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Old 03-06-2011, 09:32 PM   #1
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So i bought a used '07 X and I think I was scammed, Need help

So I just purchased a used '07 X,

The carfax showed that everything was legit (esp the miles)

However, after creating a Jeep.com owner's account, i came up with some troubling information regarding mileage.



As you can see according to this report, the milage was rolled back. Whether it was a mistake or not I feel misled and worried.

What action can I take? Do you think they will purchase this car back, after all this is fraud we're talking about here.

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Old 03-06-2011, 09:37 PM   #2
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It was probably a fat finger, probably 43411.

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Old 03-06-2011, 09:58 PM   #3
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^^^what he said.

Seems more believable that it sat somewhere for two months and only put 200 miles on.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:08 PM   #4
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Where did you get it? What mileage does it show now? I bet you can verify the mileage from Fullerton Jeep on the phone.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:19 PM   #5
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Call Fullerton and ask them to verify against any service reports, maybe the techs do a hand written service report?
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:36 PM   #6
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Got it from Chrysler Of Paramus, Inc, mileage is 44k, so that corresponds to the very last service record on carfax and jeep.com
Ok so this is what i got from carfax.

08/16/2010 43,617 Auto Auction Sold at auction
in Eastern Region
Listed as
a fleet vehicle

This is a month after:
07-16-2010Fullerton Chrysler Jeep Dodge Corp63411
To me this signals that the odometer was spun back by whomever owned the vehicle before it was sold at auction.

I am definitely calling Fullerton for paperwork.

In the worst case scenario do you think that I can force the dealer to buy the car back, or will they simply say that since they were not involved in the fraud they don't owe me anything.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:41 PM   #7
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It depends on the state and the dealership, you have certain rights as a consumer. Just make sure you act quickly, because you will have a limited amount of time to act.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:55 PM   #8
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I also bet it was a typo
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:56 PM   #9
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TheHighLow - Yeah, try to get it resolved tomorrow. If Fullerton says it had 63,411 then talk with Paramus with the evidence. If Fullerton wonít tell you the mileage, then go to Paramus anyway and show them the mileage Service History. If you just bought it today, then I think they will be hard pressed to not take it back tomorrow. They may want to cut you a deal - give you some money back - which could work out if you like the Jeep. Whatever you do donít wait. The longer you have it the harder it will be to get rid of it or cut a deal and keep it.

Edit: As a side note. If the original driver drove 10,000 miles in 9 months, and drove the same amount over the time he owned it, then at 40 months there would be 44,000 miles or so on it - which would lean toward the fat finger option.
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:11 PM   #10
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I thought Carfax guarantees their results? Or they buy it back.
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:44 PM   #11
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I dont know if Carfax does or not, But you can trust Carmax, not carfax..
I have seen errors before with Carfax results.. look at the vehicle, have a mechanic look at it .. if it looks good go with your gut feeling or but new!!

anyway- congrats on your new ride !!!
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:29 AM   #12
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Rolling back an odometer is a crime in many if not all states.

This could all get interesting.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:12 AM   #13
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"Rollback" a digital odometer? Highly unlikely. Carfax is a total waste of money. It only shows the information put in and usually only when it changes hands.

Fullerton are the ones who sold it at auction because they last had the title. Fahgetabout it. It's NJ, no one would ever do anything crooked there.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
"Rollback" a digital odometer? Highly unlikely. Carfax is a total waste of money. It only shows the information put in and usually only when it changes hands.

Fullerton are the ones who sold it at auction because they last had the title. Fahgetabout it. It's NJ, no one would ever do anything crooked there.
ya, it seems that every service appt that was registered on jeep.com was not on Carfax. i can't wait until the service office opens.
If it is indeed a rollback i'll be sure to call Jeep Customer Relations as well.

Carfax shows a reading of 04/04/2009 29,391, then Jeep.com has 10/16/2010 63411
Now it is possible for some one to put on 33k miles in 15 months? Sure, heck I just put 30k in 18months on my other vehicle.
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:43 AM   #15
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Thats a pretty big typo. Whether it was as scam or a mistake, the guy who did it is an a55hole.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:00 AM   #16
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Either way the dealership doesn't want any bad press. If you feel they "misrepresented" the vehicle then they should want to make it right with you. Mention your "friend" at the local paper and how he would love a juicy story like "ODOMETER ROLL BACKS AT LOCAL CAR DEALERSHIP". ; )
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:20 AM   #17
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Just spoke with the service manager, he stated that since 9/11 he is not allowed to give out any records, this sounds BS. should I call Jeep Customer Relations or do they not get involved in issues like this, esp when the vehicle is past warranty.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:45 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHighLow
Just spoke with the service manager, he stated that since 9/11 he is not allowed to give out any records, this sounds BS. should I call Jeep Customer Relations or do they not get involved in issues like this, esp when the vehicle is past warranty.
Yeah, I'd elevate it. Chances are it's a typo and that can easily be answered by Fullerton if they'll just open their files.

This is very important however and must get resolved AND get fixed in Jeep's system.

An odometer rollback voids your entire warranty. That's clearly stated in your warranty booklet. Moreover, while I think it's probably a typo, there is actually some incentive for a rollback here. At 40k, there's still some warranty left; at 60k there's not. In other words, aside from just lower mileage, an auction house would have an additional incentive here to get it down to 40k.

Therefore, if you're going to keep this Jeep, it should ONLY occur if Fullerton can adequately explain the discrepancy and Jeep's website is corrected.

Present the print out from Jeep.com to Chrysler and seek assistance.
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:39 AM   #19
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Get Chrysler involved immediately. Yes that is BS about 9/11. You are "currently" the owner of the vehicle and as such are entitled to know the complete vehicle history and an explanation of any discrepancies.

If this turns out to be anything other than "fat fingers," I would be surprised. However the circling of the wagons and duck-n-cover by the service manager is very suspicious at best. He could just be lazy and not want to do his job as well.

Edit: When you do get in touch with Chrysler, ask who the regional VP is and get their phone number. You need someone at the dealership that is above the service manager to look into this as well. Inform Paramus you will be bringing the vehicle back and calling the local authorities for fraud, if they don't help you resolve this to your satisfaction. You want proof on paper and in Jeep's system of any mistaken entries or they give you back your money and unroll the deal in terms of any trade in.

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Old 03-07-2011, 09:12 AM   #20
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spoke with CS, she was helpless and very ambigious.
Interestingly, in Chrysler's system they do not have a record of the 43k service done at Paramus, their last record lists 63k.
She would not give me a phone # for regional VP nor would she transfer me to her supervisor. She said I have to wiat for a call back (1 business day). SHe also transferred the case to the case management team. At this point i am running out of steam. I'm going to call Paramus-the dealer where I bought the vehicle from and see what they say.

I feel like i'll be stuck with this car (i wish that it was fat finger)
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:18 AM   #21
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You are not stuck. You will get this resolved and it will be done legally. The person/s who will be hurt in the end will be the dealer and any involved in this. There are laws to protect you. However it now comes down to how much strength you have now and perseverance in getting it corrected. Good luck, keep us updated -
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:21 AM   #22
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Calling is great, BUT, they can always get rid of you on the phone. Take what you have to them in person and run it up the ladder to the GM of the dealership. Make them fix the situation, whatever the outcome. Keep your cell handy and the numbers to the local Sheriff's office fraud division, BAR, television station consumer's advocate department, BBB, etc etc on a sheet of paper they can clearly see when you lay it on the desk in front of them. Don't threaten them unless you have too. Just make the type big enough so they can read it and they will deduce your intentions.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:21 AM   #23
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I work for an instrument cluster manufacturer. A roll back is not as simple as it sounds. The only way would be an instrument cluster replacement, or to be done by the cluster manufacturer. If there is no record of cluster service, a typo is more likely.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:31 AM   #24
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If I get the cold shoulder from the dealer where I bought it from i have 2 options:
1. get a lawyer-anyone know if i have to pay upfront for services?
2. keep the car, it's out 3rd car-recreational vehicle (We'll prolly put 5k miles a year on it) so i can certainly eat the loss, but its the principle that makes me angry.

there is so much disconnect between Chrysler's records, carfax's records and Jeep.com's records, as well as the dealers that I can see this as a very time consuming process.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:48 AM   #25
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I'm also guessing a typo at the 7/16/10 service, but by digital dyslexia rather than fat fingering. Here's how I come to that conclusion....

By 12/8/07, the average miles/day is 37.4. Sounds normal. By 9/13/10, the average miles/day is 34.1. Sounds normal, and also pretty close to the first average. Using the 34.1 average miles/day figure, the estimated odometer reading on 7/16/10 would be 41608. So I'm guessing that the actual odometer reading on 7/16/10 was 41633, and that the service guy who punched it in, got the left and right sides of his key numeric keypad confused (hence the dyslexia), and punched in 63411 instead.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:55 AM   #26
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Quote:
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I'm also guessing a typo at the 7/16/10 service, but by digital dyslexia rather than fat fingering. Here's how I come to that conclusion....

By 12/8/07, the average miles/day is 37.4. Sounds normal. By 9/13/10, the average miles/day is 34.1. Sounds normal, and also pretty close to the first average. Using the 34.1 average miles/day figure, the estimated odometer reading on 7/16/10 would be 41608. So I'm guessing that the actual odometer reading on 7/16/10 was 41633, and that the service guy who punched it in, got the left and right sides of his key numeric keypad confused (hence the dyslexia), and punched in 63411 instead.
that makes a lot of sense.

Just got off the phone from the dealer where I purchased the car and the manager came off as very defensive (obviously) and stated that "Trust me the car has 44k miles.
He said that CarFax is king and every service should be in carfax, and he was surprised that the car was serviced at Fullerton.

Bottom line is that no party affiliated with this car has been helpful.

I am contemplating on getting a lawyer, but think that it is a waste of money. Because all Fullerton has to say is that it was clerical error. And if that is the case, obviously no one will want to buy it back.
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:00 AM   #27
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CarFax ONLY shows what was entered into their system...we bought a 94 Grand Cherokee Limited from a dealer that showed us the carfax and said the vehicle was owned by a 'little old lady' that drove it 'to church and grocery store' until she passed away and her son inherited it. Mileage seemed realistic for what it showed, and there was NO history of any damages...yet a body shop owner looked at it when he was here for something and spotted telltale marks of rear end damage. He was right-once we got it up on a lift...it had been backed into something at least twice and repainted and bondo work! So whoever did the work-DID NOT ENTER IT INTO CARFAX...I don't think bodyshops do that anyways! So you cannot believe CarFax. I asked at the jeep dealership when I bought my 03 rubicon for the COMPLETE printed history of my jeep and got all the records-showing the heater resistor had already been replaced twice...so it was done a third time 'under warranty'. Well worth the time to wait for them to print it all out. And this was AFTER 9-11 when I got the records.
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Old 03-07-2011, 11:32 AM   #28
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I agree with those who say it's a typo. It happens quite often. Definitely look into it and gather as much info as you can, speak with the GM at the dealership.

Carfax isn't a waste, but there are more and more problems. Example, appraised 05 minivan on 2/12. It came in on trade on 2/17. We ran a carfax on 2/12 no accidents, odometer issues, etc. We attach the Carfax to every used vehicle listing online, on 2/18 it says there was an accident. However the minivan was here did not leave the lot and no one hit it.
Not everything is reported to Carfax either. If I get into a fender bender with someone, and we don't get a police report there is no public info that Carfax can pull about it. A clean Carfax is great but always take the vehicle you are thinking about buying to a 3rd party mechanic. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 03-07-2011, 12:14 PM   #29
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I think it is just an error also. ALTHOUGH, if that was a scam,WOW! that would be a great lawsuit!!! Get yourself a quality plaintiff attorney and attack.

But not likely,


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Old 03-07-2011, 12:15 PM   #30
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a lawyer's first consult should be no charge. you can always check with dmv for the mileage they have listed and contact nj consumer affairs. i would also fill out a police report. i would also take copies of paperwork and police report and ask to see gm and owner. i would want my money back, as i wouldn't trust that the vehicle, who knows what else was doctored up.

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