and the grey stuff between your ears) might be the most important piece of equipment you have for winter driving. No need to skimp.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:42 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by BigSkyJeep View Post
What are stockers on the Sahara? I can see the Rubi MT's doing well in purely deep snow, but add ice and it changes everything. Stock tires just get too hard in cold weather and lack the siping necessary to do well in very cold weather.

I will agree, this is totally dependent on your driving conditions. All I know is that for the piece of mind and safety, the $1300 I spent is well worth it. People drop that without thinking twice for purely cosmetic things like bumpers, lights, etc.
I don't agree that bumpers and lights and other accessories are purely cosmetic. But I do agree with you that vehicles that are going to spend alot of time on snow packed/icy roads should be running dedicated snows. We just drove from MT to CA and the worst roads were definetely leaving MT. CHP near the Reno pass were ridiculous. Requiring chains for vehicles without 4wd and snow tires on and the pass was limited to 30 mph. The roads really only had a light dusting in places and were clear to pavement in most. The pass was cleaner than our in town roads back home! So all perspective I guess. If your winters are longer than your summers, than snow tires make sense. If you see snow on the side of the road once a year, then you are likely ok just running MT and slowing down.
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:43 PM   #20
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big diff between Bridgestone stock sahara rubber and stock bfg rubi rubber on ice.
No doubt. The MT's are frightening on ice at 0 degrees. They are also extremely hard at this temp. Maybe our ice here in MT is different than other parts of the country
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Old 12-09-2013, 02:47 PM   #21
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We live in an area that snows once every 10 years, and Friday it snowed. We got two inches. So, I think our stock Rubi tires should work fine around here.

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Old 12-09-2013, 03:07 PM   #22
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I don't agree that bumpers and lights and other accessories are purely cosmetic. But I do agree with you that vehicles that are going to spend alot of time on snow packed/icy roads should be running dedicated snows. We just drove from MT to CA and the worst roads were definetely leaving MT. CHP near the Reno pass were ridiculous. Requiring chains for vehicles without 4wd and snow tires on and the pass was limited to 30 mph. The roads really only had a light dusting in places and were clear to pavement in most. The pass was cleaner than our in town roads back home! So all perspective I guess. If your winters are longer than your summers, than snow tires make sense. If you see snow on the side of the road once a year, then you are likely ok just running MT and slowing down.
Well put. I guess when I hear people that live in Colorado, upstate NY, MT, UT, etc. say that the stockers are perfectly acceptable and that careful driving is sufficient, I get to wondering. Of course, careful driving is paramount. But at some point physics take over and the stockers will absolutely, positively lose it before a dedicated winter tire does, studded or not. T
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:22 PM   #23
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Perspective...or as the Realtors do it, "Location, Location, Location."

Worst winter I remember here in IN was in 1978...yes very longtime ago....we had our Blizzard of '78...and it shut us down for 3 WHOLE DAYS...translation you couldn't take your basic rear wheel drive car to the grocery 'cause the snow was "too deep". Drifts 8'-10' were everywhere.

On Valentine's Day in '06 we got 9 inches of snow....shut the town down for about 12 hours...same thing happens every year for a few hours. We get 7"-10" and they "shut the town down" don't drive unless absolutely needed. Allows the plows to get through..we are down maybe 12-16 hours. And than back to normal, streets are clear etc. And honestly most of the time we only get 2-3 inches at a time..so yeah our OEM tires are fine.
We had GM build a truck plant here back in the early '80s. People transferred in from Wi...they laughed at us. Had one guy tell me he would shift in to 4wd in his truck around Thanksgiving and stay there till, "The Spring Thaw". He than explained that most of their roads in WI were snow covered all that time. Yeah he needs a Winter tire up there down here....umm not so much.

Honestly I bet we don't have 30 days in the year of "snow covered/ or packed roads".
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:26 PM   #24
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I live in north NJ. Born and raised. We get a lot of snow. I would take an AT tire all day, every day, over a MT in the snow.

However, comparing studded tires to a non-studded tires is like comparing the off-roading abilities of my Wrangler compared to my old Pontiac Sunfire.
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Old 12-09-2013, 03:34 PM   #25
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Worst winter I remember here in IN was in 1978...yes very longtime ago....we had our Blizzard of '78...and it shut us down for 3 WHOLE DAYS...translation you couldn't take your basic rear wheel drive car to the grocery 'cause the snow was "too deep". Drifts 8'-10' were everywhere.

On Valentine's Day in '06 we got 9 inches of snow....shut the town down for about 12 hours...same thing happens every year for a few hours. We get 7"-10" and they "shut the town down" don't drive unless absolutely needed. Allows the plows to get through..we are down maybe 12-16 hours. And than back to normal, streets are clear etc. And honestly most of the time we only get 2-3 inches at a time..so yeah our OEM tires are fine.
We had GM build a truck plant here back in the early '80s. People transferred in from Wi...they laughed at us. Had one guy tell me he would shift in to 4wd in his truck around Thanksgiving and stay there till, "The Spring Thaw". He than explained that most of their roads in WI were snow covered all that time. Yeah he needs a Winter tire up there down here....umm not so much.

Honestly I bet we don't have 30 days in the year of "snow covered/ or packed roads".
That must have been the infamous "storm of the century". Back before every bad storm was referred to as the "storm of the century". I was 7 and living in Arlington, VA and remember snow drifts taller, much taller than me. My folks poor Plymouth Cordoba was helplessly stuck for what seemed a week.

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