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Old 12-21-2012, 11:53 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
I'm sure nearly every person here "grew up" driving some RWD bucket from the 70's and knows how to "get by" with crappy tires in winter.

It does not change the fact that there are better tires better suited for rain, ice, and compacted snow than mud tires.

For "normal" winter driving:
Tires with sipes >>> Tires without sipes

If you look at the product description on TireRack.com, it basically states that information in the last paragraph.

"While Off-Road Maximum Traction tires are branded with the M+S symbol and able to churn through deep snow, their typical oversize applications and the absence of snow-biting sipes in their large smooth lugs can challenge their on-road wintertime traction on packed snow and icy surfaces."
And where's your proof that Rubicon tires suck in snow? I'm sorry, but you're going to need come up with some proof; not to discredit you in any way, but you're going to have to come up with some concrete evidence, because your word of mouth, along with everyone else's, simply isn't good enough. SHOW US THE PROOF.

Sure, go ahead and go get your tires sipped; that's fine, but why is it that I'd never even heard of "sipping" until about two weeks ago while reading this forum? I've had a ton of vehicles with all sorts of tires, and NOT ONCE has ANYONE EVER mentioned ANYTHING about sipping tires. In fact, nobody I know has ever had it done, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeeperz Creeperz View Post
Driving your Wrangler in the winter with stock Rubicon (Mud) Tires like you were driving a mustang with nearly bald tires (slowly & carefully) and you will be fine.

Driving your Rubicon Wrangler in 4wd high with dedicated winter tires like Blizzacks so you can go 65mph when you really should be doing 30mph will get you and others in trouble.

Dedicated winter tires will certainly be better than mud tires in snowy/icy conditions.

How you decide to drive in bad conditions will far outweigh the tire's traction benefits.
And regardless of what types of tires you have, you SHOULD BE driving like "you were driving a mustang with nearly bald tires" in the snow. Maybe you're all going around hot-rodding and "hangin' 10" in sharp corners on snowy roads, but most of us drive a little more carefully in the snow.

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Old 12-21-2012, 11:55 AM   #92
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It is still in debate because of the adage
smart tools make dumb people
and the corollary
dumb tools make smart people.

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Old 12-21-2012, 12:00 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by cyclone88 View Post
Siping is relevant to this post - studs are not. It's illegal to use them on the road in most states (maybe all - I don't know that for sure though). It's not helpful to compare winter tires, siped tires, stock tires, etc...to STUDDED tires. Let's just leave those off the table here when discussing rides that need to be driven on the road legally.
Sometimes it's better to refrain from commenting when you don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:03 PM   #94
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Sometimes it's better to refrain from commenting when you don't know what you're talking about.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:05 PM   #95
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And where's your proof that Rubicon tires suck in snow? I'm sorry, but you're going to need come up with some proof; not to discredit you in any way, but you're going to have to come up with some concrete evidence, because your word of mouth, along with everyone else's, simply isn't good enough. SHOW US THE PROOF.
I have literally taken the Rubi tires off after driving in bad weather and put on a set of BFG AT KO's and the difference is immediately apparent. You can stop in shorter distances on ice and hard packed snow with the AT than you can with the MT. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that this is the case.

I have also owned a set of siped Rubi tires on a previous vehicle and - again - in the winter time switched to the AT KO and noticed a big difference, even vs the siped MT.

I have also driven on snow tires for comparison and the snow tires stop in much shorter distance on ice than any of the AT, MT, or siped MT.

That is direct, first-hand knowledge from someone who has actually driven on both the MT's and AT's in winter conditions. I literally jacked up my Jeep in my driveway in crappy weather to get the AT's on.

How much weight you choose to accord to one particular anonymous internet poster is, of course, up to you. But, short of a magazine test, I think that is about as close to "proof" as you are going to get. By all means, saddle up on some stock KM's in ice and then swap them out for something else and get back to us.

Bottom line is this - mud tires are great if they have something to dig into. I was shocked - SHOCKED - at how great my stock KM's clawed through deep snow. But once you are talking about a hard-packed, glazed-over snow or sheet of ice, there is no way in hell an unsiped KM is in the same league as an AT, all-season, or winter tire. It is not close.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:09 PM   #96
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Simple answer to this funny thread is throw away the stock rubi tires if you have any snow to deal with! I live in western Canada in the mountains where we have 2 meters that's just over 6 feet of snow on the ground right now. The first winter I had my rubi on stockers I had many butt pucker moments with slide outs and spin outs. I decided to sipe the tires and that helped a little bit, still had slide outs. Once I had the money for winter tires I bought duratracs which I drive year round now. Got me up the mountain road with ease last week when we had a great snow storm with heavy wet snow that packed down real slick in town, on the way up I pulled out of the ditch a new rubi with stock tires because they slid right off the road. They took one look at my duratracs and said they need to get them ASAP!

It's been proven be many different independent tests that winter tires are better then anything else in snow and ice! Mud tires are designed for mud and dirt, the compounds are different and work differently at different temperatures, do the proper research and get the right tires for your conditions!

As for rims just get cheap steels for the winter if you don't want to spend $1000. You can usually find a good set at a junk yard for cheap.

Most of all have fun in the snow! Learn to drift and control skids and you'll be just fine!
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:42 PM   #97
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Sometimes it's better to refrain from commenting when you don't know what you're talking about.
You nailed it, I'll summarize, "Studded tires are permitted"
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:07 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Con Artist View Post
And where's your proof that Rubicon tires suck in snow? I'm sorry, but you're going to need come up with some proof; not to discredit you in any way, but you're going to have to come up with some concrete evidence, because your word of mouth, along with everyone else's, simply isn't good enough. SHOW US THE PROOF.

Sure, go ahead and go get your tires sipped; that's fine, but why is it that I'd never even heard of "sipping" until about two weeks ago while reading this forum? I've had a ton of vehicles with all sorts of tires, and NOT ONCE has ANYONE EVER mentioned ANYTHING about sipping tires. In fact, nobody I know has ever had it done, either.



And regardless of what types of tires you have, you SHOULD BE driving like "you were driving a mustang with nearly bald tires" in the snow. Maybe you're all going around hot-rodding and "hangin' 10" in sharp corners on snowy roads, but most of us drive a little more carefully in the snow.
I have no clue as to why you have never heard of it. I've never been to WV, so I don't know how much snow and ice you get, but I grew with midwest winters, and spent my entire childhood on I-80 going back and forth between Des Moines and Chicago. I've known about it all of my life.

The quote I posted earlier about the KM's not being as good on packed snow and ice due to lack of sipes came DIRECTLY from the product description of the Rubi specific KM tire on the TireRack.com.

Google "winter tire" and look at the images. You will see that basically every winter tire out there has sipes.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siping_(rubber)

Siping is a process of cutting thin slits across a rubber surface to improve traction in wet or icy conditions.
Siping was invented and patented in 1923 under the name of John F. Sipe [1][2] The story told on various websites is that, in the 1920s, Sipe worked in a slaughterhouse and grew tired of slipping on the wet floors. He found that cutting slits in the tread on the bottoms of his shoes provided better traction than the uncut tread. Another story is that he was a deckhand and wanted to avoid slipping on a wet deck.
The process was not applied to vehicle tires on a large scale until the 1950s, when superior tread compounds were developed that could stand up to the siping process. On roads covered with snow, ice, mud, and water, sipes usually increase traction. A US patent to Goodyear also claimed sipes improve tire traction, and tend to close completely in the tire "footprint" on the road. A 1978 study by the US National Safety Council found siping improved stopping distances by 22 percent, breakaway traction by 65 percent, and rolling traction by 28 percent on glare ice.
Tire tread block shapes, groove configurations, and sipes affect tire noise pattern and traction characteristics. Typically, wide, straight grooves have a low noise level and good water removal. More lateral grooves usually increase traction. Sipes are small grooves that are cut across larger tread elements. Up to a point, more sipes give more traction in snow or mud.
As is often the case, there are compromises. Winter tires, and "mud and snow" tires, may have thousands of sipes and give good traction. But, they may feel "squirmy" on a warm, dry road. Treadless racing "slicks" on dry roads give maximum traction. These have no sipes, no grooves, and no tread blocks. They also have very poor traction however on even slightly wet surfaces. Tire manufacturers use different tread rubber compounds and tread designs for different tires' usages.
Large sipes are usually built into the tread during manufacturing. Sipes may also be cut into the tread at a later date, called "microsiping". Bandag developed a machine for microsiping which places a curved knife blade at a slight angle on a rotating drum. The drum is placed so when it is pressed against the tread the tire is pressed into an exaggerated hollow, as if driving down a rail. The drum is lubricated and rotated and the knife makes a series of diagonal cuts across the tread. For improved traction, the tire may be siped twice, leaving diamond-shaped blocks. A significant problem with field siping is that the tread picks up rocks, glass, and other hard road debris in use, and even with thorough cleaning the knife service life is often poor.
Microsiping can dramatically improve tire traction in rain and snow. However, microsiped tires may also have increased road noise and tire wear when operated on dry surfaces. ConsumerReports.org recommends against adding more than "the sipes that your tires come with" because of longevity and dry performance. [3] Some companies such as Les Schwab claim that microsiped tires reduce tire friction heat and tire wear and extends the life of the tire. [4]
In Massachusetts in the 1970s, it was legal to operate a school bus with bald tires, provided they were double microsiped.
Both Bridgestone and Michelin sell snow tires that are siped at the factory, while Saf-Tee Siping and Grooving sells machines that can sipe most standard vehicle tires. Siping can also be done by hand. Be aware that siping the tires can void the manufacturer's warranty.
Note: Claims that extended life is achieved by siping may only apply to certain environments, operating temperatures and rubber compound builds.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:26 PM   #99
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Interesting, that tirerack.com has a survey from users for the Rubicon MT's

BFGoodrich*Mud-Terrain T/A KM

578 users answered how they liked the tire and how it performed under assorted conditions. Click the survey tab.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:08 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
I have no clue as to why you have never heard of it. I've never been to WV, so I don't know how much snow and ice you get, but I grew with midwest winters, and spent my entire childhood on I-80 going back and forth between Des Moines and Chicago. I've known about it all of my life.

The quote I posted earlier about the KM's not being as good on packed snow and ice due to lack of sipes came DIRECTLY from the product description of the Rubi specific KM tire on the TireRack.com.

Google "winter tire" and look at the images. You will see that basically every winter tire out there has sipes.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siping_(rubber)

Siping is a process of cutting thin slits across a rubber surface to improve traction in wet or icy conditions.
Siping was invented and patented in 1923 under the name of John F. Sipe [1][2] The story told on various websites is that, in the 1920s, Sipe worked in a slaughterhouse and grew tired of slipping on the wet floors. He found that cutting slits in the tread on the bottoms of his shoes provided better traction than the uncut tread. Another story is that he was a deckhand and wanted to avoid slipping on a wet deck.
The process was not applied to vehicle tires on a large scale until the 1950s, when superior tread compounds were developed that could stand up to the siping process. On roads covered with snow, ice, mud, and water, sipes usually increase traction. A US patent to Goodyear also claimed sipes improve tire traction, and tend to close completely in the tire "footprint" on the road. A 1978 study by the US National Safety Council found siping improved stopping distances by 22 percent, breakaway traction by 65 percent, and rolling traction by 28 percent on glare ice.
Tire tread block shapes, groove configurations, and sipes affect tire noise pattern and traction characteristics. Typically, wide, straight grooves have a low noise level and good water removal. More lateral grooves usually increase traction. Sipes are small grooves that are cut across larger tread elements. Up to a point, more sipes give more traction in snow or mud.
As is often the case, there are compromises. Winter tires, and "mud and snow" tires, may have thousands of sipes and give good traction. But, they may feel "squirmy" on a warm, dry road. Treadless racing "slicks" on dry roads give maximum traction. These have no sipes, no grooves, and no tread blocks. They also have very poor traction however on even slightly wet surfaces. Tire manufacturers use different tread rubber compounds and tread designs for different tires' usages.
Large sipes are usually built into the tread during manufacturing. Sipes may also be cut into the tread at a later date, called "microsiping". Bandag developed a machine for microsiping which places a curved knife blade at a slight angle on a rotating drum. The drum is placed so when it is pressed against the tread the tire is pressed into an exaggerated hollow, as if driving down a rail. The drum is lubricated and rotated and the knife makes a series of diagonal cuts across the tread. For improved traction, the tire may be siped twice, leaving diamond-shaped blocks. A significant problem with field siping is that the tread picks up rocks, glass, and other hard road debris in use, and even with thorough cleaning the knife service life is often poor.
Microsiping can dramatically improve tire traction in rain and snow. However, microsiped tires may also have increased road noise and tire wear when operated on dry surfaces. ConsumerReports.org recommends against adding more than "the sipes that your tires come with" because of longevity and dry performance. [3] Some companies such as Les Schwab claim that microsiped tires reduce tire friction heat and tire wear and extends the life of the tire. [4]
In Massachusetts in the 1970s, it was legal to operate a school bus with bald tires, provided they were double microsiped.
Both Bridgestone and Michelin sell snow tires that are siped at the factory, while Saf-Tee Siping and Grooving sells machines that can sipe most standard vehicle tires. Siping can also be done by hand. Be aware that siping the tires can void the manufacturer's warranty.
Note: Claims that extended life is achieved by siping may only apply to certain environments, operating temperatures and rubber compound builds.
We get a share of snow here in WV. I also lived in the midwest; Milwaukee, to be exact. I lived there for two years and weathered (no pun intended...) the snow for two years. I had my Camaro at the time, and even then, I hadn't heard of siping tires. It was never even mentioned.

I did do some research on siping so I now know what it is, but thanks for the explanation.

I'm quoting a post below, which is from Tire Rack. I read some of the reviews and the tires on the JK Rubicon didn't receive below an "okay" mark, and that was out of 578 people. That means that 578 people don't feel the factory tires are bad performers. While I can appreciate you didn't have good luck with them, or you think they suck, there are 578 people telling us otherwise. These tires must be performing somewhat well for these people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by positrak View Post
Interesting, that tirerack.com has a survey from users for the Rubicon MT's

BFGoodrich*Mud-Terrain T/A KM

578 users answered how they liked the tire and how it performed under assorted conditions. Click the survey tab.
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:36 PM   #101
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Just bought my jeep in Oct. We have snow in Colorado and I personally think the tires are nice for being STOCK. Drove today to Telluride in snow and icy conditions with no problems.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:44 PM   #102
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I guess I'll have to give the tires another chance, but I did find someone on craigslist selling stock goodyear tires and rims (16 inch) off a base sport. Aside from looking goofy with my 2 inch lift, I assume there's no reason I shouldn't consider them? At least the goodyears would be a true all season tire, so I'm guessing they'd do better on ice. Plus I could switch them out myself in my garage....no need to take them to a shop, so that's appealing.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:46 PM   #103
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I guess I'll have to give the tires another chance, but I did find someone on craigslist selling stock goodyear tires and rims (16 inch) off a base sport. Aside from looking goofy with my 2 inch lift, I assume there's no reason I shouldn't consider them? At least the goodyears would be a true all season tire, so I'm guessing they'd do better on ice. Plus I could switch them out myself in my garage....no need to take them to a shop, so that's appealing.
If they're a reasonable price and they're not gonna hurt anything, I don't see why not. Nothin' wrong with swapping out during the winter.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:03 PM   #104
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I took my 2013 Rubi with stock BFGs on it up to the mountain to play in the snow and see what the tires would do (my wife and son ski and need to be safe in the snow). The tires did ok in areas of accumulation but did not stop great. On hard pack and slush it was, shall we say, interesting. The BFGs do not inspire confidence when they are out of their designed element.

I switched to a set of Goodyear SilentArmor and never looked back. They are winter rated and a pleasure on all surfaces. Quiet too. I will keep the BFGs for when I do any serious rock crawling, but for now as a daily driver the GYs are great.

What this discussion is really about is relatives (no, not your in-laws ) There is no question that winter tires are better in winter conditions than MTs and vice versa. So it is a relative question- how much better or worse. For me, family safety is enough of a factor that I want a winter-rated tire for them in the winter.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:12 PM   #105
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I guess I'll have to give the tires another chance, but I did find someone on craigslist selling stock goodyear tires and rims (16 inch) off a base sport. Aside from looking goofy with my 2 inch lift, I assume there's no reason I shouldn't consider them? At least the goodyears would be a true all season tire, so I'm guessing they'd do better on ice. Plus I could switch them out myself in my garage....no need to take them to a shop, so that's appealing.
The 16" steelies come with Goodyear ST's (not even SRA's).

Plus you will need a pro-cal or a dealer to reset your speedo since those are 29"'s instead of 32"'s.

Keep an eye out for Sport S or Sahara take-offs instead.
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Old 12-23-2012, 09:52 AM   #106
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I guess I'll have to give the tires another chance, but I did find someone on craigslist selling stock goodyear tires and rims (16 inch) off a base sport. Aside from looking goofy with my 2 inch lift, I assume there's no reason I shouldn't consider them? At least the goodyears would be a true all season tire, so I'm guessing they'd do better on ice. Plus I could switch them out myself in my garage....no need to take them to a shop, so that's appealing.
The Duellers sre way better, plus they are the same 32" diameter as the rubicon MTs
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Old 12-23-2012, 11:25 PM   #107
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The Wrangler ST tire received rather poor reviews for snow... while they might be a bit better than an MT tire, it is still not a winter-specific tire.

The Silent Armour and Duratrac are two of Goodyear's all-terrain tires that have the extreme-weather 'snowflake' that means they are winter-rated. I believe there is also a tread wear warranty on the Silent Armour...
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Old 12-24-2012, 01:08 AM   #108
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I've been on stock rubi tires over a month and surprised how good they are. Driving around today in -23 c, ice, snow, packed.. accidents all over and I had no issues. The traction light came on a couple times but only on the worst spots. I drove for the winter conditions though. I'll still upgrade at some point, can't wait to try out a winter tire or the duratracs.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:10 AM   #109
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Try living in a place called Cold Lake

Where I live we get temps in the minus -30 C range all winter. Right now it's -27. I bought two (yes I said two ) Jeeps wranglers this year. Both are 2011's. Mid Wife Crisis, she took my first jeep for her self. I have stock tires on the JKU and Duratrac on the JK. Both are good in the snow. I picked the Duratrac because they have a good amount of siping. The stock tire's are even better in siping. One of the boys at work has a Rubi with stock BFG mudders. They do not hold up to the compact snow or ice. Might as well be bricks. Up here the temps will get soo cold that you get flat spots on your tires. This is from sitting over night in one spot. Laugh all you want but its true. You can not compare other cars/suvs to this either. They are AWD not 4x4. Your best bet is good tires that are designed for this cold stuff and a little common sense and good eyes for the idiots out there on the road.
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Old 12-24-2012, 09:12 AM   #110
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Get back to me when you drive on real ice for the first time with those MT's.
Kind of forgot about this thread. We've had a few more storms and I've been up in the Beartooths a few times. Everything is just fine...

As others point out, snow tires are probably the best choice, but these tires work just fine for my needs in Montana and on the ice and snow. So why would I want to waste $1000 on snow tires, when the stock Rubi tires will work for my needs?

Thanks for a very interesting discussion folks!
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:06 AM   #111
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Interesting, that tirerack.com has a survey from users for the Rubicon MT's

BFGoodrich*Mud-Terrain T/A KM

578 users answered how they liked the tire and how it performed under assorted conditions. Click the survey tab.
Thanks for the link!

-----------------

To people wanting to legislate into a governmental mandate that Rubicon owners MUST use snow tires; nobody said the MTs do BETTER than Snow tires. Most of us just said they're good enough for the job. If you have the money and the storage space, by all means get yourself snow tires !! As for me, I'm staying stock.

As for comparisons with Honda Civic etc, remember that front wheel drives are less squirrely than rear wheel drives or 4wds (assuming engine mounter up front). But front wheel drives will also take the steady straight path into the ditch..
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:46 AM   #112
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i drove in a pretty nice snowstorm here in Utah on christmas eve on my km2's and had no problems.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:56 AM   #113
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why dont rubicon owners just do this:
1) find an empty snowy/icy road, preferably outside of town, on a cold day
2) get up to 25-30 mph and SLAM on the brakes
3) get up to 40 mph and SLAM on the brakes
4) get up around 50 mph and stop as fast as you can safely
5) get up to 30-40 mph and try to slalom around some imaginary cones, or just jerk the wheel from side to side a few times
6) go around a few corners a little faster than you should and try to swing the back out, to get a feel if your jk will be somewhat controllable when things start to go wrong

basically, just see if you can reasonably maneuver and stop your jeep in emergencies. if your local conditions and skill make you feel comfortable, stick with the MTs by all means, otherwise AT LEAST you have a rough idea of where the limits are so you can stay within them!
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Old 12-26-2012, 12:50 PM   #114
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why dont rubicon owners just do this:
1) find an empty snowy/icy road, preferably outside of town, on a cold day
2) get up to 25-30 mph and SLAM on the brakes
3) get up to 40 mph and SLAM on the brakes
4) get up around 50 mph and stop as fast as you can safely
5) get up to 30-40 mph and try to slalom around some imaginary cones, or just jerk the wheel from side to side a few times
6) go around a few corners a little faster than you should and try to swing the back out, to get a feel if your jk will be somewhat controllable when things start to go wrong

basically, just see if you can reasonably maneuver and stop your jeep in emergencies. if your local conditions and skill make you feel comfortable, stick with the MTs by all means, otherwise AT LEAST you have a rough idea of where the limits are so you can stay within them!
This is good advice irrespective of the tire one has. Experiencing skids in controlled conditions helps avoid the panic that happens when you skid otherwise. And steering into a skid is a skill one can only learn by doing it.

So whether one has snow tires or not, doing this is a lifesaver! There would be fewer cars in the ditch if everyone did this..
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Old 12-26-2012, 01:07 PM   #115
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Here's a definitive testing snow vs as vs summer, all it really shows it take less distance to stop, less time to start. Point is in the snow a hurtling 4000 lb truck at speed on snow is going to break contact a slide regardless. If the idea is in traffic 5 10 mp accident avoidence, breaking surface contact on snow / ice and rear ending someone, maybe that tiny sipping or softer winter tire might, stop you in time before the bang. Same can be achieved with whatever, keeping a greater distance and driving even slower. To go barrelling down the road in snow / ice at speed, so with snow tires you'll come to a stop in 50 feet instead of a 100 feet. That's great provided there's nothing in your way between then and 50 feet. As for take off. Same deal. How much faster do you need to take off. If you plan on flooring it in snow tires vs as, big deal you get up to speed quicker, but where you going exactly so fast in the snow and ice? Further and quicker down the road with the hope that no one is in front of you 50 feet a head so that when you do need to slam on the brakes you'll come to a stop compared to the guy next to you.

bottom line: accident proners gonna prone

Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer - Edmunds.com

Snow vs AS vs MT obviously under the right conditions are better, those condtions are up to the driver.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:02 PM   #116
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bottom line: accident proners gonna prone

Tire Test: All-Season vs. Snow vs. Summer - Edmunds.com
Thanks for the article - good read.
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Old 12-26-2012, 02:11 PM   #117
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BFG MT's performed well in today's 4" snow fall, no problems so far.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:00 PM   #118
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I ordered Goodyear Silent Armor tires for snow and will use BFG MT's in the spring thru fall. So glad I didn't sell the second set of wheels and tires I picked up at a dealership. Only problem now is I will have ten new tires for storage.
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Old 12-26-2012, 03:39 PM   #119
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I investigate accidents... part of that is looking at tires... Large blocked treads do not work on snow or ice. Now, before you go on about how 'great' your blocky MT tires work... read... It's is ENTIRELY different to be driving THROUGH 4 inches of fresh snow on top of pavement then ON TOP of 4 inches of packed snow/ice that is typical of northern climate roads.

I'll post some pics later today of the last one I had... Dodge 1 ton, 4x4, big tires, big lift. Spun going 10mph and slid into an Audi and an F-150. Minimal traction on packed snow.

You are going to get completely different reports from someone who lives in a place where it snows 20 feet a year (like where I live) and some place where 'winter driving' is 2 inches of slush on the freeway twice a year.

So, take advice here from those living in the same climate as you. If some guys MT tires work great in the raging blizzards of Alabama, then great for him.

Me, and everyone else here in winter-land, are telling you that MT tires like the stock Rubi's are not good on packed snow, ice, or water-on-ice/snow. I'm not talking about your little snow-plough ruts in the Wal-mart parking lot... I have a 60 mile round trip to the nearest city and am on packed snow from Oct to April. It is too cold for salt, and the logging trucks blow the sand off after a few passes.

My Jeep has Duratracs, my Sequoia has studded Ultragrips, my work truck gets new Duratracs every fall. The logging trucks have to chain up 1 mile past my house...

It is the LAW to have extreme-winter rated tires (the snowflake) on this highway from Oct to April.
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Old 12-26-2012, 08:25 PM   #120
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This is good advice irrespective of the tire one has. Experiencing skids in controlled conditions helps avoid the panic that happens when you skid otherwise. And steering into a skid is a skill one can only learn by doing it.

So whether one has snow tires or not, doing this is a lifesaver! There would be fewer cars in the ditch if everyone did this..
Had my wife do this tonight. First snow she's experienced in her 2012 Forester and she was freaking. Why, I dunno, because her last car had AWD. She's lucky the road was empty because she probably would have caused a damned accident.

So, leading down the very wide road towards our neighborhood, we went over skid control, using her up/down-shifts (automatic), when to apply gas, when to let off, etc. She feels a little more comfortable now, so that's a good thing...FOR EVERYONE.

...And why she's freaking out in the snow is beyond me. She's from Wisconsin.

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