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Old 10-28-2009, 12:47 PM   #1
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Should I get a Wrangler?

Always figured a DC Tacoma would suite my needs due to the cargo capacity and the reputation of better reliability compared to the Jeep. I understand Wrangler has better off-road capabilities but I'm not looking to do the extremes like climbing boulders or putting 35" tires on. So the off-road capabilities between the two doesn't matter to me.

However, upon further research, I found out all these issues with Toyota trucks:

-Tacomas and Tundras rusting - Initially acknowledge for 97-2001 models, then it was extended thru 2004..
-Some reports of rusting on current generation Tacoma frames ( I live in Chicago where roads are covered in salt 1/2 of the year so this concerns me)
-Current generation Tacoma transmission shifting problems.
-Widespread FJ Cruisers with body panels ripping/cracking

Needless to say, after reading all that, my perception of Toyota quality has drastically changed. Now I'm wondering if it's worth spending $30K on a new Tacoma?

Rented a Wrangler unlimited for a week when I was in California and took it all over Yosemite and Owens Valley. Loved it. However I still have concerns with regards to the Jeep.

Wranglers are generally not perceived as reliable or good every-day on-road vehicles. Given the redesign in 2007, are most of those criticism mitigated? How is the reliability/durability of Wrangler JK thus far? My short stint with a JK Unlimited perhaps wasn't telling enough of what a long-term ownership experience will be. Your insights would be appreciated!

P.S. - Oh and the wife likes the looks of the JK and hates the Tacoma look.. LOL

Some pics from the E. Sierras with my rental Wrangler Unlimited X. Great time!


















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Old 10-28-2009, 12:56 PM   #2
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Welcome to WF, get a Jeep! You'll hate your self if you don't!

Your photography skills are good. Nice pics!

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Old 10-28-2009, 12:57 PM   #3
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First of all, fantastic photos...do you have a Flickr stream?

Second, I just went through this decision-making process myself. I'm 39...3 kids...and have had a Honda Element for the past 6 1/2 years. But before that, I had a '97 Wrangler, and I've missed it ever since. I don't really need luxurious cars, so the rougher aspect of it never bothered me. And as for quality, I never had one problem with it, for the 6 years I had it. Which is why I just ordered a 2010 Wrangler Sport Unlimited...and can't wait for it to come in. For me, I'll sacrifice some comfort and quality/confidence for the fun.
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Old 10-28-2009, 12:59 PM   #4
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my first thought was... ur asking a Wrangler Forum if you should buy one??? However, I'm new to jeeps and had some of the same thoughts you have. My interest started when I was trying to find one for my youngest son; conclusion, they hold their value. Another thing I've noticed is there are a lot of add ons and aftermarket parts for jeeps, and the quality and fit is good. I also have a great dealership, the service manager is a saint, and knows jeeps; important to me. there is a lot of jeep expertise out there to help you build your jeep. And the JK has a lot of improvments and refinments over past jeeps from what I've been told, from heavier duty components to creature comforts. No, it won't ride like an SUV, it's a jeep. From what I can tell so far, you either love it, or not. I love it, and my wife is jeolous!

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Old 10-28-2009, 01:01 PM   #5
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Your call, you seem to have done some research and are in the process of more.

Are Jeeps reliable? This website has forums for TJ's, YJ's, and CJ's, so they must still be runnin'. Sure, it isn't a refined automobile built for driver comfort, but nobody buys it for that. Things will break or leak, but at the end of the day if it makes you smile, that's a great vehicle.

By the way, some sweet pics.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:03 PM   #6
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4.point - thanks for the quick response.

I really enjoyed my time with the rental Wrangler. Perhaps I was too wordy in my original post. My two main concerns with the Wrangler are:

- Reliability. I read about the wobble of death.. Any known major issues for recent model years?
- On-road everyday driving experience, especially in crappy midwest pot-hole ridden roads. I expect harsh ride with the Wrangler, but driving it in California for a week, it didnt' seem that that much worse than my Honda Element.. Should I expect the ride to get significantly worse over time? (That's what every Wrangler dissenter has told me)

Can anyone please provide some insight on those two points? Thanks.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:05 PM   #7
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First of all, fantastic photos...do you have a Flickr stream?

Second, I just went through this decision-making process myself. I'm 39...3 kids...and have had a Honda Element for the past 6 1/2 years. But before that, I had a '97 Wrangler, and I've missed it ever since. I don't really need luxurious cars, so the rougher aspect of it never bothered me. And as for quality, I never had one problem with it, for the 6 years I had it. Which is why I just ordered a 2010 Wrangler Sport Unlimited...and can't wait for it to come in. For me, I'll sacrifice some comfort and quality/confidence for the fun.
Funny you said that, I currently drive an 04' Honda Element and at 86K it has been rock solid as far as reliability is concerned. So I think I'm being very spoiled with regards to vehicle reliability, which is also why I'm so concerned with going to a vehicle with much poorer reliability ratings. However your story of a trouble free Wrangler is good to hear.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:21 PM   #8
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My Element has been great, too (80,000 miles) and actually rides a lot like my previous Wrangler. I think the ride has gotten a lot rougher over time, though...I guess that would be the shocks? (As you can tell, I'm not a car expert.) I have to say after reading all the gripes on this forum (a-pillar leaks, wobbles, manual transmission), I'm a little concerned, but hoping they are the exceptions, not the rule.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:48 PM   #9
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the wobble is more associated with large aftermarket tires with several inches of lift and not upgrading the steering components (often neglected)

if you plan of keeping it mostly stock with maybe slightly larger tires and minimal if no lift there shouldnt be any problems with wobble.
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Old 10-28-2009, 01:57 PM   #10
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I wouldn't drive anything else. Okay I can't my kids drive my other vehicles and it s too cold to ride the Harley. Great pics... I would never come home if I could ride and look at scenery like that all day! Ive had my JK a year with no problems.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:37 PM   #11
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Both Jeeps and Tacomas have cult followings ---- both JKs and Tacomas also have owners that aren't enthusiasts. But more Jeep owners are enthusiasts.

Search your heart on this one. You might want to explore Expedition Portal and IH8MUD as you ponder the choices. You seem the sort who might like those sites.

Nice work with the camera. Check out some of Scott Brady's work on ExPo.
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Old 10-28-2009, 03:43 PM   #12
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cool pic... GET A JEEP.. you'll love it.

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Old 10-28-2009, 04:19 PM   #13
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You might want to explore Expedition Portal
Excellent suggestion! I second the motion. Also OverlandJournal.com. Nice magazine on off-road adventures, with some great photography.

Expedition Portal is a bit full of people who outfit their vehicles for Africa, but only drive them to the mall. But still a fun place.
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Old 10-28-2009, 04:40 PM   #14
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No don't buy a jeep!!!! You will forsake other hobies to spend way to much money on your jeep. You will become addicted to online jeep parts stores, and forums. You will neglect other things you know you should do, to spend time with your jeep! It is a destructive and addictive path be very careful!!!!!!
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:01 PM   #15
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No don't buy a jeep!!!! You will forsake other hobies to spend way to much money on your jeep. You will become addicted to online jeep parts stores, and forums. You will neglect other things you know you should do, to spend time with your jeep! It is a destructive and addictive path be very careful!!!!!!

Sounds about right...as soon as i finish one mod, i'm onto the next. Got the tire cover and Jeep rubber floor mats last weekend and doing the DIY grill gutter guard inserts this weekend. Only $15!! Then comes the expensive stuff...somebody give me more ideas for cheap mods for my next fix . It seriously is addicting, they should put surgeon general warnings on all jeeps.
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:22 PM   #16
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hmm, should u buy a jeep?
simple, does a one legged duck swim in circles?
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:49 PM   #17
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You're first sunny warm summer day, when you are out for a cruise with the top down and doors off, will answer that question for you. And great pics, thanks for sharing.
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Old 10-28-2009, 05:49 PM   #18
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Jeep owner since 11/07 I am now deeply entrenched in my second childhood. wOOt

I can't get enough of it. It veers off the tar at many dirt roads. Dead end roads? No problem with the jeep. I had to chuckle when I saw that while I was out with a 4 wheeling group.

Have I had a few issues? Yah, minor stuff. I don't do crazy stuff with it but on the other hand I'm not a pansy with it either. Stock suspension is very capable but it probably will not stay that way forever. Looking forward to lifting it eventually.

It is definitely a fun ride to own.
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Old 10-28-2009, 08:14 PM   #19
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Funny you said that, I currently drive an 04' Honda Element and at 86K it has been rock solid as far as reliability is concerned. So I think I'm being very spoiled with regards to vehicle reliability, which is also why I'm so concerned with going to a vehicle with much poorer reliability ratings. However your story of a trouble free Wrangler is good to hear.
My wife has an 03 Element and I have an 08 Wrangler,, I much prefer the Wrangler for being fun to drive,, and so far I have had 0 problems.. But the Element is more comfortable overall, gets better gas mileage, and has more storage room. And as far as Honda's go since the 80s my wife and I have owned a total of 7 Hondas, and only one has every had any problems, and we still own that one, a 98 civic with 160,000 miles on it. My son drives it. It had a blown IC chip in the controls and the windshield wipers would not shut off, and it had a cracked exhaust manifold. The exhaust was covered under warranty by Honda, 10,000 miles after the warranty was up.

In the same amount of time I have owned 2 fords, tons of problems on both of them. 4 chevys, not many problems with them, but one had an Isuzu engine, and two were co-produced with Toyota. The one that gave me the most trouble was a Silverado pickup. And I have had two Jeep Wranglers. The first one back in 92 kept going through starters, but was fine other than that and this one, like I said 0 problems so far.
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Old 10-28-2009, 08:36 PM   #20
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Excellent suggestion! I second the motion. Also OverlandJournal.com. Nice magazine on off-road adventures, with some great photography.
I sleep with it under my pillow...

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Old 10-28-2009, 10:30 PM   #21
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Go to any used car lot and tell me how many Wranglers you see. They are extremely reliable. People buy them and hang on to them forever.
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:19 PM   #22
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you really went to WRANGLER Forum and asked US if you should buy a wrangler. Our wranglers are the reason we get out of bed in the morning.
dont get one, unless you want an empty bank account
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Old 10-28-2009, 11:40 PM   #23
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I have an 09 Wrangler X 2-door. I have the soft top. I have run the Jeep through the touchless car wash and didn't get a single drop inside. Driving around with the top pulled down is great. I have done a little trailing, no super mud bogging or climbing boulders, but some nice steep hills on gravel and and dirt with moderate mud and water which was fun.

When deciding on whether or not the Jeep is for you, there are some questions you need to ask yourself......

1) Can I live without all the fancy creature comforts that other vehicles offer?
2) Am I comfortable with the fact that my vehicle may be more vulnerable to break-ins than other cars?
3) Can I drive a vehicle with limited cargo space?
4) Can I drive a vehicle that always sounds like the windows are down?
5) Can I drive a vehicle, that in a heavy rain, sounds like I'm in a tent?

Then ask yourself if trading all of those things is worth:

1) Owning a vehicle that holds awesome resale value?
2) Owning a vehicle that is so versatile that it can literally be customized to suit me?
3) Owning a vehicle that is not only ready for the road, but also the beach and trails?
4) Owning a vehicle that has a certain appeal to people of all ages?
5) Owning a vehicle that automatically places you into a family where almost everytime you see another Jeeper, you throw each other a little wave.

As with any decision, there are always pros and cons. Ultimately, the choice is yours.
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:54 AM   #24
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Yeah when I had my rental Wrangler X.. it was very refreshing to look up and see bars and plastic instead of some padded fabric. See painted metal and flat surfaces on the insides of the doors instead of faux leather/wood and sculpted curved surfaces.

I really enjoyed the crank window, I wish we can get power door locks but have the ability to keep the manual windows.

How safe is the Wrangler with the hardtop? I know with soft-top, it's easy for thieves to slash their way in. I anticipate that I'll be keeping some valuables inside from time to time.

Can half doors be installed with a hard top? I like the sliding side window on some of the half doors..

One ergonomic thing that did bother me was the push button door handle. Why didn't Jeep make the handle "pull" type like everyone else? My thumb ached from constantly pushing on that button. <-- might sound silly but I can't be the only one?
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:16 AM   #25
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You obviously haven't been a thumb pusher at work or in your hobbies.
If you had, then your thumb muscles would have been up to the task.
I've just never noticed any thumb fatigue.
Hmmmm.
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:24 AM   #26
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Yeah when I had my rental Wrangler X.. it was very refreshing to look up and see bars and plastic instead of some padded fabric. See painted metal and flat surfaces on the insides of the doors instead of faux leather/wood and sculpted curved surfaces.

I really enjoyed the crank window, I wish we can get power door locks but have the ability to keep the manual windows.

How safe is the Wrangler with the hardtop? I know with soft-top, it's easy for thieves to slash their way in. I anticipate that I'll be keeping some valuables inside from time to time.

Can half doors be installed with a hard top? I like the sliding side window on some of the half doors..

One ergonomic thing that did bother me was the push button door handle. Why didn't Jeep make the handle "pull" type like everyone else? My thumb ached from constantly pushing on that button. <-- might sound silly but I can't be the only one?
There's an easy solution to the door handle issue. Remove the doors!
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Old 10-29-2009, 07:45 AM   #27
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You drive what you are; you are what you drive.

Have you ever bought something because it was on sale? Almost fit right and you almost liked/needed needed it? And you never quite used it? Maybe you used it and bragged about the price for a month but then it sat on a shelf for 5 years until you finally threw it out...

That's what it's like to buy the wrong truck. You buy it because it's practical, Consumer Reports says to buy it, the "smart guy" at work has a brother who has one, or some other logical reason.
But do you want it? I mean WANT it.

The ExPo thread's advice is oriented more along the lines of buying the vehicle that suits your needs ---- that's intelligent thinking. If you need to haul a bunch of 2x4's every day, a Wrangler is a poor choice.
But, if you get in one and it talks to you at a primitive & visceral level, if you feel a tingle in your deoxyribo's when it propels you up a rocky tree-lined ridge, if it makes your beard grow a 1/4 inch just opening the door, a Wrangler suits you and you'll never sleep right without one.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:09 AM   #28
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Ywen!

This is fun to read, and may help you to decide. Remember to click on the Blue Links under "PROS" and "CONS", to get the full lists.

PROS & CONS of Owning a Jeep Wrangler (Link)

Also, YES, you can change out the Doors to Half-Doors. Be forewarned though, that if you're looking for the Factory Half Doors, be prepared to pay over $3K for them! Also, they will have the same handles as the Full Doors! I bought these for $1,092, with Paint-To-Match for my Yellow Wrangler. Also, they have the Paddle-Handles which are easy to use.









There are so many, many, many... ok... I'm tired now... Aftermarket/Accessory Options that you can buy for a Jeep, it's not funny! Especially when you find your wallet empty! That's why it's called a JEEP = Just Empty Every Pocket!

BTW, EXCELLENTS PICS, and EXCELLENT choice of Rental in Detonator Yellow!

Best of Luck!

Cheers!

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Old 10-29-2009, 10:58 AM   #29
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Thanks BB - Can the halfdoor be installed on a Wrangler hardtop? In other words, can I get a soft upper half door to go with the factory hard top? All the examples of half doors have been the on Soft top Wranglers..

The reason why I dig the half door is not the removal of the soft uppers but the sliding window that I sometimes see with the soft uppers. Thanks!
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Old 10-29-2009, 11:15 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by Hilldweller View Post
You drive what you are; you are what you drive.

Have you ever bought something because it was on sale? Almost fit right and you almost liked/needed needed it? And you never quite used it? Maybe you used it and bragged about the price for a month but then it sat on a shelf for 5 years until you finally threw it out...

That's what it's like to buy the wrong truck. You buy it because it's practical, Consumer Reports says to buy it, the "smart guy" at work has a brother who has one, or some other logical reason.
But do you want it? I mean WANT it.

The ExPo thread's advice is oriented more along the lines of buying the vehicle that suits your needs ---- that's intelligent thinking. If you need to haul a bunch of 2x4's every day, a Wrangler is a poor choice.
But, if you get in one and it talks to you at a primitive & visceral level, if you feel a tingle in your deoxyribo's when it propels you up a rocky tree-lined ridge, if it makes your beard grow a 1/4 inch just opening the door, a Wrangler suits you and you'll never sleep right without one.

You should be a writer Bill!

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