Subaru AWD vs Wrangler - Jeep Wrangler Forum
Jeep Wrangler Forum

Go Back   Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK Jeep Wrangler Forum > JK General Discussion Forum

Join Wrangler Forum Today


Reply
 
Thread Tools

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on WranglerForum.com
Old 04-03-2014, 07:52 PM   #1
Jeeper
 
GreenMachine13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,214
Subaru AWD vs Wrangler

So I was watching this video and it got me thinking.

Essentially, they take a Subaru and simulate that it's on ice going up a hill. It was still able to climb even with only one wheel getting traction.

Subaru AWD vs. competitors - YouTube

Of course all of its competitors failed to make the climb.

So, I was wondering, do you think any of the jeeps - JK, TJ/LJ, YJ, CJ - without lockers could make the climb with only one wheel getting traction?

For fun, lets say that a rear limited slip is permitted but only one front wheel has traction (i.e. not on ice).

I know the JK has the BLD system, but would that be enough to get it up the hill?

What do you guys think?

GreenMachine13 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:15 PM   #2
Moderator

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
Sinister6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,671
Probably not...as explained the Jeep is technically asymmetrical drivetrain and when you look at the weight the jeep is very lightweight in the backend. The video was very informative and quite honestly really interesting... I would like to see how the Subaru compares to the Audi system.

FWIW, I will be buying a Subaru probably within the next 12 months & turning my jeep into a trail rig/toy. And in the winter 99% of the time I would choose the Subaru over the jeep. Unless it was extremely deep snow...

__________________
The Wolf is not concerned with the opinion of sheep.

MY BUILD: :
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f322/si...ad-235526.html
Sinister6 is online now   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:18 PM   #3
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,976
The jeep will have no problem with that particular test since it's a front/rear test...front tires on ice and rear tires on pavement. The wrangler has 50/50 power distribution through a locked transfer case (not a center diff) so it would have ample power to climb up. The wrangler will have a problem when it comes to left/right...if both left tires are on ice, without lockers, it will not climb.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:21 PM   #4
Jeeper
 
express_wagon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: South Shore, MA
Posts: 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
The jeep will have no problem with that particular test since it's a front/rear test...front tires on ice and rear tires on pavement. The wrangler has 50/50 power distribution through a locked transfer case (not a center diff) so it would have ample power to climb up. The wrangler will have a problem when it comes to left/right...if both left tires are on ice, without lockers, it will not climb.
It depends on how effective the BLD is at that point and not to mention LSD equipped wranglers may possibly make it up.
__________________
2014 JKS 6MT 3.73 285s Duratrac
express_wagon is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:21 PM   #5
Jeeper
 
GreenMachine13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
The jeep will have no problem with that particular test since it's a front/rear test...front tires on ice and rear tires on pavement. The wrangler has 50/50 power distribution through a locked transfer case (not a center diff) so it would have ample power to climb up. The wrangler will have a problem when it comes to left/right...if both left tires are on ice, without lockers, it will not climb.
The new JK "might" be able to climb with only one wheel with traction thanks to the BLD system but I'm not sure if it's capable enough or not...
GreenMachine13 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:28 PM   #6
Jeeper
 
Hokieneer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Wild and Wonderful WV
Posts: 904
4 low is a powerful thing I have done a fair amount of driving in snow and ice with jeeps. I have an Evo which has a dedicated set of snow tires and while the Evo does well I would choose my jeep every time. in 4 high i would say the Subaru and the jeep would be fairly even, the deciding factor would become the tires but all Wranglers have a 4 low setting, and that is a game changer, snow and ice have to be really bad to cause many problems in 4 low. I can not tell you how many times I have gone up and down ice covered hills with very few problems while other awd cars struggle and subaru does not have the low gearing which puts it at a disadvantage. also lockers are not a great idea to use in the snow and ice anyways unless you are hopelessly stuck.
__________________
The woods are lovely, dark, and deep, but I have promises to keep, and miles to go before I sleep, and miles to go before I sleep.
-Robert Frost
Hokieneer is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:29 PM   #7
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by express_wagon View Post
It depends on how effective the BLD is at that point and not to mention LSD equipped wranglers may possibly make it up.
For that particular test (incline+ice) I don't think BLD or LSD will cut it....that's in a lab. In the real world, it might.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:31 PM   #8
Jeeper
 
Slowstang305's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: South Florida
Posts: 472
Send a message via AIM to Slowstang305
This was a very informative video, thanks for posting it.
__________________
"Do not go where the path may lead, go instead where there is no path and leave a trail."

Slowstang305 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:31 PM   #9
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,976
I don't think a JK without lockers (even with BLD+LSD) could handle this test.

2010 Acura Winter Test Experience - YouTube
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:34 PM   #10
Jeeper
 
BonesBrigade's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 296
I had two Subaru Foresters in the past and they were absolute beasts in all kinds of weather conditions. I got stuck once when I tried to push it in very deep snow, but only when I tried to turn around. My wife says that Subaru's are for old people but I had one in my 20's and early 30's and really liked them.

That being said, I was more than impressed with my Jeep this past winter without having to put it into 4WD. The BLD is a very good system and I am pretty sure it would have no problem with the test as shown since the Jeep is inherently a REAR WHEEL DRIVE vehicle. Therefore, it wouldn't matter that the front wheels had no traction so long as the rear wheels did.
BonesBrigade is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 08:49 PM   #11
Jeeper
 
tab22092's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,564
A stock jeep would walk right through the first couple rounds of test but as for the one wheel claim i believe only a locked jeep could accomplish that. Makes me want to try though! Haha
__________________
2013 jk 6spd - 18/59 coils - PS BFH Trail Stinger - Teraflex Hinge and Carrier - Yukon 4.56 gears - Teraflex c gussets - Teraflex front axle sleeves - Alloy USA Ball Joints - Banks Monster Exhaust - JKS Quick Discos - Pro-Comp 7069's - Fierce Attitude 35's - MORE Oil Pan/Trans Skid - PS Bombshell Diff Covers - Rancho 7000 MT's
tab22092 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:00 PM   #12
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 104
I live in an area with deep snow. I've had two Subarus (forester and Legacy GT), also Q7 and plenty of experience with a 2012 Acura MDX.

Tests like the one shown are pure nonsense. REAL WORLD snow conditions with ice and deep snow come down to road height and traction. Once the chassis of the car is in the snow, you're done, unless you have dedicated snow tires that MIGHT help you to climb out.

Buying the Grand Cherokee overland with the air suspension and raising it to maximum height got us through snow and ice that the Subaru could not handle. Even though the Subaru had blizzaks it could not match the Jeep.

Meanwhile: Last week we had our last snap of snow and ice. My steep driveway had a inch of snow over pure ice. How slippery was it? Even with my cleats I fell down twice trying to walk up! But I backed my new Wrangler (in 4WD of course) out and it scooted right up with no drama.

My road was in poor shape and the Wrangler was as sure footed as the Overland, if not more so.


Robert
CaptRB is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:00 PM   #13
Jeeper
 
Commodore Perry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 366
Here's another good one, keep watching for hill climb test. Jeep locked would make it. Unlocked I doubt it.

__________________
"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads"
- Doc Brown, Back to the Future
Commodore Perry is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:09 PM   #14
Moderator

WF Supporting Member
::WF Moderator::
 
Sinister6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,671
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
I don't think a JK without lockers (even with BLD+LSD) could handle this test. 2010 Acura Winter Test Experience - YouTube
Impressive! Except for dealing with the extreme cold that's a heckuva job to have!!!!
__________________
The Wolf is not concerned with the opinion of sheep.

MY BUILD: :
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f322/si...ad-235526.html
Sinister6 is online now   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:20 PM   #15
Jeeper
 
Commodore Perry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by NFRs2000NYC View Post
I don't think a JK without lockers (even with BLD+LSD) could handle this test.

2010 Acura Winter Test Experience - YouTube
Didn't realize this had already been posted. Sorry for repeat.
__________________
"Roads? Where we're going, we don't need roads"
- Doc Brown, Back to the Future
Commodore Perry is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:26 PM   #16
Jeeper
 
rdg04578's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: northern maine
Posts: 589
I own both a Forester and a Rubicon and in winter driving the forester is always the first horse out of the barn. Subaru's 4wd system is one of the best when it comes to finding traction and I can tell you from first hand experience the Jeeps part time system can not be compared to the subaru's system--the jeep essentially works like (2)- two wheel drive systems with the tire with the least traction on the the front and rear axles spinning. Obviously weith the axles locked they would both spin with each wheel getting 50 percent of the power --however the jeep system does not compare the each wheel independently. The brake lock system tries to over come the slippage but it is not gonna work with 3 of the 4 wheels on ice. The subaru system as you can see is a full time 4 wheel drive system that evaluates each wheels traction to ensure that the wheels with traction are given power.
rdg04578 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:42 PM   #17
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Commodore Perry View Post
Didn't realize this had already been posted. Sorry for repeat.
Its all good. We're on the same page thought. The side to side torque distribution is what matters on tests like that, and the Jeep doesn't have that (unless locked.)
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:46 PM   #18
Supporting Member

WF Supporting Member
 
NFRs2000NYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: NYC
Posts: 6,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by rdg04578 View Post
I own both a Forester and a Rubicon and in winter driving the forester is always the first horse out of the barn. Subaru's 4wd system is one of the best when it comes to finding traction and I can tell you from first hand experience the Jeeps part time system can not be compared to the subaru's system--the jeep essentially works like (2)- two wheel drive systems with the tire with the least traction on the the front and rear axles spinning. Obviously weith the axles locked they would both spin with each wheel getting 50 percent of the power --however the jeep system does not compare the each wheel independently. The brake lock system tries to over come the slippage but it is not gonna work with 3 of the 4 wheels on ice. The subaru system as you can see is a full time 4 wheel drive system that evaluates each wheels traction to ensure that the wheels with traction are given power.
Subaru and Audi use a variation of the Haldex system, and they are indeed great, but according to everything I've been reading, the Acura system is superior. For an ON road application, I would take an AWD system over a 4WD, but for fresh deep snow and offroad, there is no comparison. My example for on road purposes...if I was driving during a snow storm in a subaru, I would have no problem going speed limit, but the wrangler ON the road in poor conditions requires more care.
NFRs2000NYC is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:51 PM   #19
Jeeper
 
Wheelerbob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Middle river, Md
Posts: 563
I dont want to sound like a **** but i could care less about these type of tests. I dont drive a stock wrangler so comparing a stock wrangler to a subaru is useless to me. When we had the snowmageddon storm a few years ago my 09 4dr wrangler with a 2.5 " lift and 33" mud countrys made it through 28" of fresh snow with no problem. Later on I took my wife to the local school to play in the parking lot that had not been plowed at all yet and made it through snow so deep it was coming over the hood, thats right the hood. I would like to see a subaru do that. I agree that subaru's awd may be superior in stock form but most of the people on this forum are not stock. Just my thoughts. Anyone know how much it would cost to get an outback on 35's...lol
__________________
13 2dr bright white Ruby
Poison spyder hood louver
2.5" teraflex BB
Teraflex axle mount rear track bar bracket
315/75/16 Fierce Attitudes MT on 16x8.5 Level 8 ZX
Sleeved and gusseted
Wheelerbob is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:55 PM   #20
yeah,,,, im that good

5-Year WF Supporting Member
 
panthermark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Chicago-land
Posts: 9,937
Images: 13
These have been posted before, but they are always good to see.

One of the bigger mistakes people make are thinking Wrangler's are great winter vehicles.

They are not...

They are great "drastic weather conditions" vehicles....

But for everyday winter driving, a good AWD system is far superior.
__________________
2013 Sahara Unlimited
Billet - Auto - 3.73 - Connectivity - Painted Hardtop - LSD - Remote Start - Saddle Leather - Side Airbags

I may mall crawl...but I look good doing it.....
panthermark is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 09:57 PM   #21
Jeeper
 
tab22092's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1,564
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
These have been posted before, but they are always good to see. One of the bigger mistakes people make are thinking Wrangler's are great winter vehicles. They are not... They are great "drastic weather conditions" vehicles.... But for everyday winter driving, a good AWD system is far superior.
Thats actually a great description lol
__________________
2013 jk 6spd - 18/59 coils - PS BFH Trail Stinger - Teraflex Hinge and Carrier - Yukon 4.56 gears - Teraflex c gussets - Teraflex front axle sleeves - Alloy USA Ball Joints - Banks Monster Exhaust - JKS Quick Discos - Pro-Comp 7069's - Fierce Attitude 35's - MORE Oil Pan/Trans Skid - PS Bombshell Diff Covers - Rancho 7000 MT's
tab22092 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 10:04 PM   #22
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,314
This is an old video and has been hashed out in the past. You aren't even comparing apples to Apple's. You are looking at an awd test. If a jeep is already in 4wd, it would walk up that ramp without so much as a pause. BLD is only a factor when you are t as talking about loss of traction of one wheel on the same axle.

Think of the Subaru as an automatic transmission verses the Wrangler as a manual transmission in regard to the 2 4wd systems.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 10:09 PM   #23
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by panthermark View Post
These have been posted before, but they are always good to see.

One of the bigger mistakes people make are thinking Wrangler's are great winter vehicles.

They are not...

They are great "drastic weather conditions" vehicles....

But for everyday winter driving, a good AWD system is far superior.
It is not better than a part time system that is engaged. You could consider it "better" in marginal conditions that don't really require 4wd ,
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 10:17 PM   #24
Jeeper
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 104
Guys...once the road is plowed pretty much ANY car with real snow tires can manage. My old minivan could do fine with good tires!

But when there's 10 inches and it's coming down hard (like it did many times this year) our Subaru was a dead duck.

Robert
CaptRB is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 10:28 PM   #25
Jeeper
 
GreenMachine13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,214
I love my wrangler but it would suck to be out climbed up a slippery dirt or muddy hill by a car when you're in a jeep wrangler!

GreenMachine13 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 10:32 PM   #26
Jeeper
 
HK_Runner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Ken Caryl Valley, Colorado
Posts: 2,288
I wonder how the Subaru system compares to the Torsen Center Diff my 4Runner has. It is a v8 with full-time AWD and 4Lo, but has a center diff lock. I truly wish I had not sold that reliable Subaru. While it did not have 4lo, it was so reliable, handled well, and was pretty fuel efficient. I love these ice tests, for some reason.
__________________
2014 JKU Rubicon- all white with tan leather

LOD front bumper, AEV rear bumper, TeraFlex tire carrier, Shrockworks sliders, Method Standard wheels, 35" MTR Kevlars, Englewood driveshafts, Synergy 3" Lift, Rancho 9000XLs, Artec truss, Teraflex C-gussets, Grabars, HotHead Liners, MORE dead pedal, Tuffy underseat box, Uniden 520 XL, 10lb CO2 tank...
HK_Runner is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 10:35 PM   #27
Jeeper
 
GreenMachine13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,214
Then again these guys tested wranglers in a previous video and Subaru in this one. The mis adventure: 2014 Subaru Forester off-road snowy Misadventure & Review - YouTube

Snow wrangler:
http://youtu.be/Pxt2-K5jfVY
GreenMachine13 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 10:35 PM   #28
Jeeper
 
Cdwright's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,252
We has one of the snowiest winters in IL history. With drifting, the jeep was a necessity or we would have been stuck for days. It went through 20" snow pretty easily.

Another reason I am very glad I got one.
Cdwright is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 10:36 PM   #29
The Bad Guy

WF Supporting Member
 
daggo66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: NJ exile living in Baltimore
Posts: 22,314
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenMachine13 View Post
I love my wrangler but it would suck to be out climbed up a slippery dirt or muddy hill by a car when you're in a jeep wrangler!

You're not understanding the concept. The Subaru is touting how it's system automatically transfers from 2wd to 4wd . With the Wrangler you would either already be in 4wd or you would shift into it.
__________________
Tom

"I've got two things in this world, my balls and my word and I don't break them for no one."
daggo66 is offline   Quote
Old 04-03-2014, 10:43 PM   #30
Jeeper
 
GreenMachine13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by daggo66 View Post
You're not understanding the concept. The Subaru is touting how it's system automatically transfers from 2wd to 4wd . With the Wrangler you would either already be in 4wd or you would shift into it.
Sorry, I was assuming the wrangler was in 4 wheel drive (high or low).

It comes down to open differentials and the ability of the wranglers BLD system being able to direct enough power to the only wheel with traction. I was just wondering if it could do it.

GreenMachine13 is offline   Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Download our Mobile App

» Network Links
»Jeep Parts
» Featured Product

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:18 PM.



Jeep®, Wrangler, Liberty, Wagoneer, Cherokee, and Grand Cherokee are copyrighted and trademarked to Chrysler Motors LLC.
Wranglerforum.com is not in any way associated with the Chrysler Motors LLC