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Old 03-07-2011, 12:19 PM   #31
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I think it is just an error also. ALTHOUGH, if that was a scam,WOW! that would be a great lawsuit!!! Get yourself a quality plaintiff attorney and attack.

But not likely,


AJ
that's my point. It would difficult for a lawyer to prove the fraud, because the dealer would simply say that it was an error due to fat fingers...

I don't know what to believe anymore, the car runs and the engine sounds and the bay looks like the car has low miles.

I;m pissed because I had all these mods planned, and now I putting them on hold.

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Old 03-07-2011, 12:27 PM   #32
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I am contemplating on getting a lawyer, but think that it is a waste of money. Because all Fullerton has to say is that it was clerical error. And if that is the case, obviously no one will want to buy it back.
But if it was a clerical error, you wouldn't want anybody to buy it back, right? If it was a clerical error, then all is well so long as the mileage is corrected in Jeep's system.

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1. get a lawyer-anyone know if i have to pay upfront for services?
A lawyer would typically take a consumer protection claim on a "contingency fee" basis, and would perhaps charge an up front fee of a few hundred dollars along with your commitment to pay any costs associated with the lawsuit (e.g., printing, filing fees, etc.). But I think I lawyer's unnecessary because this is probably all just a mistake.

I'm in line with everybody else and think it's almost impossible this is anything other than a typo. My concern would therefore be only to get Jeep to correct it's website and internal system, thereby ensuring you still have warranty coverage and that don't get accused of an odometer rollback yourself in the future.

I'd think this could be resolved by giving the Chrysler rep the CarFax and putting them in touch with each of the relevant parties-->Fullerton, who may or may not have records reflecting mileage around 40k-->the auction house, who should have records reflecting the mileage upon intake-->Paramus, who obviously have records reflecting 40k. At some point, Chrysler should be satisfied and willing to fix their own records.

I can't imagine that a Chrysler rep wouldn't see your concern. Again, all you want is to have Chyrsler's own records reflect accurate mileage and avoid being accused of a rollback in the future. Not only may you be denied an important warranty issue in the next few months, but you could conceivably find the Jeep "unsellable" a few years from now--especially if CarFax picks up on the discrepancy and forevermore pops up a claimed odometer issue with this Jeep.

Unless you truly think you've been defrauded, that's really all that matters.

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Old 03-07-2011, 12:34 PM   #33
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that's my point. It would difficult for a lawyer to prove the fraud, because the dealer would simply say that it was an error due to fat fingers...
That's not true. If fraud occured (and that's a big "if," remember, it's probably a typo), then it would be readily provable in several ways.

First, the local DMV might be able to identify the prior owner that sold to Fullerton. That person could swear to their recollection of the odometer reading at the time of the transaction. This could probably be accomplished before filing suit.

Second, a lawsuit against everyone at each step of the process (Fullerton, auction house, Paramus) would provide access to Fullerton's (and everyone else's) documents. Fullerton's docs would include those from when the prior owner traded-in or sold to Fullerton. Those docs would reflect odometer readings.

Third, if all of Fullerton's docs reflect 60k, then next up is the auction house. See what their docs say about mileage. Next is Paramus, and that's the end of the line.

Somebody's docs would show when and how both the 60k and 40k numbers showed up, and the result would likely be pretty telling. Particularly if somebody in the chain was able to pay for a vehicle with 60k miles but sell a vehicle with 40k miles.

For example, if 60k showed up on all the trade-in paperwork, but yet the auction house paperwork all showed 40k, that sure looks like fraud by Fullerton. By contrast, if both the trade-in paperwork and the auction hose paperwork show 40k, a typo by Fullerton in the interim looks more likely. Or if both the trade-in and auction paperwork shows 60k, but Paramus shows 40k, then it would look like fraud by Paramus. Etc.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:04 PM   #34
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Holy crap . . . all this over a simple typo Dude . . . relax & take a deep breath . . . you weren't scammed, the sky is not falling, and while the world is quickly coming to an end . . . this is not a sign of the end days. Consider the effort, risk, and payoff for them to roll it back and get real. Go out and enjoy your new Jeep and stop worrying about this nonsense.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:05 PM   #35
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Just wanted to add that a dealership would not mess with an odometer. The amount of money they would be fined by the state, the court case and the bad press would stop them from even thinking about rolling back an odometer. Plus if Chrysler ever found out they were doing that, then Chrysler would pull all of their warranty work in the service department, making it really hard for the dealer to make any money.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:11 PM   #36
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Just wanted to add that a dealership would not mess with an odometer. The amount of money they would be fined by the state, the court case and the bad press would stop them from even thinking about rolling back an odometer. Plus if Chrysler ever found out they were doing that, then Chrysler would pull all of their warranty work in the service department, making it really hard for the dealer to make any money.
Not to mention we are talking about them rolling it back a whopping 20K miles . . . not 200K . . . and we're talking about a late model Jeep worth less than 20K . . . not a 100K collectors classic car with all matching numbers, etc. If you worry this much about something this silly, I'd hate to see you after a one night stand!!!
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:13 PM   #37
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:25 PM   #38
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The fraud thing I just don't buy. I think it could be proven if it occured, but it's very unlikely that it occured at all.

Nevertheless, I do believe that it's worth the OP's time to get the typo straigtened out with Jeep. As mentioned earlier, he could run into warranty problems in the short term and potential resale problems in the long term.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:32 PM   #39
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I didn't read all the responses, but file a complaint with the BBB if you want to pursue it. It's the best way to get a good rep from Chrysler involved.

Before that I'd take it back to the dealer and see what they are willing to do to resolve it. More than likely they'll call the service department and get it resolved. Request something in writing from them stating that it was a type o and not mileage fraud though.

If you're that concerned about it, you probably have grounds to get them to take it back. Just make sure you act immediately, you only have a limited number of days.
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:34 PM   #40
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No lawyer is free or even willing to take a case like this. Additionally going to local lawenforcement is a waste of time as no crimminal act can be prooven, additionally enforcement action by the police against a delaership is highly unlikely if not impossible.

Collect the facts, all the facts and write a calm letter to the dealer, send it certified with return receipt. Copy Jeep, although they might not care about the second hand car part of the dealer, and the state consumer affiars dept. who will take months to review the case. Wait 15 days for a response and then get an estimation of the true value of car if the odometer was changed. The best place to get the dealer is in small claims court. Take the real value of the vehicle you have and subtract the value of the vehicle value of the vehicle with the lower mileage = your $ loss. Try to stay in small claims as the courts will take a sympathetic view of your plight. Going to a higher court involves lawyers and $$$. Hopefully the dealer will clear this mess up or offer some sort of compromise IF the mileage was indeed changed. It is a crime in NJ to alter an odometer but first it has to be prooven to be done intentionally. Excuse the typos but I am using my Blackberry.
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:50 PM   #41
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:48 PM   #42
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Holy crap . . . all this over a simple typo Dude . . . relax & take a deep breath . . . you weren't scammed, the sky is not falling, and while the world is quickly coming to an end . . . this is not a sign of the end days. Consider the effort, risk, and payoff for them to roll it back and get real. Go out and enjoy your new Jeep and stop worrying about this nonsense.
First of all I wanted to thank all of you for your well thought out advice.

And for those who think I am going out of my mind here, well, I didn't think that I was catastrophizing things. Considering how quickly everything happened I was just trying to blow off some steam and get some help.

Listen, we have 3 vehicles and i this was our first used car that my wife and I decided to get to beat on doing a little offroading, taking it kayaking and mountain biking-i wasn't expecting to baby this thing. As I said i don't even need warranty because I will lift soon. However, this was still a major purchase (we paid cash) and no one likes to feel like they've been dumped on, especially when you go through life by passing good karma to others.

Well, I just got off work and after thinking about things I think that I will gather the facts and wait for a phone call from the Case Management team.
Although some have suggested to press on hard and fast, I will save my energy and will try to work my magic on the phone with Chrysler.


On another note, I had no idea that Chrysler CS reps are so uptight about giving out info. She wouldn't transfer me to her super-stated that their protocol states that I will have to wait for a call back from the super.
Also she did not give me the contact info for my Regional VP.

It's a shame, because this is my first experience with a domestic mfr (yes I know who owns chrysler)
All of my recall and lemon law experiences with Infiniti, BMW and lexus were handled more swiftly and there was always an upper level supervisor ready to fight for me.
Just after this one conversation with Chrysler I got this feeling that they don't really care about their customers.

Enough of my rant, sorry-I talk for a living
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:32 PM   #43
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What about auto check. I think that's what ebay uses.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:50 PM   #44
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As some have mentioned, you have a digital dash, so there is no "rolling back" the odometer. You can replace the instrument cluster, though, and a dealer will change the mileage reading of the new cluster to match the actual mileage of the vehicle. An unscrupulous type could find a cluster in a junk yard with less miles and install it, and bingo, you've "rolled back" the mileage.
I'd investigate as much as you can yourself, and demand service records. If you find the trail of ownership goes through the normal chain of ownership (private party to dealer, dealer to auction, etc.) I doubt it has been rolled back.
I also don't see what an attorney could do for you, as it is a criminal matter that the law enforcement agancies will be reluctant to pursue, and it's difficult to prove in this case. Your new toy could be impounded as evidence until this is straightened out, and you're out the use of the vehicle and ultimately nothing happens. Your recovery of damages are limited if existing at all, and it's simply not worth it.
Plus, it's most likely a typo, and the lesson to be learned is that Carfax is worthless.
To determine mileage, look at wear items like the seats and drivers foot pedals. Crooks never change the pedals
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:20 PM   #45
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You need to file a lemon law suit with your states attorney general immediately.

If you need help feel free to message me, ive filed a ll suit against chrysler and won. I bet alot of people on here wouldnt be saying chill out if it was their jeep. Half these people cry cause their floorboards are wet and they are bashing you because you may have gotten screwed out of a year and a half of mileage on a jeep that you are still paying for. Dont listen to them, get the paperwork, and call your AG tomorrow.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:03 PM   #46
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born and raised in jersey. i know for a fact some dealerships, you may have heard of, katyees ford in butler, marrooon pontiac in wayne have been caught doing similar things. marroon no longer sells pontiac and kaytees dealer changed hands. both within 30 mins from 17. stuff happens. i wouldn't mess around, get this taken care of so all paperwork matches. if you don't, it will come back to haunt you at the time you go to trade it in. even junkyards want mileage verified.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:57 AM   #47
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born and raised in jersey. i know for a fact some dealerships, you may have heard of, katyees ford in butler, marrooon pontiac in wayne have been caught doing similar things. marroon no longer sells pontiac and kaytees dealer changed hands. both within 30 mins from 17. stuff happens. i wouldn't mess around, get this taken care of so all paperwork matches. if you don't, it will come back to haunt you at the time you go to trade it in. even junkyards want mileage verified.
Wow, Kaytees? Really? I used to know the owners.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:58 AM   #48
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You need to file a lemon law suit with your states attorney general immediately.
Lemom laws do not apply to used vehicles.
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Old 03-08-2011, 09:03 AM   #49
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Lemom laws do not apply to used vehicles.
Lemon laws do apply to used vehicles in some states. Assuming this was purchased in NJ, then you would be covered by the state of NJ Used Car Lemon Law (below). I'm not positive this issue would even be covered under a lemon law though, so this may be moot.

"The law covers passenger vehicles, purchased from a licensed dealer, which are seven (7) model years old or less. The purchase price must be at least $3,000 and the mileage must not exceed 100,000 miles at the
time of purchase. If your vehicle meets these requirements, the dealer is required to provide you with a warranty which shall at least have the following minimum durations:
If a motor vehicle has 24,000 miles or less on its odometer, the dealer must provide the consumer with a warranty for 90 days or 3,000 miles, whichever comes first.

If a motor vehicle has between 24,000 miles and 60,000 miles on its odometer, the dealer must provide the consumer with a warranty for 60 days or 2,000 miles, whichever comes first.

If a motor vehicle has between 60,000 miles and 100,000 miles on its odometer, the dealer must provide the consumer with a warranty for 30 days or 1,000 miles, whichever comes first."

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Old 03-08-2011, 12:59 PM   #50
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Lemom laws do not apply to used vehicles.
Some states protect consumers under "Lemon Laws" for both new and used vehicles, other states have consumer protection laws that cover used vehicles.

Either way, most states do not allow a dealer to sell "As Is", even though the sticker will say "As Is".

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