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Old 03-19-2011, 10:18 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by WatchThis! View Post
Really. what about the 4to1 crawl ratio. and the dana44. and the sway bar disco's. I know this thread is talking about a DD but if that was the case all you would need to "Make it a rubicon" is a sticker on the hood. I agree not every one needs a rubi but to the folks that do or think they do the extra money is well spent.
Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

Get the Rubi.

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Old 03-19-2011, 10:26 PM   #32
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I agree sunshine

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Old 03-19-2011, 10:29 PM   #33
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i think its worth it. lockers saved me a few times today at the push of a button
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Old 03-19-2011, 11:46 PM   #34
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Obviously the lift and tires will affect street performance regardless My point in that is; does the Rubicon gearing, etc. decrease the affect of this at all.
I'm not a JK expert, but for your needs it seems you would be doing the lift/tires pretty much because it looks cool, which is o.k., it's your Jeep. In that case take JIMBO and GroundHawgs advice and get a Sahara or Sport. All you will need to do is regear, which won't cost 7K. If I'm mistaken someone will correct me. I'm more familiar with TJ's.
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:53 AM   #35
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I made the exact same move a few months ago when switching from a Tundra to a Sahara UNL. It sounds like you are mostly looking for the same features I was which was a nice DD but one that could go just about anywhere. The Sahara had all of the features/upgrades I was looking for. I immediatly upgraded the rims to 18X9's and put 33's on it as well as a Teraflex leveling kit and I cant tell that there is any performance reduction and the MPG barely changed. Will I regret not buying a Rubi? I hope not but I cant imagine I will.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:25 AM   #36
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I wouldn't trade the Rubicon, but I never had any intention of doing anything other than the 2.5 inch lift with 33's Everything else except some body mods will remain the same.

That being said, I justified buying a Rubi by getting one that had been on the lot for six months and they were willing to sell it at invoice. I would not pay any additional mark-up.

At the end of the day, the Rubicon does have some better resale value according to KBB.

Question:
I am comparing a Teraflex 2.5 inch lift with a 2.5 inch leveling kit. Anyone carer to educate me on the pros/cons?
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:13 PM   #37
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Another thing to consider if you 'mod' a Sport/Sahara to quasi-Rubicon levels:

The possible loss of warranty coverage to the modded systems.

Offer $400 over employee price, drive down your costs, and get what you really want.

Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate!!

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Old 03-20-2011, 08:33 PM   #38
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I'm not a JK expert, but for your needs it seems you would be doing the lift/tires pretty much because it looks cool, which is o.k., it's your Jeep. In that case take JIMBO and GroundHawgs advice and get a Sahara or Sport. All you will need to do is regear, which won't cost 7K. If I'm mistaken someone will correct me. I'm more familiar with TJ's.
You are correct pokey! My primary goal in the lift/ tires is that it looks cool!!! I'm sure that I will become more and more adventurous as the years add up and I pay the note down. I truly appreciate all of your advice!
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:37 PM   #39
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I made the exact same move a few months ago when switching from a Tundra to a Sahara UNL. It sounds like you are mostly looking for the same features I was which was a nice DD but one that could go just about anywhere. The Sahara had all of the features/upgrades I was looking for. I immediatly upgraded the rims to 18X9's and put 33's on it as well as a Teraflex leveling kit and I cant tell that there is any performance reduction and the MPG barely changed. Will I regret not buying a Rubi? I hope not but I cant imagine I will.
Great minds think alike....
Great looking ride you've got there! What brand are the tires and wheels?(Fuel?) Are you happy with the Teraflax leveling kit?
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:39 PM   #40
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[QUOTE=AgtSunshine;1128168]Another thing to consider if you 'mod' a Sport/Sahara to quasi-Rubicon levels:

The possible loss of warranty coverage to the modded systems.

Offer $400 over employee price, drive down your costs, and get what you really want.

Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate!!

I was thinking about the warranty issue! Is there any way of finding out the employee price so that I know what to shoot for?
Thanks!!
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:22 PM   #41
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[QUOTE=11Unlimited;1128400]
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Originally Posted by AgtSunshine View Post
Another thing to consider if you 'mod' a Sport/Sahara to quasi-Rubicon levels:

The possible loss of warranty coverage to the modded systems.

Offer $400 over employee price, drive down your costs, and get what you really want.

Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate!!

I was thinking about the warranty issue! Is there any way of finding out the employee price so that I know what to shoot for?
Thanks!!
Your question will open up a discussion in this thread about a discount called 'Tread Lightly' which is a green warm and fuzzy initiative you can sign up for that will garner a discount. The price is good but I believe the whole program is a diversion to aid the dealers in avoiding painful negotiating. With some savvy, you can do better.

First, a brief MBA crash in negotiation:
In negotiation theory (NT), both parties establish 'stakes' early on (yours should be low, the dealer's will high) to define a price range called the Zone Of Possible Agreement (ZOPA).

It is said that you have more leverage in a negotiation when you have alternatives. IE: The option to go to OTHER DEALERS. In NT, having this is called Best Alternative To Negotiated Agreement (BATNA). Be prepared to be a cold-hearted business man/woman by broadcasting this!!

Now...

When you sit down at the dealer and list out the options you want, you should be presented with a sheet that lists what you've requested and then some different prices.

Each price will have a different code on it (Pat would know the codes better than I) but they are something like 'FF' for Friends/Family and EPP for Employee.

Tell your dealer that you're eligible (not that you want) for Friends/Family through an out-of-state friend that works in a Chrysler plant.

It doesn't matter where b/c everyone is offered this price as a way for the dealer to 'buddy up' to you (whatever). YOU AND HE ARE NOT FRIENDS!

The dealer should then show you the price you're 'eligible' for (FF). He just established his high-end that he can't go back on.

You'll see a price right above or below that price for the employee price. It will be about $900 lower that the FF price.

Tell your dealer rep that you understand that just about everyone is eligible for the FF price (he may inadvertantly tell you this himself ) and that you're really determined to to do better.

If he stonewalls and states that you can't do better, ask if he can tell you where the 3 closest dealers are (don't seriously expect him to answer this) because you'd like to keep looking (BATNA). He may keep stone-walling which is fine...leave! Lazy salesmen don't last long anyways!

OR hopfully...he may run crying to his manager for help. If the manager comes over to 'see what it will take to get your business' see what he counters with. whoever comes back, it better be with something better than free oil changes and start with "-$".

As a basic goal, you want to get him lower than Friends because YOU AND HE 'AINT FRIENDS.

This is car business, not car friends!!

PS, rumor has it that the 'invoice' price on that sheet isn't really what the dealer paid.
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Old 03-21-2011, 08:17 AM   #42
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32" BFGoodrich mud terrain tires..17" aluminium wheels..front an rear D44..front and rear lockers..4:10 axle gearing..sway bar disconnect..4:1 transfer case..monotube shocks..
Seems worth it to me.
If you plan on buying a Jeep and replacing everything with aftermarket parts then buy a sport. If you want a jeep that's ready to go, and with a small lift or budget boost will perform like a beast on the trails...buy the rubicon.

Rubicon Envy..ain't it a bitch
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:36 PM   #43
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Great minds think alike....
Great looking ride you've got there! What brand are the tires and wheels?(Fuel?) Are you happy with the Teraflax leveling kit?[/QUOTE]

Thanks. They are Fuel Octane's. So far the Teraflex kit is great. It was easy to install and added the perfect amount of clearance for the 33's.
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Old 03-21-2011, 03:45 PM   #44
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You can get the invoice price from edmunds.com.
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Old 03-26-2011, 10:34 AM   #45
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I'm not a JK expert, but for your needs it seems you would be doing the lift/tires pretty much because it looks cool, which is o.k., it's your Jeep. In that case take JIMBO and GroundHawgs advice and get a Sahara or Sport. All you will need to do is regear, which won't cost 7K. If I'm mistaken someone will correct me. I'm more familiar with TJ's.
Isn't the gear-ratio a $0-option if you buy new?
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Old 03-26-2011, 06:02 PM   #46
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Never would put a Rubi down because they are great Jeeps but the argument over resale really isn't true though. After 4 years if you sale a same year Sport vs. Rubi, the Rubi will never get more then the $7000.00 difference back. A $7K more vehicle should resale for more but in reality won't get $7k more in the end. Myself the 3.73 gears are fine for my 33's and Lockers are going on soon.

Of course, a Rubi is awesome out of the box compared to a Sport but for $7k you can mod a sport very nice. For around $3K, you can beef up a Sport axles w/lockers and gears and have 4K to mod new tires bumpers and other mods you would do to a Rubicon also.
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Old 03-26-2011, 06:12 PM   #47
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Sorry, but here in calif. 2008 Wrangler Xs are listing at $7/8/9 Thousand LESS than stock 2008 Rubis ie: $18/19K Xs vs 28/29K for Rubis--

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Old 03-26-2011, 06:16 PM   #48
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Glad I am not California anymore then lol

But really it depend on what the options are for each. A stock (few options) sport is less then $25K too. In 2008 you could buy a base Sport for $20K
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Old 03-26-2011, 06:39 PM   #49
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Ok, so $7,000 difference. We can ignore the cost of lift and tires, since you plan on lifting either one.

Now, we need to justify 7 grand.

Gears are about $300 per set, you need a set for each axle. $600 plus another 500-600 labor, so we'll call it $1200. If you can install them (most can't) call it $600.

Lockers vary wildly. Let's give you a high end one. ARB air lockers are like $600 I think, install another 600 or so. You could get an Ox or some lunchbox locker much cheaper though.

We still have AT LEAST 3 grand to beef up the front D30. Shafts, gussets, and a sleeve will make that D30 equal to a D44. There's really not much difference between the 2.

Moral is that 7,000 extra buck you have can be used better if you decide where it goes instead of Jeep spending it for u on a front D44, electric lockers, and 4.11 gears.
Shafts, gussets and sleeves will not make it equal to a D44. The gear and pinion will still be a D30, and will be weaker. A D30 will give on the trail before the D44 - I have seen this and this is my experience. But you need to be playing in a pretty heavy rock garden for this to happen.

Also the Rubi has electronic disconnects which is very handy. And the Rubi maintains a higher resale value compared to the other two.

I may sound like I am a Rubi fan, this is not the case. I bought a sport myself. But then I plan to go prorocks becuase the D44 is not strong enough for me.
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Old 03-26-2011, 06:59 PM   #50
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Get an X then spend around 1300 to regear while your at it throw some selectable lockers for about 2000 front and back.For that kind of money spent on lockers it would be way better than the Rubi lockers.

Then add lift and tires which you will do even if you buy a Rubi...so in the end you have a much better rig than a Rubi with the exception of the 4:1 transfer case and E disco.Personally i prefer a Currie anti rock over the Edisco.Of course i say all that even tho i own a Rubi TJ but i bought it used and paid less than blue book.
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Old 03-26-2011, 07:13 PM   #51
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lol you prob won't find anyone. Nobody wants to admit they made a $30,000 mistake lol

I'm happy with my X

Nice 15" on the JK, those 18" and 17" inch wheels are so expensive to get big tires compared to 15"
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Old 03-26-2011, 07:21 PM   #52
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Nice 15" on the JK, those 18" and 17" inch wheels are so expensive to get big tires compared to 15"
Don't like 15" wheels. Prefer the stiffer sidewalls on a 17", but that's all it is, preference. Agree on 18"s though
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Old 03-26-2011, 07:58 PM   #53
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I believe in the current JP issue I just read covers this very well. In short all the editors point towards getting an X instead of the Rubicon. The X being a better all rounder where as the Rubicon is really a more narrow in use and most of the Rubicon's upgrades will be replaced by future mods depending on how you will use your jeep.
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Old 03-27-2011, 08:54 PM   #54
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Thanks for all of the advice everyone!
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Old 03-28-2011, 06:54 AM   #55
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@Groundhawg

Why buy a Rubicon if half the crap that makes it a Rubicon is just going to be swapped out, and another not really used?

Gears and a locker. That's all you need to add to that Sport to make it a Rubicon (after lift and tires which you're going to do anyway)[/QUOTE]

to make a sport a Rubi will cost more than what just buying a Rubi outright would cost.....the Rubi has a different transfer case with a 4:1 ratio unlike the sport. I don't know what you consider "Real" lockers to be, but last time I checked my wheels turned in syncronized fashion when locked(that would mean that my lockers do the same thing as the aftermarket lockers). The Dana 30 is fine for light wheeling, but over time if you wheel hard with larger tires it WILL have bent tubes and C's unless reinforced properly. the Dana 44 will do the same, it will just take longer for the problems to show up. the gears in the rubi are 4.10. basically I'd say if you plan on crawling get the rubi as it's the best base to start from. If you don't plan on crawling stick with the sport. If you were to go buy an Atlas transfer case, gears, lockers, Dana 44 front axle(new), electronic sway disconnect, and pay for install it will cost more than what it would have if you'd just bought the rubi
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Old 03-28-2011, 06:58 AM   #56
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the Rubi IS the most capable factory rig when it comes to rock crawling and there's no denying that! if you don't plan on crawling much I'd say grab an X because the overall drive ratio is better for general wheeling imho(and I own a Rubi).
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Old 03-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #57
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Gawd I thought I was seeing things but is this rubicon envy? sure I could buy a six cylinder mustang for less than a GT, and then swap in a V-8 but it will never be a GT. There is nothing wrong with any of these trim levels, but if you want it all done right the first time, just drop the money on a Rubicon and dicker on the price. DONE.

It's not that I ever planned on driving my Rubicon off road every day, it's actually my daily driver, but when I DO go offroad, I want it as capable as can be allowed and in a few instances when I wasn't expecting it, that methodology has paid off.

As for the rubicon sticker .. yea it's generally in the first comment most people make (ie nice rubicon) so yea, bragging rights are worth the price -

Buy what you want, but you know what they say about justification ... it's just like masturbation. In the end, it's all good because it's a family of people on the same page. Just my two cents on this loooong mind numbing thread
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:16 AM   #58
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I don't see the Rubi envy at all in here. Too me it seems like the Rubi owners are the ones that all up about it. I think everyone here is proud of what they got and don't see envy in anyones statement. People are just giving their options as they see it and envy has nothing to do with it. The OP said it was a dd with very little offroad so I see most statement following that line.
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:29 AM   #59
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ha ha ha ha ha yea nothing to see here folks, return to your homes - Officer Bar Brady

Seems like a lot of justification all I'm saying - buy what you want - everyones finances differ as do their uses. Being a daily driver doesnt mean I won't run into a situation where I need the full capability of my rig - that being said, I have run into that situation (and thank god for the winch).

Like I said, do what you want - but if all the upgrades needed to turn a sport into a rubicon (which it will never be, in much the same way dropping a V8 into a 6 cylinder Mustang will never make it a GT) are considered, not to mention your time, warranty coverage and costs are factored in, I just don't see the point of nickle and diming things.

Just an opinion
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Old 03-28-2011, 11:30 AM   #60
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Build the x how you want, then see if you can get the rubi down to that price! If not, then you have your answer. I got mine out the door for about what it would have cost me to get an x at sticker price the way I would have wanted it.

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