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Old 08-24-2009, 10:32 PM   #31
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hum the longer I am on this forum, I am wondering if I made a mistake getting a standard x

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Old 08-24-2009, 10:54 PM   #32
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hum the longer I am on this forum, I am wondering if I made a mistake getting a standard x
What makes you feel that way?

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Old 08-25-2009, 12:09 AM   #33
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because of everything I keep reading about the differences. even thou I am not going to do any rock crawling, I will be doing some off roading around here in Indiana.
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Old 08-25-2009, 02:30 AM   #34
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hum the longer I am on this forum, I am wondering if I made a mistake getting a standard x
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Originally Posted by rj5570 View Post
because of everything I keep reading about the differences. even thou I am not going to do any rock crawling, I will be doing some off roading around here in Indiana.
RJ!

Curious, but what particular differences are you referring to?

If it's the Axles, from what I can tell, our X's have a Dana 30 in the Front, and the heavier Dana 44 in the Rear, Axle Ratio is 3.21 or 3.73 (Depending on the Dealer Options Installed), and roll on 17" OWL On/Off Road rubber.

The Sahara's have a Dana 30 in the Front (Is this correct, Sahara Owner's???), and the Dana 44 in the Rear, Axle Ratio is 3.21 or 3.73 (Depending on the Dealer Options Installed), and roll on 18" OWL On/Off Road rubber.

The Rubicon's have a Dana 44 on both the Front and Rear, Axle Ratio is 4.1, and roll on 17" BSW Offroad rubber.

If you're not gonna do any Rock Krawling, and just Mud/Sand offroading, I would think the X would easily be up to the task. Maybe slap some BSW Offroad rubber on there, instead of the GY SRA's that come standard on the X.

I'm heading to the coast in a couple of weeks, and I want to see what my X can do on the beach in Corpus. If my SRA's handle the sand just fine (once I lower the Tire pressure..... and remember to bring an Air Compressor with me.....), I'll use 'em until the Tread-Wear Indicator meets the top of the tread! Now, if they aren't that great in the sand, then they won't be much better in the mud. In which case, I'll probably buy some Duratrac's and put them on instead. I don't wanna Rock Krawl, but am itching to get into some Beach & Mud!!!

Cheers!

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Old 08-25-2009, 02:41 AM   #35
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hum the longer I am on this forum, I am wondering if I made a mistake getting a standard x
I wouldn't be. I'm still amazed at what my stock X can do. I've yet to actually need lockers. Manual disconnects aren't as "convenient" as electronic but won't malfunction on me either. I have the stock SRAs and they've yet to let me down. Rocks, water crossings, snow, gravel but not much mud here in Colorado and they've pulled through fine. Would I like meatier tires, sure, but I'm not upgrading them until they actually need it.

Upgrades will eventually come and it will be more capable then any stock Rubi when I'm done with it. Not worth it to me just for a sticker. Once you build it up there isn't any advantage in a Rubi except for the 44 front end which can be fixed also.

Here's the list of "trails" I've done so far. Some are just gravel roads but they get up to a 5 out of 10 rating from traildamage.com for the hardest. I'm slowly working my way up harder trails to find the limit of my Jeep and see what I have to upgrade.

Metberry Gulch : Mt. Baldy : Schubarth Road : Rampart Range : Mt. Herman Rd : Medano Pass : Shelf Road : Phantom Canyon : Balance Rock Rd : Phantom Creek : Signal Butte: Manchester Creek Rd : Rule Ridge : Mosquito Pass : Halfmoon Creek

So far the gas tank skid is weak and the transmission crossmember could really use some protection!!! Probably going to skid the lower control arm mounts also. Also looking to get skids for the axle housings and oil pan.

Next year is the lift, tires, gears and such. Expensive hobby!!
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:06 AM   #36
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hum the longer I am on this forum, I am wondering if I made a mistake getting a standard x
Everything that a Rubicon "gives" you can be installed via the aftermarket --- in a much stouter and more capable form.

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Old 08-25-2009, 02:25 PM   #37
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wow, ok, you all made me feel better . That was my first opinion when I went shopping. I am brand new to off roading. So I still have to learn. Like I said I am a newbie so I have a learning curve for off roading and 4wd. I am still learning

I am more worried about snow first, since that is my main obstacle during the year. But I want to do some off roading this fall in brown county.
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Old 08-25-2009, 02:42 PM   #38
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If you got the money and want a vehicle already built then buy a Rubicon.
If you do/don't have the money and want to experience building your own vehicle then get what ever you want.

Pretty simple
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Old 08-31-2009, 06:59 PM   #39
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I've been debating between a Rubi and a Sahara. If I can find a used one, I'll buy whatever I can get so long as the price is reasonable.

However, if I'm buying new, which it looks like I may do, I'm going Sahara mainly for the price. However, this crowd would probably call me "soft" as I won't do anything with it other than road driving and the occasional camping trip / trail trip. The Rubi is overkill for me, I feel.

Also, I have to imagine that the stock 18s that come on the Sahara and the tires will go better and be more quiet on the road than the 17s and th more hard core tires of the Rubi.
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Old 08-31-2009, 07:11 PM   #40
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this crowd would probably call me "soft" as I won't do anything with it other than road driving and the occasional camping trip / trail trip.
As long as you take pics of those trails you are okay. We like pictures
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Old 08-31-2009, 08:17 PM   #41
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I've been debating between a Rubi and a Sahara. If I can find a used one, I'll buy whatever I can get so long as the price is reasonable.

However, if I'm buying new, which it looks like I may do, I'm going Sahara mainly for the price. However, this crowd would probably call me "soft" as I won't do anything with it other than road driving and the occasional camping trip / trail trip. The Rubi is overkill for me, I feel.

Also, I have to imagine that the stock 18s that come on the Sahara and the tires will go better and be more quiet on the road than the 17s and th more hard core tires of the Rubi.
This is exactly how I started out. I bought the Sahara Unlimited. Chrysler bought it back from me and I then went with the Rubicon. Originally I don't think I was thinking along the lines that I could have afforded the Rubicon. After paying on the loan for the Sahara for almost a year, and having a "do-over" I decided that, if I had that chance, I would spring the extra $$$ for the Rubicon. Well, after having owned the Rubicon for over a year now, I can truthfully say, I am a super satisfied customer. I guess I never thought I would enjoy the thrill of the off road as much as I do. It is addictive. If you like it a little and give the jeep a chance to veer off the beaten path when it sees a "hole in the woods" opportunity to do some exploring, you'll probably get addicted just as I have. In the beginning, I didn't think I would like it off of the pavement as much as I do. I can't believe how lucky I have been to have had a second chance at the decision to own one.

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Old 09-01-2009, 12:38 PM   #42
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Yes, but if 90% or more of the time I'm driving on the road, then my priority is a nice road drive and I can't believe the Rubicon is even with or better than a stock Sahara for that.

Here's my main reason for wanting a Wrangler in the first place and my thought process in Sahara vs Rubicon...

1. Owned a '94 and '97 and loved them both. (Sahara ties Rubicon)
2. My kids will absolutely love driving around with the top off. (Tie)
3. I can take my own car camping and skiing rather than my wife's car. I just sold my BMW. (Tie)
4. My wife loved our older Wranglers and is clearly very interested in me purchasing another Wrangler. (Tie)
5. I drive 22 miles one way to work. While a Jeep is less than ideal, I'm going to do it anyways but would like a nicer ride and I believe the Sahara will deliver that. (Advantage Sahara)
6. I like the color-key'd fenders of the Sahara and the niceties the Sahara offers. (Advantage Sahara)
7. I went to spend in the mid-$20k range and will go used or new (Advantage Sahara, Advantage Used).
7. I buy cars often times for re-sale value (Advantage Rubicon).
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Old 09-01-2009, 12:46 PM   #43
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I have a question about the lockers?

Do they only work in 4 low?

And in 2wd mode, is it a limited slip in the back?

Will being in 4wd and high gear, will you spin one wheel, while the other wheel is not,, if you in a stuck situation?

If this is the case. I dont plann on any rock crawling.

And I really like the Sahara.

I think you have to be in 4wd low for the lockers to work. But what is it like in 4wd drive high on both models the Rubbi and the Sahara?

Also , isnt 4wd Low only good for 15mph max?????

Thanks.
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Old 09-01-2009, 09:48 PM   #44
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Yes, but if 90% or more of the time I'm driving on the road, then my priority is a nice road drive and I can't believe the Rubicon is even with or better than a stock Sahara for that.

Here's my main reason for wanting a Wrangler in the first place and my thought process in Sahara vs Rubicon...

1. Owned a '94 and '97 and loved them both. (Sahara ties Rubicon)
2. My kids will absolutely love driving around with the top off. (Tie)
3. I can take my own car camping and skiing rather than my wife's car. I just sold my BMW. (Tie)
4. My wife loved our older Wranglers and is clearly very interested in me purchasing another Wrangler. (Tie)
5. I drive 22 miles one way to work. While a Jeep is less than ideal, I'm going to do it anyways but would like a nicer ride and I believe the Sahara will deliver that. (Advantage Sahara)
6. I like the color-key'd fenders of the Sahara and the niceties the Sahara offers. (Advantage Sahara)
7. I went to spend in the mid-$20k range and will go used or new (Advantage Sahara, Advantage Used).
7. I buy cars often times for re-sale value (Advantage Rubicon).
Sounds like you are already convinced on the Sahara.

Mine is my daily driver. I have driven both and the stock tires on the Rubi are slightly louder than the stock tires on the Sahara. Over one year, I have put on 17K miles. Very enjoyable miles, all of them. I put on 14K on the Sahara in about 8 months. Just as enjoyable to drive except the stereo on the Rubi is boss compared to the one I had on the Sahara. Worth the extra $$ for the upgrade on the sticker. I had the extra $$ to be able to afford the Rubi. But since you have already are convinced to get the Sahara, I guess these items wouldn't matter. Both are just as fun but one is more rugged. Have fun with whichever you choose. Most importantly, post pictures when you get it. Best of luck making your choice. Cheers.
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Old 09-01-2009, 11:26 PM   #45
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I have a question about the lockers?

Do they only work in 4 low?

And in 2wd mode, is it a limited slip in the back?

Will being in 4wd and high gear, will you spin one wheel, while the other wheel is not,, if you in a stuck situation?

If this is the case. I dont plann on any rock crawling.

And I really like the Sahara.

I think you have to be in 4wd low for the lockers to work. But what is it like in 4wd drive high on both models the Rubbi and the Sahara?

Also , isnt 4wd Low only good for 15mph max?????

Thanks.
The lockers work in 4low only and only below a set mph (10 mph). I think the theory there is that if the jeep is moving along at that speed, because the wheels will be contacting variable friction surfaces as it moves along, the lock is probably not necessary. There are people who mod the controls on the lockers to have them lock in 4 high to do "tricks" in snow?? I'm not sure about the exact reasons for this mod but I'm currently happy using the jeep just as it came out of the box.

As far as I know when the differentials are not locked, they are limited slip. What I'm not sure about is if this is for both front and rear or just the rear.

Max speed in 4 low is 25mph. Anything above that can be accomplished in 4 high.

The Sahara is very capable as far as sure footedness. The limited slip is suppose to keep the jeep from getting stuck by using the braking system to brake on the wheel that is slipping and thus transfer power to the wheel that has traction.

I am a neophyte when it comes to this and others on this forum are certainly more qualified to speak on this topic. And this is the reason that, when out on the trail I tend to take it slow. This also helps me to keep my adrenilin under control and thus keep my heart from beating out of my chest. Slow is safe...I'm good with that.

Whatever your choice, I'm sure you'll have fun with it. Have fun choosing.
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Old 09-01-2009, 11:46 PM   #46
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Well, it appears I may be getting the Rubicon after all. I just found what I think to be a good deal on a 2007 Rubicon but it's a few hundred miles away. 2007 Rubi Unltd with just over 12k miles on it.

Since 2007 is the first year these came out, is there any concern or do we know yet if there we more problems with the 2007 MY over the 2008 or 2009?
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Old 09-02-2009, 12:19 AM   #47
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Well, it appears I may be getting the Rubicon after all. I just found what I think to be a good deal on a 2007 Rubicon but it's a few hundred miles away. 2007 Rubi Unltd with just over 12k miles on it.

Since 2007 is the first year these came out, is there any concern or do we know yet if there we more problems with the 2007 MY over the 2008 or 2009?
I'm not aware of any glaring mechanical issues that have cropped up on the 2007 on a consistent basis. As far as I know, mechanically they are sound.

I have heard a lot of talk about leaking hard tops. I had one of those in an early 08 that went back to Chrysler. I have been told by owners of leakers that using silicon lubricant on the seals solves this problem. If mine leaks and it is out of warranty, that is the direction that I will try.

Here is something that happened to mine and I understand that the part is on all sahara wranglers including the Rubicon. I have had opportunity to use 4wd often on mine. I got stranded by mine when a 60 cent plastic bushing broke on the linkage to the transfer case. I was in the middle of a washout on a gravel road in miserable conditions and the transfer case was stuck in neutral. I have heard this story repeated lots for both two door and four door models. Today I spent a whopping $2.00 and change (tax) for three of them and promptly placed them in the glove box. Anybody that spends a lot of time out on the trail or even a little time out there should carry spares of this part. But that is not a major mechanical failure just a minor inconvenience. There is also a more permanent fix that has been documented on the net but mine is still under warranty and I insist that Chrysler fix it permanently. Once it is out of warranty, I guess I'll have to do the fix but until then, I,m going to have fun hounding Chrysler to fix it. But one thing is certain is that I won't get stuck again out in the middle of nowhere in neutral on the transfer case.

I guess the only thing to be careful of is one that has had it's suspension heavily modified. Then you may be at the mercy of the quality of the modifications.
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Old 09-02-2009, 07:21 AM   #48
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The limited slip is suppose to keep the jeep from getting stuck by using the braking system to brake on the wheel that is slipping and thus transfer power to the wheel that has traction.
You're describing the "Brake Lock Differential" system that Jeep uses in unlocked/un-lsd situations. Simulates a locked diff and does a pretty good job for 95% of what the average Jeeper will encounter.
LSD is a mechanical intervention within the diffs that allow for a certain amount of torque to be transferred; it works well in a variety of non-harsh situations but its preload is too light to be worth the money, IMHO. I'd rather see somebody get an aftermarket lsd or locker.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:29 PM   #49
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I pretty much will get what looks best.

I tried to make my own on the Jeep website,, and a Sahara wouldnt take white, or silver with a Hardtop?

Well Im a good 11 months out, till my 335i lease is up.

I wish it were sooner. I use to have a 1992 4.0 about 15 yrs ago.

So mine will be a 2010,, and I see they come with Leather now.

I pretty sure I will also Like payments that are about half!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:04 PM   #50
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You're describing the "Brake Lock Differential" system that Jeep uses in unlocked/un-lsd situations. Simulates a locked diff and does a pretty good job for 95% of what the average Jeeper will encounter.
LSD is a mechanical intervention within the diffs that allow for a certain amount of torque to be transferred; it works well in a variety of non-harsh situations but its preload is too light to be worth the money, IMHO. I'd rather see somebody get an aftermarket lsd or locker.
Thanks Hilldweller,

The exact details of how the differentials work is where my knowledge falls out. I am planning on joining a jeep club and do some off roading with the group which will probably challenge me more than I have so far. Soon, I will see more of the capabilities of the Rubicon at work and am looking forward to it. Thanks for the help describing that.

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Old 09-03-2009, 04:13 PM   #51
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I have an 07 Rubi 2 door with 65,000 miles and there have been no problems with it. All is good! 19mpg too!
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Old 09-07-2009, 01:58 PM   #52
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I bought an 07 Sahara that had a 2" lift kit install from the stealer. I took it to upstate N.Y. last hunting season, in the Berkshiers. It did great going up a mountain log road, in 4 in of new snow on top 2-3 inches. The only thing was i had to use 4Wheel Low as 4 wheel high was too hig a gearing as i have the 3.21's vs the Rubi 4.10. Overall i was impressed. I have a Dodge Ram 2500 4 x 4 that is almost unstopable when it has good tires on it and had a 98 TJ too. The new Sahara did well in all counts. If you don't think you'll ever need the capability of a Rubi its probably overkill. I'd get it in hindsight, not because of the locks but the 4.10's.
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